The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I was reading the post linked to the Times Article "Our Mother's Drinking was Wrecking us".... and I thought, "even if they're not drinking, they can still wreck (us)"
My exaH insists on caring for our 5 yr old child on Tuesdays. Before he goes for work on afternoons exaH brings our son to daycare, where I pick him up when I am done work. I can just as easily (maybe even more easily and with greater comfort) have my child attend daycare for the full day. But I feel a sense of obligation to my exaH and our son to allow them that time together.
exaH says he's not drinking and says he's going to mtgs. One of my hugest complaints is that he's "unplugged". Seems to be bringing almost nothing to the party - a real disconnect to the world around him. I see this in the relationship with our son also. It's hard to explain, but it's just like, exaH is there physically,but seems to have just given up on thinking, ideas, having goals, having friends, ... it's aggravating for me to witness.
So, a big bone of contention is that when in exaH's care, our son plays a huge amount of video games. Excessive. For the most part, the video games babysit our son while exaH does who knows??? I've argued endlessly with exaH that I could just as easily put our son in daycare if he's not going to do anything with our son that represents meaningful engaged activity. each time exaH agrees to "do better" so to speak. Every once in a while he does take our son out, but it's never long before the habitual hours and hours of video games reoccurs. My exaH loves video games also, IMO it's just another escape. Our son likes them too, but tends to be bothered by them also, the content seeming to get right in there into his subconscious and sometimes he has trouble sleeping at night, for thinking of these games. That worries me. There are so many more valuable life experiences to plug into the subconscious mind of a 5 year old.
Today when I picked up our son from daycare I was told that our son seemed distant, sort of emotionless and that it took a lot to draw him into activity. They said he was pretty focused on reporting all the in's and outs of the video games he said he was playing all day.
I'm really really upset by this. My son is so amazing. He loves gross motor stuff. He loves to sing and dance. He is always up for crafts and stories and playing board games. He's a great story teller and a wonderful entertainer. He likes to go on adventure walks. He has so much to offer the world as the world does him. But I know this because I AM plugged in. I have a well formed relationship with him. I also know that video games sort of disturb him. He gets almost obsessive. ugh
There have been several reactive thoughts I've had including throwing the video game system in the trash (which very well may be what happens) .... enrolling my son full days in daycare ..... calling my exaH and screaming bloody murder at him and asking why he is so freakin' disconnected and so unable to have a loving parental relationship with this child and offer him a peice of himself.....to falling apart and breaking down myself with pure powerlessness....
please help.
Rora
-- Edited by Rora on Tuesday 26th of January 2010 08:00:58 PM
Rora, this really hits home -- my A exH is just the same. He says he wants to spend time with our son, but the time is spent parking him in front of video games, or sometimes in front of the computer, occasionally in front of the TV. As far as I can tell they never interact any other way. This is partly because my ex has Asperger's and he's just not too good at being one-on-one with anyone -- too much intensity. And partly because as an A he's just checked out from life. But be it as it may, I don't think it's good for our son one bit.
What I've done is to figure that I just can't control what goes on between them -- I can't police their time together. That would just drive me crazy as well as being impossible. But I also don't want my son doing nothing but playing video games for days and days. So I don't let my ex see our son for hours at a time. (And anyway he's an A -- he's a binge A so he's not drinking all the time, he has periods of sobreity -- but better safe than sorry.) I figure on a two-hour visit, the most our son can play video games is two hours. But I also assign little tasks to my ex -- "He needs some dinner, can you guys go to the pizza place?" (There is a pizza place they like two blocks away, requires no driving.) "He needs to do his homework worksheet, will you oversee that?" "He needs to practice his flute for 15 minutes, will you make sure he does that?" In our case I think my ex actually appreciates having something on the agenda for the time -- he's not good at thinking what to do and how to fill the time otherwise. Your ex may be different, of course. But for us, sometimes I give them an "assignment" and sometimes I just reconcile myself to the two hours of video games. Fortunately the ones my son has are not really violent (he's into Webkinz, which are animals you buy online houses for, etc., as well as a few mild battle games).
I don't know how much your ex is open to negotiation, as opposed to getting into arguments, but my ex was open to the argument that shorter visits allowed for more intensive "quality time," which was more valuable than long hours of babysitting.
One ironic up side to all of this is that if we get into a custody dispute, I plan to use the fact that he does nothing with our son except park him in front of video games to my advantage. I think he's showing that he's not a three-dimensional dad right there.
Thank you Mattie. It is nice to know I'm not alone here.
My exaH is like you describe, not good at initiative, but depending on his mood will do what I ask him to at times. I hesitate to be his "mother" and tell him what to do or tell him how to be a father. That has not only made me disrespect him, but has been thrown in my face countless times.
It is so unusual, the more I grow , the more I see exaH's seeming complete disconnect. He'll sit and stare at a floor for countless minutes, with a whole world of life and beautiful child chatter going on around him, not even taking notice that there's anyone in the room. Touching moments, movies, stories, seem to never prompt any kind of a response out of him. Explaining to him that sitting a child infront of a tv for an entire day is unhealthy and a good recipe for having no relationship with him as a teen, when he's bucking the proverbial parental system as a normal part of development, doesn't seem to worry him in the least. To me, it is just so bizarre and so unlike ME.
He seems to not understand one bit his role in his son's life and that I've needed to seek out other strong male figures to purposely fill the gap..ie. karate instructor etc.
I like the idea of short visits. The shorter the better as far as I'm concerned. But exaH is insistent to care for our son the fullday. I want to tell him "no thanks". If he was plugged in, I knew that he had the best interest of my child at heart always, was creative and providing meaningful care, heck I'd pay him to care for our son. But I wouldn't let a babysitter plop our son infront of a tv/video system all day...why should I let exaH?
ugh...thanks for the input...i really need the esh today
My ex AH is like that, too. He doesn't have any friends, doesn't have any hobbies, doesn't do anything that I'm aware of, etc. He says he's "drinking less," but aside from the court ordered AA he got as the result of his second DUI, he's not going to meetings. He wants to have my 8 year old sometimes, and I know he loves him - but I don't think he spends any more quality time with him than he spent with me or with anyone else. This used to bother me greatly and make me want to cut their time together short. I don't want my kid parked in front of the television or video games.
The fact is, I don't believe that my ex AH has any concept of quality time. I've gotten to the point where I realize that since my son is not in immediate physical danger, I have no right to tell my ex AH how to be a parent - regardless of whether I agree. It would be great if he were the kind of parent *I* want him to be. Sometimes he is, sometimes he's not. But just like I couldn't make him quit drinking, I can't make him do what I want him to as a father.
This is a VERY touchy subject, I know, and it's been hard for me. As a mother, you want what's best for your children and are willing to go to any length to get it. In my opinion, letting my AH alone to parent as he sees fit is another part of working my program. You can be sure that if there were any physical danger or abuse of any sort, I would not just sit back.
Just my .02 ... take what you like, and leave the rest.
Rora - my AH lives with us, and has always been disconnected. He's been so disconnected over the years that most 'structure' I've tried has been negated if/when I was not home.
My kids are now 15 and 17. I've shared a bit about my oldest and his addictions. In hindsight, looking back, the addictive tendencies were there long before he picked up his first substance.
Video games, Cartoons, TV - all these substitutions were a constant pull for him. If I knew then what I know now, I would have imposed some concrete limits at an early age.
I agree with the idea to suggest an agenda. I know if my AH is left in charge, still today, the 3 of them don't interface, don't talk - they all 3 do their own thing. However, if I suggest that it would help me if....
- Haircut. - Wash the dog. - Wash the car. - ...
In our world, if I can suggest agenda items away from the home, they are almost forced to be together. I often have shared with others that my best conversations with my boys were during car rides - they are held captive by the seatbelt!
((((Hugs)))) for you while you process. Being a parent and wanting the best for our children is a huge responsibility/blessing. I am learning now that God doesn't have grand-children, and I really need to trust him with my AH and my boys.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I can sympathize. In my family we call it the fade-away that mostly the men do. Some are alcoholics and some just addicts to something. My sons are grown but I use to exhaust myself trying to make up for what their father wouldn't or couldn't do. When he was present he was great but the activities tended to be the TV. He has been sober for over 20 years; does not work a program. He left when the youngest graduated from HS. I think mostly to pursue his other addicitons without interference from me - TV, computer games, workaholic any distraction will do. I had rules - no TV week, let's all go outside and play basketball. In your case limits would be good. I don't think they have the ability to fill a quality day with the kids. My AHsober was always preoccupied with his addictions. Like mine, your ex probably wouldn't even notice a change in the schedule. Hope this helps.
My ex has it to the max. I didn't figure out why he was so disconnected until after it was too late, but it explained a lot I just couldn't understand. I also think it contributed to his alcoholism -- he's under great stress from his inability to manage the world, especially interactions with people, and when he found that alcohol seemed to make the stress go away -- well, alcoholism was a foregone conclusion. Not that that makes the alcoholism okay, but it helps me to see why he can't just "pull himself up by his bootstraps" and cope on his own. It also helps me understand a lot of his weird behaviors -- for instance, he can't just sit and talk to somebody; after five or ten minutes he'll get up and walk around, and a lot of the time he'll just walk out of the room while I'm in the middle of saying something. This used to drive me nuts and I'd take it personally. Now I see that he just gets overstimulated and he can't be normal. He generally can't look people in the eye in a conversation, he can't sit down and talk to our son, he can't stand it if anyone has strong feelings -- too much stimulation; he goes nuts. It's like alcoholism -- the syndrome is in control -- except that there's no recovery from this one. But anyway, like alcoholism, understanding it helps me detach and not take it personally. This might not fit your situation at all, so disregard if so. I do think those of us coping with people who are alcoholics plus some other syndrome can get mighty confused!
What helped me soooo much in this area when I reached it in recovery was to learn how to either kill my expectations or align them...Don't have any or don't have any that go against the reality of the situation. The other one that drove me nuts until I was made aware of it and then led to change was comparing my program to hers and acting as if my growth should somehow cause her change. There were times I prayed to go blind as I didn't come back to self focus and be grateful for the longest of times, you would think that the only center in my life or hope for it was her. I had to reach a deeper bottom and allow her the dignity of her choices and myself the courage and permission (program and my own) to look at what I needed to change in myself and then get on with it. By the way when it was her time to wake up and do her own changes she became the metaphor of humility for me. Absolutely spiritually stunning. If I had to bet that she could change much less change the way she did I'd be still naked and homeless somewhere in Central Valley CA. Can I be wrong? like a master I can. That is my ESH. (((((hugs)))))
....gentle mirror time.... I would venture to say that this issue is more about you trying to control your ex, than it is truly an issue with your son.... If your ex only has your son one day per week, even if he is spending too much time with video games on that day - I can't imagine it being a battle worth fighting over.... I would agree that a compromise of "age appropriate" video would be a suitable discussion for you two to agree upon, but other than that..... The old saying of "do you want to be right, or to be happy?" comes to mind.... We don't need to win every battle, and sometimes we need to stop sweating the small stuff....
Just my two cents...
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate the opportunities to learn and grow and also be reminded that letting go is an option also. Many times I don't come to that option on my own. It's very outside of my comfort zone evidently.
