Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

The Chatter in my Brain --- The Pain in my Heart

Charlie · Veteran Member

Iamhere,

I'm glad you are!
You came to the right place.
The Serenity prayer came to mind as I read your post.
Please take care of yourself.
I'm sure someone here has a wealth of experience they can share with you regarding children and teenagers.
There is a lot of love here.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Charlie --- thank you so much! I was beginning to think I was a bit too forward with my post.

I LOVE the Serenity Prayer...it brings peace to my heart.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha I'mhere...you're home this is the door to a different kind of freedom than freedom
from our chemicals.   I am also a double. Here I am on Al-Anon my first doorway to
recovery. I use to counsel young people like your son sooooo I empathize and I know
what worked for me and what I use to work on with their parents.   Continue to help
them run into the wall. Keep them facing your value systems and boundaries and use
as much "outside" help as you can. You will find public service empathetic if you look
for the right people. Continue to do the tough love practice and include your alcoholic
husband in the dance. You've got tons of valuable recovery.   It is you who know and
know that you know; don't deny that or give up on it because it is also the basis of
your own awareness about chemical addiction.   I've reached the boundary this
disease places in front of us several times and with the help of this program and AA
resolved into a smile and pressed on, "not now...not ever".   In Al-Anon we talk about
curing or abstaining the "enabling" behaviors...those behaviors that when we practice
them in what ever way and for what ever reason makes the situation worse...never
better. They are our new drug of choice and we will use them by compulsion and the
situation always gets worse. So here I learned how to recognize those things I did
trying to control or cure (2 of the 3cs) my alcoholic addict which made things worse
and change myself only into not doing them.   The other C is I didn't Cause it.

Stick around and look for Family Group meetings that are close to your "other"
meetings.   Steps will be the same (Thanks Bill and Lois) Traditions will also (Thanks
again); slogans yep...Concepts yes and more...we don't focus on our drinking but on
ourselves trying to change our drinker(s).

Keep coming back (((((hugs))))) smile

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you Jerry for your post and your message. As we only get one shot at parenting, I so often feel like such a failure as a mom...it sucks.

I know in my mind what to do as the program tells me. However, my heart just gets in the way.

So...how big of a slip is it that I just took photos of his arms, as there appears to be new marks?

When I do as I think a parent should do (drug test, counseling, etc.), I am hated. When I act as if the bad choices are OK, I have such horrible internal conflict. I hate what this disease does to all involved.

I really struggle between co-dependent and parent. I just don't know where the boundaries are.

It does seem about the time I'm finding a bit of serenity, I get yet another opportunity to learn. Why does the learning have to be so painful? cry

Bella333 · Veteran Member

Jerry, thank you for reminding me that enabling is like a drug to an Alanoner. And that it only makes things worse.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

What are your motives with the pictures...is he still in rehab...has a parole officer...under
the doctors care...able to be remanded back into another program...or are the pictures
to tell him what he already knows?   What are your motives? (dwell on that one don't
react to it) Are you trying to get your using husband on your side into your team, to wake
the hell up!!. If it doesn't work don't use it save yourself the grief and it is a sign of your
grief and loss.     Let go and Let ... This is how and when I learned how to use my HP and
treat my HP as real and my HP is real. HP might not have the same intentions and
methods as me but I know for certain, hands down, without doubt that my HP is real.
If your son and husband are not doing their parts...accept it and do yours.    If there
are new tracks he is fulfilling your expectations...not your wishes...your expectations.
It's his choice and the push of his addiction not yours.   Take it and your pain and
sorrow and grief and anger and rage to your sponsor and your HP and after you
tantrum and scream...stand still and breathe in surrender.   You didn't cause it, You
can't control it, you can't cure it you can only love him.   You are not HP you are mother.
HP doesn't do codependent behaviors...don't do anything that makes it worse for you
or for him.   You're in that place we know of as between a rock and a hard place...the
way to freedom is upward. I empathize with you as you get battered by "feelings" and
"thoughts" that are not supportive of "right behaviors". I've learned that in regard to
right behaviors that if I had a doubt as to what I should do...I should do nothing except
maybe turn it all including myself over.     If you are able to drug test for some positive
outcome do that. If it is meaningless (no positive outcome) turn it over. I wouldn't let
my parents play cop if there was nothing they could enforce.    You cannot scare an
addict beyond what the addiction to the drug can do. You can only piss them off because
you interfere with the process and scare them. They get angry...big deal.   For me if
anger was the only thing I had to worry about when I worked with addicted teens I just
acknowledged that they were and that I was going on with what I knew was right for me
to do and that could result in saving their lives. If they threatened me; and some did,
they got locked up for the threat not the use.   I've had them thank me later and that
wasn't what I was looking for.   People get angry when they are affraid and feeling
powerless and threatened. Anger is an emotion...I watch it and listen for the language
that comes with it and state my boundaries and intentions if I feel threatened.   I am
not saying that will easily work for you but it is different and get some other support
behind you because that makes change (yourself) easier.

Let go of your "slips".   This is not a perfect process and you are not a perfect person
and neither am I.   You go for what is the best your can do with what you have now
and if you have an inkling that maybe it was a bit screwy at times give yourself a hug,
tell yourself Good Try, pat yourself on the back and say "NEXT!!".    If the disease
goes after your less than perfect attempts...smile and say, "theres more coming" and
turn your back on it.   Try not to struggle with this 24/7.   If you attempt that you will
get tired and have to rest and the disease just doesn't rest at all but it doesn't take
you down when You're not fighting it.   Leave the dance and turn it over.

Just a little perspective...I've never known any parents that gave birth to a child that
came with a manual for dealing with alcohol or drug dependency.     You do your
best and you don't do it alone.   Stay in your face to face meetings and get the
literature and steps and traditions and sponsor and of course....HP.

In support...the length of this is about how I care.    (((((hugs))))) smile

Festfan · Veteran Member

Jerry - thank you so much for that post - your ESH are very strong and so very applicable to the myriad of situations and thoughts that go through my brain.

Iamhere - just a big (((((hug))))). I am new here and don't have the words that Jerry has, but you are in my thoughts.

Peace...

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

In family therapy they have the concept of the "designated patient" -- that when a family has problems, one person, usually a child, acts out and becomes the one that everyone else identifies as the problem. Often one of the things the child is doing is taking attention away from another big problem, like a parent with an addiction. In that way the child is subconsciously following the wishes of the family -- providing a diversion from other things the family is avoiding.

What this means is that beginning to heal yourself has a knock-on effect: the other parts of your family can start to get better too. That's just one benefit of concentrating on your own recovery and serenity. I hope you can find face-to-face meetings too, and keep coming back to those and to here.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Good morning all and thanks for sharing your wisdom, strength and experience. I have read the posts, and am struggling with an answer to 'motive'. I know that if my AH were not in the picture, my AS would be either in treatment or in jail.

From the first day I discovered my AS use, I made a promise to myself that I'd go to any lengths to get him help. The first intake at inpatient was as emotional for me as planning a funeral. The loss of innocence and the loss of my son, as I knew him was almost too much to bear.

The fourth intake for inpatient was very freeing. Not so much as I felt the program would work. The almost instant freedom was due to a sense of comfort knowing that he was in a controlled environment, and I could sleep (you don't get much of that with an AS/AC in the home.

Before inpatient, we did attend individual, family, group and other counseling. Unfortunately, counseling works better when there are willing participants. It feels as if I've spent the better part of the last 3-5 years chasing the right counselor, the right center, the right program and/or the right answer.

I am convinced, through prayer, meditation and the process of elimination that incarceration is the best answer at this time - treatment and counseling have not worked. So Juvenile Jail/Detention is the logical next step This is where the chatter comes in - my AH, my gut, my guilt, my ... - the forever internal debate.

It is so very difficult to change the mindset of having a happy, healthy son to one that lives. It is so very difficult to watch this disease grab one so young, and feel so very powerless. It is not only difficult, but so very, very painful.

So --- my motive is for sure unclear. I only know that right now, for this day, all I can do is pray and work my program. This is easy to do (it's very early, and nobody else is awake yet) for the moment. smile

I know I must let Go and let God. For today only, I will focus on me, and not that which is around me. I am so very grateful for those who have walked before me, and their experience on this path. While the route may be muddy and rocky, at least I am not alone and there are others who will walk with me.

<<<<<<<HUGS>>>>>> back to each and all! May your day be great!

Ness · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Iamhere......welcome.

My son is an alcoholic......didnt drink till he was 19, was addicted by 21 and he is now 33 going on 19. Its true what they say, emotional development stops when the disease takes hold.

Hes a hazardous drinker that has him living life like a yo yo......up in recovery stints and down begging in the streets. I had every emotion you describe and I didnt....couldnt let go until this time last year when my own health, physical and emotional, turned on me and said enough is enough.

I can say through working the programme, attending weekly f2f meetings...I would do more but theres only one a week here......and keeping coming back here, my situation has changed. I realised recently that I have stopped faking it and am actually making it! The biggest thing for me is the fear has gone and that has given me a degree of serenity. When I let go I entered an extended period of grief.....scarey.......but necessary for my survival. My f2f buddies hugged me tight while I processed it and I got (get) great virtual hugs (&ES&H) here!......We cant do it alone.

Gerry has given you great input......I know for me one of the things I apply most is when in doubt dont. I find taking myself off, being still and doing a bit of Al-Anon reading or chanting the serenity prayer helped. I also have boundaries in place to protect my recovery.

I've had to work hard on forgiving myself for the things I have done over the last 10 yrs but as we say in Al-Anon I did the best I could with what I knew at the time.
You mentioned photographing your son's arms..... I came across old photographs the other day of my son's quagmire of a bedroom piled high with empties and him sprawled on the bed in a drunken stupour......what was my motive......who knows....all I know is I was insane with fear at the time.

My sons disease is currently active, his periods of sobriety minimal...... theres nothing I can do about that. I still love him, he knows that, but I accept I cant change him....only me. I'm one step away from relapse every day so I'm working hard.

Hope you keep coming back. It can and does get better.

(((((hugs))))) Ness

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Ness - thank you for sharing your ESH - very helpful and very kind of you.

For this moment, on this day I am calm. I could analyze the why, but it's better to just enjoy.

The hardest part for me is 'seeing' him. As the mom, I can see his pain, see his anger, see his confusion, and it's so hard to keep my boundaries. He's at work and I've got a break and am working to just relax and be grateful.

I have much to learn - I do not know how to detach....with love. I suppose I'll learn with others teaching me, and practice.

<<<<<<Hugs>>>>>> to you and all - my gratitude for this forum is above the top!!

Ness · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree....the seeing is the worst for me.....I cant physically have my son in my life at the moment.....watching his self destruction is more than I can bear......this boundary can be changed but at the moment I need it for where I am in my process of recovery.

I find this helpful to me..... http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

Youre willing to seek the courage to change......thats all it takes.

I've let go of expectations I take it little by little one day at a time.

Have a good day at work......

In support

Ness

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you Ness. My heart just almost shatters every time I have to see my son. Unfortunately, he's a minor and still lives here. So - daily I must face my son and it is very difficult.

I keep a locket with me always. It's got photos of him when he was a babe, smiling, innocent and free. For a long time, I could only hold it and cry. I now can actually open it and look. I sometimes do still cry, but other times I smile.

I am off the hook sort of for today - my Ah is home and my Ason has already ordered me to 'stop talking'. This used to upset me - I now use it as a catalyst to go and do something for me...

Thank you to everyone...may I grow in spirit one day at a time and feel better about my space.

PS - thanks for the link to detachment! I scanned it but want to print to make notes. Much appreciated!

chickie · Newbie

I have no advice. I just wanted to thank you for telling your story. It's the closest thing I've found to my situation with my husband. He just relapsed six months ago. He doesn't drink often, just enough to have lost my trust. This is my first experience of him drinking in our seven years together.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Chickie - welcome aboard. I remember the first time my AH drank after we married and my emotions were just so raw and my heart was so broken.

If you want to start a new thread and here some experience, strength and hope (ESH), I'm certain you would benefit even more.

<<<<<Hugs>>>> to you and may you find some comfort here and in knowing that you are not alone.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene