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Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Got roped again
Post Info TOPIC: Got roped again
Aloha


~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 1652
Date:
Got roped again
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It's been a while since I've posted here. My sponsor, god bless her, isn't available for a phone call, though I did call another member and chat for a while... feel a little better but I know my mind and I know my head's going to chew on this for a good deal of time.

And it ticks me off because it's the evening and this is the time I need to be getting ready for bed, relaxing and getting a good night of sleep.

My AH knows how to rope me in, and I realize he's very good at finding where I'm insecure and using that against me.

One of my biggest self-doubts is that I'm a selfish, self-centered person who is unwilling to be helpful.

Well, that's what my AH certainly works at convincing me of. And 8 times out of 10, I usually buy it.

His daughter moved in with us over a year ago - she turned 18 less than a week ago. She does not have a car or a driver's license. It was a decision she made when she first moved out here because state laws required that she take a $400 driver's ed course in order to get her license if she was under 18. She decided she didn't want to pay, so dad decided it was our (his and my) duty to shuttle her around everywhere. Not having had kids ever, I figured that would be somewhat doable.

Today she wanted a ride to and from work. Her work is about a mile away. That's it.

I usually give her rides, but today I just really was not in the mood so told her "no, you can ride your bike". She got upset and told me "But my dad said you would give me a ride!" She was supposed to be to her work in about 5 minutes. I told her she should know better than to just take her dad's word for it, because this happened once in the past already where he said I'd be available to give her a ride and I wasn't. I caved and gave her a ride, but told her she needed to get her own way home. And in the car on the way to her job, I told her "You are 18 now. I expect you to get yourself a car by the end of May. There's no excuse anymore for why you shouldn't have a car and a driver's license now." I explained to her it would be in her benefit as she will no longer be in a place of being at the mercy of people who she depends on for rides. She seemed to get it. She walked home after work and she seemed like she was in an all right mood when she got home.

Her dad came home later after working and I think she somehow mentioned in passing that she'd walked home from work this afternoon. I don't think she had malicious intent - she's not someone who plays people against others - I've never seen her behave like that since she's lived with us.

Irregardless, it's not step-daughter who's upset. It's AH.

Now, I have to remind myself that my AH has no concept of the term "self-supporting". He depends upon people's generosity in many situations and has decided to martyr himself by being the dad who ALWAYS gives his daughter a ride someplace, even if it's within reasonable walking distance.

This is NOT how I grew up - I wanted a ride to the store down the street? "You an walk." My parents didn't always do this to me, but they did it enough for sure that I was damn determined to get my drivers license by the time I turned 16.

I forget, too, that my AH grew up in an alcoholic household, and his mother, bless her heart, ALWAYS dropped what she was doing to give her kids rides all over the place. Yes, she is a prime enabler in his life. I hate saying that because she is such a sweet woman, but it is the truth.

Anyhow, AH got mad at me and threw out at me what he knows hurts me and gets me best: insinuations that I'm unhelpful, selfish and rude.

I tried explaining my stance to him calmly at first, getting nowhere, of course - his always coming back with "well I would do it for her!" Told him I don't want to talk about it anymore, but by this time I'm just fuming MAD.

He leaves, slamming a door and I just get pissed and go to the bedroom. He comes in after me maybe 5 minutes later and of course we get nowhere with this discussion. I tried once again telling him how much I DO help (and I help a lot!), but it's not good enough for him... so I told him "Okay, whatever you want. I'm your slave. I'll do whatever you tell me to do. Does that make you happy? Even though you know I'm not happy?"

His answer is "Well, I'd be happy with it if you didn't have an attitude about it."

I told him "Tough, I'm GOING to have an attitude about it, because I feel I'm being forced."

He left the room after that, and that's when I picked up the phone and called someone.

I recognize that I'm trying to set boundaries and I'm not being very successful at it. Of course, that's why I'm in Al-Anon's rooms - I've had a long life growing up not understanding how to set boundaries and stick with them successfully.

I know I'm going to have to bring this up and discuss this with him. Actually, I should bring her out and have her sit with me to discuss it, too - hell, she plays a part in this. But I'm just sick of doing what I can for her within reason and being told it's not enough.

UGH. All this over a freaking 1-mile walk in beautiful Hawaii weather.

This disease grabbed me good tonight.

Thanks for listening.


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Mattie


~*Service Worker*~

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This is a tough situation, and I could see problems like this arising even if there weren't an A in the picture.

It seems to me there are problems with expectations.  The daughter doesn't know what to expect -- her dad seemed to lead her to believe that someone would be willing to take her to work and other places, but he didn't get it clear with you and you both didn't figure out an agreement you both could get behind.  And I'm hearing that you have some resentment toward the daughter for not wanting to take the $400 course and get her license.  I was a frugal teenager too, so I can sorta see her reasoning on this, especially because it's hard for kids to see that driving people places is trouble. 

In my time I've had a lot of unclearness about what it's fair to expect of me and when it's fair of me to draw a boundary and say I'm not willing to do something.  And then I've gotten mad and flown off the handle when people asked what I thought was too much of me, because I hadn't learned to calmly set a boundary first.  I was just relying on them not asking.  But they didn't even know they were't "supposed" to ask.  Learning when and how to draw a line has been so hard.  I certainly wasn't raised with the skill.  I guess it comes down to "Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean."

I hope you can continue to take care of yourself.



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Bettina


~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 1744
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Aloha, sorry your feeling so unsupported by your ah and your step daughter.

It doesnt sound like such a big deal problem, but when you think about it, it is, because your not setting the boundary for yourself for some reason that only you will know and also the step daughter is not being taught responsibility for her own life.

I see it as your ah just running his game and you buying into it,  because maybe you dont want to look like the bad guy. All it will do is build your resentment and you will become unhappy with yourself.

Stick to your guns Aloha, she is 18 years old and capable of getting up on time to make the time for that one mile walk. Let the ah drive her if he is so set on not letting her walk. Wishing you strength and courage. Luv, Bettina

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Bettina
lacewing


Veteran Member

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Posts: 97
Date:
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I too, am experiencing the exact same issue with my daughter.  She is going to be turning 20 years old this coming May.  At Christmas time of 2008, my parents bought her a used car as a gift...she cried - such a wonderful gift from them to her.  We live in the 'boondocks'...walking distances can be anything from 5 miles or more - a car is absolutely essential to living here - and for a teenager, it is something that is always an issue - getting rides, getting home..planning for what is necessary.

This weight has been on me since my separation/divorce from My active A.  When we were together, we shared this.  When she wanted to sleep over/visit with friends - we drove her.  When she wanted to go to football games, the movies, the shopping plazas - we drove her.  At the time, she and her friends were too young to not only have a car, but have a drivers license - and the cost to attain either is astronomical.  We didn't have the money to help her in either situation, so we 'did what we had to do'...even rides to and from school (over an hour away) when she missed the bus, or no bus was available (depending on what school she went to - our hometown did not have a high school).  It was us that did this...then it became Me that did this.

Now, having a car seemed to be ONE answer to the situation.  The problem then turned to Fear of driving (some friends NOW have cars and a license to drive, but as all teenagers find out - 'fun' in a car can cost money out of pocket...accidents, speeding tickets...etc)...and not wanting/having the money to actually going to drivers education classes.  She is working now, I still drive her back and forth.  I am tired...It helps me remember there is a world outside - but enough is enough. 

I chose to politely remind her, she has her own car now...if she chooses NOT to get her drivers license..I will continue to drive her to work, to friends...to whereever - but it will be in HER car...using Her gas, with proper insurance and maintenance costs coming from Her pocket.  This was not negotiable - she remained angry at me for a long time because I was driving HER car - a few arguements continued when I went to run errands using her car, instead of driving her to where ever her destination was..bring her car home, only to 'exchange' myself from her vehicle to mine - to run these errands.  She didn't like this at all - but it has not forced her thoughts to getting her license and taking drivers ed. classes.

Thus, I had to take yet another stance in giving her the choices that work better for me.  Tough love, they call it.  In November - after struggling with moving/cleaning off two vehicles for snow removal, and weather complications...I gave her the choices I saw as a resolution to my troubles.   I gave her a deadline....specifically,  'I am giving you until May for you to set your priorities in line, you have a car, you have a job, you have responsibilities....I strongly suggest you set yourself up with Drivers Ed. classes.  I will not 'teach you how to drive your vehicle until it has insurance (we have to drive with our kids for a minimum of 30 hours before they can get their license where we live)...I will not put you or myself in jeopardy by one or both of us getting hurt while teaching you to drive without this in place.  You have until May for you to schedule these classes for your license.  Come June 1st - I will not be your personal taxicab any further. 

She now is faced with her own choices...she has the vehicle, she has to have insurance being a new driver (Insurance is an option in this state with the exception of new drivers)...she has time to take classes...she is just convinced that when she is in need, she will get the ride she requires.  I have reminded her a few times that MAY is not so far away, and license/driving classes take time ...she gets angry...yet still has not set up appointments to do all this.  She knows the deadline...she knows the consequences...she may test me to see how I will react if that deadline comes and she has not set herself up to this expectation...we will see.

Tough Love - and kind offerings of ultimatums, choices, decisions and 'stick to-it-ive' on my behalf...gently teaches her that age is inevitable...but maturity and responsibility is earned, respect and working at goals wanted - is not always easy...but in HER best interest...it is a growing/learning experience. 

Set boundaries, offer choices, clearly indicate what you are and are not willing to do...and hope they can grow with the choices set forth for them to choose for themselves what is best...

We can lead with compassion, love and experiences...or lead with demands, anger and frustration...I find giving her all options - good and bad, allows her to find her own choices and learn from her own mistakes, One situation at a time.

I wish you luck - it is not easy to let go...especially when we love them - but, love and offering a hand - and holding on too tightly...sometimes gives them the belief that we will always be available...and we cannot be - forever.  We just have to find the balance to allow them to make their own mistakes and choices...and learn from the results and repercussions.



__________________

...He compared his weathered hand to mine and said, ...
GROWTH OF THE MIND AND HEART are the best offers you can give. my Grandfather (Keeper of Stories), to me

Aloha


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 1652
Date:
Permalink  

Thanks, everyone, for your replies.

I'm practicing pausing here before I take any further action or have any further discussions on this. As we all know, with alcoholism, timing is everything, and a real discussion on this may not be feasible for several days or even several weeks.

I have sat and thought about this some more.

I know in my hear that it is not that I am unwilling to be helpful - but I am not willing to be at her beck and call each and every time she needs a ride, especially when her destination is so close.

I need to discuss with my husband AND her that if they're volunteering me to give her rides, I need to be brought in on the discussion first. No one should just assume it's going to happen just because they want it.

I do feel strongly that giving her rides everywhere - even when it's a place within walking distance - only teaches her to depend on others. It will be crucial for her to learn to be self-supporting - our Seventh Tradition - in order to make it in the world. I am particularly concerned for her about this reliance on others because she has a history of getting into controlling, manipulative relationships - where the guy sets her up into a situation where she can't take care of herself and she becomes dependent upon him.

I recognize, too, that her father has a lot of guilt he's trying to address with his daughter. He's only had her living full-time with us for the last year. Before, she always lived with her mom on the mainland and the only times he'd see her is if he flew her out to visit or if he'd flown out there to visit. I think he feels somehow that dropping everything and hauling her all over town is making up for his lack of being there for her in the past. The thing is, that's HIS guilt, not mine. I feel he's projecting it on me because he promised her without asking me first about the ride, and now he likely feels HE let her down but instead of taking responsibility for not checking with me first, he lashes out at me over it.

The reality of it is, though, that she is 18 now - she is no longer required to take the $400 driver's ed course. She can apply for a license without taking the course. So there is absolutely no excuse for her to not get on top of it. I only see self-doubt and lack of motivation as her reasons for not taking care of it. My not always being available for rides may give her some motivation - and I can certainly talk with her soothingly to see if she's scared for any reason about getting a license and see how I can help her with her feelings and self-confidence.

But her father, though, is another matter. He keeps telling her he's going to help her buy a car. Dad's broke and even in collections. Of course he's not going to be able to help her purchase a car. She's been working part-time since November and has been saving some of her money - she should be able to save a good deal of money between now and the end of May if she puts effort into it, and I know she's capable, as she's saved $1000 in the past. She shouldn't sit around waiting for Dad to do it, but I'm sure that now he's put that in her head, she's going to be content to sit and wait for him to tell her HE's ready to help her buy a car.

Anyhow... that's beside the point. What am I going to do about it knowing how they both are.

I tell them I will help when I can, which will be quite often, but they need to respect and accept "no" as an answer on the few occasions I either can't or just won't do it.

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saltire


Member

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Posts: 12
Date:
Permalink  

hello Aloha
I remember reading a similar post about enabling last year and yeah you got it - I was doing the enabling too and probably still am but it's like the title of your thread - they do rope us in by their devious ways and leaves us feeling like mugs when the penny drops that they roped us in once again - the other replies are good advice, so I hope I can learn from them too.
x

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best wishes,
Saltire.
www.videocodezone.com/videos/e/eagles/one_day_at_a_time_live.html
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