"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

N8SMOM · Senior Member

Our Selfish Program

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

If he were really unselfish, he might give up drinking for you. Or if he were helpfully selfish, he might give up drinking to save his own life. But I'm not sure that "helping someone in need" and "helping someone so they don't experience the consequences of their actions" are the same thing.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Mom its okay to have balance in the process and there is no way to surgically remove
emotions and thoughts unless you consider a frontal lobotomy. Taking time for
yourself is balance. Feeling confused and angry and restful are emotions. Feeling
guilt can keep you shakled to the problem and away from solutions.   You're not a
bad person for taking care of your needs or reacting to the consequences of this
disease.   "...it affects everything it comes in contact with." (from the early definition
of alcoholism).   (((((hugs))))) smile

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

I dont know why you feel selfish - I know for me, when I first went to focus on myself - I felt terrible guilt about it for an entire year (b4 the guilt went away). I chatted with members in the chat room and someone sd it was "false guilt". You see, guilt comes after we do something we deem "wrong" but I was having guilt in advance. So it wasnt real, it was my sick mind trying to get me to do what I had always done, which was worry about others, focus on them and be manipulative/controlling.

Keep working to do the next right thing for you. Stop comparing yourself to ur AH and what he would do -- it is like comparing codpendency traits, we (alanons & A's) both have them and they are motivating our sickness. I truly belive that all of our problems stem from lack of self intimacy. So, keep working the program. It is not selfish to take care of one's needs - it is self preservation and the healthy thing to do.

It wasnt until I realized (bc I always sd, I didnt want to be "selfish" like the A's) that by focusing on others and wasting my life, it was the ultimate form of selfish waste of the precious gift of my life that god gave - to me. I was spitting on god and disregarding god by wasting my life and fixating on what other people do. Then it became clear... it was my life too and I owed it to myself and god to make the best of it and try to be happy and peaceful.

I know this is new beahvior and that's why u are questioning it, I did too. But my goal was health and I was going to get mentally and emtoinally healthy - even if I "hurt others" by not being willing to give in to the manipulation anymore. The power games were over for me - I was getting control over me and not playing and letting them control me anymore.

I agreew ith Mattie, if he were truly unselfish, he would give up drinking to save his own life. I personally think, since he is in this situation, it would be good for him to take the bus or get to his job some other way. He is a viable adult and can figure it out for himself - give him the space and dignity to do so. I'm sure he has a lot to prove to himself.

I agree with jerry - focus on you and what is a good solution for your life and work towards it. Work towards anything that will allow you to feel better right now/today. It is your life.

carolinagirl · ~*Service Worker*~

I know I felt selfish when I didn't do what the AH wanted right after we separated. I have new rules now. You go to jail you're on your own. He may do that for you and he may not but the thing I had to realize is that I would never be in that situation so he would never have to. It was always me putting aside my stuff to do things that had to be done for him. It's easy to say what they "would" do when they never have to.

Ness · ~*Service Worker*~

I wondered how I was going to tell him that I needed a break and that I didn't enjoy driving him. But then I thought. . . . he would never do this to me if the roles were reversed. Except for the drinking, he has always been there for me and been supportive. If I were the one in jail, he would talk to me on the phone for hours if I wanted him to and he wouldn't be ina hurry to drop me off. That's the kind of guy he was (is?), that's the kind of guy I married.

So why is it that when I think I need a break from him and I dread having to drive him around, I feel like I'm being selfish?

........................................................................

See this to me is where I see the disease as cunning....I used to keep the decent nice kind guy top of the list and the disease 2^nd.....me, rest of the family at the bottom, and he knew this.... and ran with it. His diseased insane manipulation was the ruler with the result I was always feeling sorry for him.....for the nice guy with the bad disease......my A is my son so as a mother my fear rope was yanked big time and my misplaced compassion (for the disease!) blinkered me into doing anything other than protect him at all costs....because hes a lovely guy and I dont want him to be hurt or to hurt him.

Fast forward to today. Ive been in Alanon for a yr. Last time my son was in rehab husb and I took off....told him we were going away to immerse ourselves in our own recovery for a bit and would be out of contact. He got on with his stuff and we had fun mountain walking. Previous practice BA (before Alanon) was stay at home, on call, worry, wait, ready to sort it, whatever it may be.

We use NO a lot more now. Ive learned here that NO is a whole sentence....I like that.

Boundaries are firmly in place for our serenity. I dont think its selfish to protect our own health and well being.

SO......Selfish?.....I dont know..... but were getting better at it and our son knows were working it. Wish he would work his programme selfishly.......

Normal rules dont apply with this disease were not in a normal situation

So I understand where your thinking is coming from and in writing this down it shows me I am progressing slowly...... so thanks for posting this its really helped me today......Ive had a bit of stinkin thinkin creeping in and youve made me stop and reflect....don't want to step back into the insanity disbelief

Hope you get some me time soon.....

In support

(((((hugs))))) Ness

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Interesting perspective.... Personally, I don't feel that our program is "selfish" whatsoever.... We are encouraged to practice "self-care", to be sure, but in my mind, "selfish" has a completely different, negative connotation....

Tom

Tracy · ~*Service Worker*~

My sponsor says constructive selfishness!!
I used to get up and take my ABF to work on the early shift which meant I lost an hour and a half every morning in bed. I would then be tired all day ratty with the kids and the resentment towards him grew. (OH YEAH IF HE COULD DRIVE HE WOULD DO IT FOR ME). But he can not drive, and I would not put another person out like that. In the end I told him he had to make his own way to work and just like you the guilt hit. Everytime I try a new behavior step outside the norm do what is right for me it hits. But I have learnt now the more i do it the easier it gets. My A started making his own way to work. Then he started gtting up late saying you will have to run me in I will loose my job. I put up with it then had to set new boundary told him if he did it again I was not taking him and he would have to pay for a taxi(cab). Guess what it stopped. Today I try and only do the things I want to do this way my relationship is more honest. My A is in AA and trying by the day to focus on himself his self asteem is riing by the day. If we held our childs hand all the time as toddlers they would not learn to walk we have to trust them let them fall. My ABF is thirtyfive he shoould be able to make his own way to work and yes we do things for each other but only if we really want to or whats the point. I Matter today, Mt needs are important and I think my A has more respect for me. Plus he doesnot feel as guilty as he is not manipulating me as easy. OH yes he still tries but today I try and do what is right for me. The al anon literature states if you want a man to be a man then think him so.

hope this helps

-- Edited by Tracy on Thursday 28th of January 2010 01:21:48 PM

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks everyone for the shares - for me, exactly some 'stuff' I needed to hear.

I'm so new to this side of the 12 Step Life that I am a sponge, in a perpetual listening/soaking/nodding node.

I do remember a wise person a long while ago told me that the 12 Step way of life is to live selflessly but with self-protection. She went on to share that we are of little to no value to anyone if we're not taking care of ourselves.

When I felt guilty over doing or not-doing for another, she always told me to focus on doing the next right thing. She also said that if the next right thing is relaxing on the couch reading a book, that was OK.

Being of service to ourselves and others is a critical element of success in this program. Every piece of literature I've read regarding being of service does list 'self' first.

I have a ton of guilt right now as my soon to be on his own ASon has so much to learn. I have (without realizing) became his secretary, his alarm clock, his chef, his calendar, his laundress, etc. He's so used to me telling his what he needs to do each day, where he needs to go, what time, etc. that since I've stepped out of this role - he's stuck, big time.

Based on what you all here have shared, and what the F2F meetings tell me, he is more likely to learn and grow IF I get out of his way. I'm more likely to have emotional peace if I can focus on me and what I need to do. It's a bit uncomfortable, and he missed a counselor appointment this morning, but it is what it is and it is not my responsibility.

I have always considered 'selfish' to be more like if I am with-holding, and there's a need. In the case where the 'need' is perceived by another, and is self-inflicted - I have a bit of empathy for them, but not guilt.

((((Hugs)))) - may you find the strength to take care of you!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene