The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
So things have actually been good for a few days. Husband and I had a great heart to heart a few days ago and really felt a deep connection with each other. I did ask that if he has anything to drink to please not come home, and he said well what if I only have one, I just repeated myself. I do not want him here for our children to see if he is under the influence of anything. So like I said the past couple of days have been good but this morning, I just had that feeling and sure enough he came home under the influence. He is not drunk, but by looking at him I would say he has had a couple. So I have turned the other cheek, instead of my usuall prying and suspicious questions, I left it alone. I feel hurt and am trying to just let go, but am finding it hard. How do I not say anything, he is not drunk, but he has used alcohol and I can smell pot on him, I was clear, so don't know what to do or say. Any advice would be great on how to go about setting clear boundries and what kind of consequence there should be, as I am so done with nagging.
Boundaries are tough things, but they need to have clearly identified consequences.... and they need to be for you.... I'm not sure that a boundary for an alcoholic to "not touch a drop" is realistic, but if it is indeed the boundary that you want/need, then the only think missing is the consequences for when he doesn't meet this criteria.....
Take care Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Hi, the boundry isn't don't touch a drop, because now I know I can't put that on him, basicly the boundry is I don't want him to come home if he has had any, so I guess that can be perseived as don't touch a drop, but really it isn't if he chooses to drink he can do it somewhere else and stay there, and I don't even know what kind of consequence to put in place. So is this an un realistic boundry? In the big picture-in the long run, the consequence is that if things keep going the way they have been going, our marriage will be over and he will loose so much. I am so confused right now, letting go is so hard.
I don't think I am in any position to help whether or not your boundary is realistic or not.... Look for a recent post by Kitty, where she gives several great guidelines for setting boundaries.... I guess I'd just encourage you to do some research (soul searching and/or reading up on boundaries), figure out exactly what you are willing (and unwilling) to put up with, and then ensure there are clear consequences for failure to do so....
As an example... if my boundary for my A is that "you must be actively involved in your recovery and attend AA a minimum of 3x per week", and failure to do so would cause me to begin the process of separation... and then my A chooses not to attend AA at all..... then I need to follow through on what I said I was going to do (if I don't mean it, don't have it as a consequence).
It's not easy..... I'm glad you're here, and you'll get tons of support and ES&H on here..... Keep coming back
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I think it depends on what you mean by "unrealistic." Do you mean, is it unrealistic of you to think that that's a reasonable requirement for a good relationship? (I don't think so at all, myself.) Or is it unrealistic of you to expect it of him? (I would think so.) But should how you live your life be decided by what he decides to do?
My ex promised never to drink in my presence and never to have been drinking in my presence. As they say, "How do you tell when an alcoholic's lying? His lips are moving." That's what they do. They make promises they can't keep, and lots of times they make promises they never intend to keep. The alcohol has made them insane and they don't put it all together and see how weird it is.
So if you knew he were not going to stop coming home having drunk a few beers, what would you do? Would you draw the line for your own self, in some way; or would you decide to let it go? I think that may be the question for you to get clear on before you decide what to do next.
Aloha Maple...one of the things I learned and use to teach about boundaries is if you are going to go thru the exercise of building them and mentioning them and discussing them they have to be inforcable. If they are not inforcable don't go thru the exercise because two things happen when they are not. One is that you get to feel what you are feeling now...confused and powerless and the other is that the alcoholic knows another line in the sand that he can cross.
Being under the influence doesn't mean having alcohol in him. It could mean that he is planning and focusing on his next drink or in this case toke. When I learned that the disease is one of the mind, body, spirit and emotions I then got a pretty good handle on what "under the influence is". By the way there is a great paper back book with that same title which was one of my college texts. Look it up.
So having said what I just did and understanding that the alcoholic and addict affect everyone they come in contact with; is it not also true that at this point you are also under the influence?
He loves his drink and smoke more than life itself. You are powerless over this disease and your management style won't work...it never has; millions of others have tried it also and failed while millions of others are also trying it now. Accept powerlessness. If he agreed that he would not step into the house while under the influence then it is his responsibility to honor that and respect the family. If he drinks he needs to be somewhere else; his decision.
When I finally said stop to my Alcoholic wife she continued to tell me, "but you always did it that way." (giving in and fixing) My response became, "I understand what I used to do and I am not doing that now." There are consequences for both the alcoholic and the spouse of an alcoholic when the spouse changes. You also have to accept consequences for your changing.
Keep coming back. Biting your tongue is painful. Don't add to what you already have. (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 10th of March 2010 12:56:10 AM
Hi MM. I had a similar scenario with my Ason (hes 33) over Christmas.We had asked him to leave a couple of months prior to that, the consequence of boundaries being ignored.
He had been at home with us for a few months after going through a detox and short rehab. We discussed boundaries with him before we allowed him home, what they would be, why they were being placed (our safety and serenity) and what the consequences would be if they were pushed or ignored. He had a choice as to what he wanted to do, he agreed with the boundaries and he chose to come home. Sadly after a few months he went back drinking and within the space of 3 days was back to the hazardous drinking of old with all the chaos that entailed and worse. He had to go. He knew why he had to go. He didnt like it but the need to drink was in control so I gave him a hug and let him go.
He asked to come home for Christmas and that he would apply controlled drinking, we said no. It was tough, very tough.....Christmas being such an emotional family time, but we held firm to the boundary. An activeA cantjust have one or two drinks, cant stick to promises, he may think he is controlling his disease but the disease is always in control unless arrested by abstinence.
Jerry mentioned the book Under the Influence its by Dr James Milam. This book has been invaluable to me in educating me about the disease of alcoholism. It changed a lot of my thinking and allowed me to make more informed choices.
Boundaries for me involved a fair bit of trial and error, and were (are) emotionally exhausting at times, but once in place detachment from the disease/situation became easier, which then makes my life less fraught. Its all ongoing so Im thankful for all the tools at my disposal !!
Thank you for your replies. Jerry you said it well with "If they are not inforcable don't go thru the exercise because two things happen when they are not. One is that you get to feel what you are feeling now...confused and powerless and the other is that the alcoholic knows another line in the sand that he can cross." So I suppose for now I will accept it as it is and continue my path to my own separate recovery and when I am able to make a more clear boundry with a fitting consequence, then I will. Ness, that must have been so hard to put your son out, good for you for sticking to your guns. Thank you all for your thoughts, when my head stops spinning, it will all make more sense, I am sure.
I would like to add one more thought. You and only you can decide when is the right time to place and enforce your boundaries. It could be next week or it could be months. You will know when the time is right for you. You could decide to live with the disease--- or at some point get sick and tired of his junk.
My own personal opinion concerning boundaries is that you can have flexable boundaries, the ones that can be discussed and changed to meet the particular situation. Or you can have boundaries that are a "brick wall", not a fence that your A can step over or crawl under. With "brick wall" boundaries there "is" no flexibility. There is no room for discussion or changes. It's make perfectly clear what the consequences will be if the A does not honor what has been agreed to. That makes it a simple black or white issue that has been chiseled in stone and easy to inforce. The boundaries are for you--- for your serenity and protection.
The A's in out life are not going to change---but we can change--- and one of the ways we can change is to set boundaries to protect ourself---but only when the time is right for us.
One thing I would say about working to set limits is be patient. Know that you won't be that great at it at first. Keep at it. Keep setting the limit in your mind. Keep letting go.
Also, just always know your not alone. I am in pretty much the same situation as you are, he knows he has a problem he makes the promises, but alas he is never able to keep them and I am also experiencing trying to figure my boundries and how to back them up. I needed to read all the responses you got just as much as you did, so thank you :)
