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My 1st post, so the story could get long. I'll offer the condensed version.
My AW has been in & out of treatment for about 2 1/2 years. She's been active in AA when she wants to. She's been in intensive outpatient, 30 day inpatient, psychiatric hospitals (a few short stays), private counseling... she's run the gamut. I've participated in the associated family programs in the programs she's been in, and have been to a few Al Anon meetings, although I have to admit that I'm not really active with a group. Last year, after my AW relapsed for the millionth time, and was advised (by the counselors at her outpatient program) to go back to inpatient, she refused. That hit my last straw & I filed for divorce. I had decided that when it became apparent that she wasn't moving forward with her efforts, I had to depart (actually get her out). The frequency & severity of relapses were becoming dangerous for our young children and had obviously worn me out. Through a court order, I got her out of the house last year.
Since then, it has become very clear to me that I made the right decision. My life is very difficult, with a demanding job and 2 young children to raise without a functioning mother, but I'm very happy to have her out of the house. It still is a huge problem, though, because our children desperately want to see their mother, and I want them to also. When she's sober, she can be a great mother for our children. She relapses so frequently & severely, though, that I can't trust her in any way with the kids. I still have to communicate with her often, so that I can try to tell when she's sober enough to be safe visiting with the kids.
It is this contact with her that is really straining things. When she's drinking, she turns away from all of her friends & family, and will only talk to me. She continues to say that she'll stop drinking if I stop the divorce (I know this is OBVIOUSLY not true!) I'd rather not have to talk to her at all, but I'm not convinced that anyone else can tell the way I can when she's drinking, and I have to know when it's ok for the kids to see her.
What do I do? My conversations with her are bad for me, and I think bad for her, too, as she isn't turning to her appropriate resources (sponsor, AA, real treatment, whatever) as long as she can talk to me - it seems to be keeping up her hope that she & I can work things out in our marriage. I think she's really convinced that she'll be better if our family can be together the way "it used to be". I don't think I can simply keep the kids away from her for weeks on end, so I don't know how to curtail our communications.
Hello and welcome to MIP - your first priority is the saftey of your children and you are certainly aware of that- thru the courts u can set up supervised visits once u site your concern about her alcoholism which is well documented thru the treatment centers etc that u described in your post . Please go back to meetings for yourself , u need support . You have to deal with her for the rest of your life because of the children so learning how to do that respectfully and with out resentment will be good for both of you . Your kids will be fine one sane parent goes along way towards healing . One of the ways I enabled was to continually have those little chats u described I would leave feeling hopeful that things would change , he would not remember the talk at all . The last time this happened I simply said I am sorry u keep doing this to yourself and walked away , leaving the problem with him where it belongs . The only way I know how to support the alcoholic in my life is to get my own program , learn all I can about this disease and how not to let it run my life .. find meetings that work for you ( some areas have day time meetings ) lunch bag meetings we call them here get a sponsor and take care of your children and yourself.
Abby made a good suggestion with usign the cout system to help you set up visitation. It really worked for me.
I just completed the divorce process last month. I can totally relate to the calls being bad for both of you. I really do not enjoy talking to my ex, in fact it is very difficult for me to do so. He is very angry and hurt that I ended things. I try to stick talking about the kids and when the conversation starts to stray from just the kids I reel him back to just the kids.
Going to more meetings and getting a sponsor can really help give you the support you need. My alanon family has really been a support for me and has helped keep me strong and focused on myself.
My home has a lot of serenity now. The kids and I have a routine and I like it. Working full-time and being a single mom without support is hard, but the movement forward I have been making is so rewarding. I am also showing my kidos that the years of chaos in their short little lives is not normal and not what life is supposed to be.
Keep making good choices for you and your kids.
I hope you keep coming back.
Yours in recovery, Mandy
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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
You have proven you already have courage and strength by making a boundary and decision that the AW must leave the home for your sanity and the sake of those children, who deserve to be safe.
My brother was married to an A for 23 years and she took their children on many a scary rides in the car. Im also divorced from the Ah that I was married to for 26 years. My brother is also divorced from the AW, but after the children were past 21. I dont know how he did it for so long. One of the kids, well he is not a kid anymore, the son is also an A and has had over 3 DUI and recently lost his job. Its all so tragic this disease.
Isnt it funny how the addicts promise that they will stop if you take them back, but never stop drinking to show us some hope that they are recovering, because Im sure even if you are filing for divorce, you would like to see your x aw sober, for the sake of your children. After all she will always be their Mother. Please keep coming back and share your strength and hope and keep the f2f meetings up as much as you can. They will be the light to strengthen your courage. Wishing you all the best. Bettina
Thanks to all of you for your quick replies. While it feels like I'm the only person in the world with this problem, I know I'm not & it helps to hear what others have done & said.
I know that AW needs to get back into treatment (probably 4 month residential at this time), but she's decided to only do it "her way". That involves going to AA when she wants to, but hiding out on her own when she doesn't, since "those people" will just tell her to stop drinking. She's also caught up with a psychiatrist who doesn't seen to believe in alcoholism as a disease. He keeps telling her that when they find out what painful event from her childhood makes her want to drink, they can figure out how to stop drinking. He really seems to be full of Freudian baloney.
Those are my thoughts, but it does me no good to share them with AW. I really do want her to get better, so our kids can have a mother, but we're a long way from that...
Myself I would not want the courts involved. They have no idea if the A is using, once the visits are set up, they don't care.
Even with supervised visits, the kids can be exposed to things I would not approve of. Also the experiences I have seen they A does not show up.
Sadly the A person is the one who has to do all the rehab work and decisions to change as best they can.
I sure do understand the kids want to see the A parent. Myself I made the choice to never stop the A from seeing mine. But when he came over and caused a huge drama, I got a restraining order. We did not see him for ten years. My kids were much better for it.
Then what do I do? I see he is sober for years and allow him to woo me for a long time and marry him....now almost divorced.
Anyway the kids will look to you to be strong, happy and secure. Making your family a good family. They just need to hear you love mom, mom is sick. I learned not to answer as to how she feels as that is up to her.
Did not help my kids to hear it from me.
Maybe you can be frank with her, set up a certain day and time for the visit in a park or something. With you near by. If she shows great, if not have a second plan for you guys to do. Not making a big deal out of it.
Glad you are here. love,debilyn ps it helps the kids to get love and attention from other family and your friends too.
I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. I've been sep from the A for 18 mos. I have no idea if he's active or non-active. There are times when I see him and he's sober. Though, even when he's sober, there are still many "isms" that make relating to him very difficult and hard to sort through and form some sort of reasonable relationship. Things get very cloudy when we talk or spend any time together.
I can very much relate to wanting so badly for the other parent to step up to the plate and have a normal relationship with their children. I can also relate to the apprehension to just hand over the kids, without having input on that relationship. I have a six yr old son and there are many things that I don't trust about the A in his ability to keep everyone safe and okay. I still suspect that A is using at times when I am not around. And this explains my difficulty with allowing overnight access etc. We have not at this point sought legal counsel. Lucky for me A has not fought me on any of my boundaries (as weak as they can be some times) that I have put in place when it comes to his spending time with his son. My A knows that he "has me right where he wants me". In that I grew up without a Dad and it was/is very important to me that my son never know what that is like. This motivates me to give way to much to facilitating their relationship I think. This became most clear when the other day out of frustration I mentioned to my A about wanting to pack everything up and move myself and our son back to my roots 4 hrs away. The A openly and willingly gave me permission to do what makes me happy. I was shocked. For the past year I've had this on my mind, wanting and needing to be close to "my" people. I've ruled that option out because A and our son would not be able to have a relationship at all living 4 hrs apart. I was shocked that A was so willing and cavalier about it. This reinforced that the relationship that the A has with our son is much more important to me, than it is to him. Another hard pill to swallow, especially when I look into the eyes of my brilliant and exhuberant little life lover of a 6 yr old boy! I cannot fathom being that detached. I remind myself it's the disease, albeit very very sad.
I knew I was a codependent enabler when I got here bc I put up with A's my entire life (gorwing up in that household). I had to face what was in me, that was allowing myself to be so open and also hurt by them. I am hearing u say that the conversations arent "good" for you with her ~ I suggest u do find a group to get active with and go often, listen and learn about the disease (hers and yours) and how u can cope and change. For me it was all about boundaries and learning that I can have emotional boundaries (and other kinds) to protect myself with when I am faced with abuse/mistreatment of any kind.
When I follow through on my boundaries, I also gain self respect and some emotional and healthy detachment from their issues, challenges, problems, feelings, manipulative games. This allows me to focus on me and what I am doing in my life and not what they are doing or how I can help change them.
A's are great actors and are used to being Master Manipulators - they want what they want, when they want it. Its all they seem interested in.
Practise excersizing boundaries when ur talking to her and remove yourself when you need to. Listen with your eyes and watch the behavior, dont belive all the flowery words/promises. I really hope u get support, this disease is insidious and we are a part of it too, learn how ur contributing and how u can change and life will be much easier to handle.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
((( Rora ))) A's are completely & utterly emotionally unavailable, I wouldnt confuse healthy and loving detachment with what they do (emotional unavailability) - its thoroughly different. They miss out on so much in life, it is their choice. I no longer feel pity for them like I once did, I now know it isnt about a judgement call being good or bad, thier lives and ours are merely a consequence of the choices we make.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Count yourself as blessed. I'd love to be in your shoes!
I have two friends who had AW, and it cost them each over $25k to keep the kids, and that's with AWs that clearly should have been institutionalized!
The problem w/ alcohol is denial. I've heard and read so many times "you are trying to make me look like an Alcoholic and I'm not!" AW believes the kids would be better with her than me. She doesn't even realize she's yelling at them constantly (but points to it when I slip up and do so) and apparently doesn't think being gone for days is bad for the kids. Just doesn't see it.
The other problem is the court system. Men are in a bad position; particularly in some states. Slightly off topic, in family court for another reason, I watched a judge hand a child back to a woman who had(?) been on crack and imprisoned, got out, and had just missed her most recent pee test and parole meeting! I don't blame the woman, it's the judge that is a crack addict!
Alanon doesn't say much about children, but there's enough to point the way. Discovering Choices has a few elements, and even ODAT mentions kids a few times. The message is: kids come first- even before your recover efforts. There are things you'd do if the kids weren't in the picture; but they are, so it's a different picture.
I like what the others wrote before me. You can give kids access to mom without enabling her- YOU can set boundaries, and if she steps outside YOU have to take further action.
Hope you get it all figured out....I'm going to need your help soon!
-- Edited by CJ recovery on Sunday 11th of April 2010 03:50:22 PM
Oh, CJ, my attorney's fees are more than that & we have a long way to go! Soon to be ex-AW's alternating bar tabs & rehab expenses are also paid by me! The $$$ is just another frustration I'm learning to deal with. At this point, at least I rest assured that the kids are well cared for. While I know that I'm doing everything to be certain that they only visit their "A" mother when she'd not drinking, and then only with supervision, it still is a huge stress to have to constantly be on guard, so that I can swoop in & take care of the kids if I need to. On the other hand, I'm no longer rushing home from work to "rescue" AW from a crisis every few days. I gave that up last fall, & I'm much better for it.
I cannot fathom being that detached. I remind myself it's the disease, albeit very very sad.