The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Good night. Thank you for helping me get through it, even if it was in my own disfunctional way. But i did it! I hope your rel is going to be healthy. Im scared for you because i never thought you would be so easy going with a rel that started with cheating. Ok, im never going to saY another thing about it!
Me:
We're not together yet.
My wife:
You said you had a girlfriend to me when i asked. More than once and on more than one occasion. But i guess you can't be together yet until she leaves her boyfriend who she is cheating on with you. I can't believe that you are involved in that situation. When you told me it totally changed my hope. Your rel will be starting from lies. Do those generally work? And it doesn't bother you to know she is a cheater? No matter how perfect and wonderful you think she is, and i know you do. She is cheating. That says a lot about what you don't know about her. Don't ignore the big stuff like that. And yes, she is cheating. And you know it. You cannot have a healthy rel when it started from lies. Because lying, and cheating, are not healthy relationship factors. They just aren't. Ugh, im sorry. I am not texting anymore. I really have a whole lot of work to do. But if i do the work, and when i am ready, i will be able to have a healthy rel that did not start at a bar with cheating. im gonna be careful this next time. Sorry! Sorry sorry. Im done.
Me:
Is there ever any guarantee that someone won't cheat on you no matter how rel got started? Did u cheat on me?
My wife:
Of course there is no guarantee. But there is a lack of trust when one starts on lies.
Me:
It's not like we're havin sex after all.
Gonna answer my question?
My wife:
Do not lie to yourself. She is cheating. And if what i am about to tell you will help you see what i am trying to make you understand, then it will be worth it to me.
My wife:
I am scared to tell you this. But i have to! Because you have no clue what you are getting into. And i wanted to never tell you. Because the thought of hurting you. Because i love you so much. Are you sure you want to know?
Me:
I already know. It's obvious. Might as well get it off your chest
My wife:
What do you mean its obvious?
Me:
I mean it's obvious u cheated from the way you're talking. But i do want to know the story
My wife:
What do you think you know? I will tell you the truth. Are you going to hate me? If so, i'll tell you anyway. Because i am not kidding when i say that i will accept that if it means you will understand what you are getting into. Ok. If you have a question tell me stop and i'll answer. And i am not going to lie about a single thing even though telling you this is shameful. Really really shameful. Ok..
Me:
....
My wife:
Im workin. This is hard. Give me another 30 seconds. But you didn't answer if you will hate me.
The thing i'll tell you first is the hardest. If you just want me to not tell more after that i won't. Ok.. i cheated. I have been in diana's exact shoes. And i mean exactly. I cheated on you, and it wasn't a one night stand. I looked at your phone and i saw some of your texts to each other. And i know it was wrong. But i felt so happy for you because i can see you both really like each other. But when i found out that you were a part of another triangle but this time on the other end, it ("___" edited by tea2). You don't deserve it. You are that wonderful. Next message coming..
Please answer if you are going to hate me so i can be prepared. I would hate me if i were you.
Me:
Hate is based on resentment. If i get a resentment from it i'll work with my sponsor on it because i don't want to drink
My wife:
Then from the beginning.. This is hard. last april i met someone at chuckwagon. At the time i felt, like i was happily in love with you. Like i always did. And he asked me if i was single and if i wanted to get breakfast and i said im married, but sure i'll go. And i truly had no intentions at that time. We went, that is when intentions changed. I did nothing with him. The next week i ("___" edited by tea2). This is hard for me to admit to you because it is the worst thing i have ever done in my entire life and i mean it. Next text coming unless you say stop.
Me:
April of this year or last
My wife:
Last year. When i was happily married to you. And sleeping next to you. Im sorry, glenn. Im sorry. I continued to sleep with him between 2 to 5 times a week for 4 months or so. And i kept telling myself that it had to stop. But i didn't. And as you know, i was having sex with you too. We were hiding our rel just like you are. I know sex is not involved yet, but she is cheating. And i can promise you that she is lying to you about what really is said and done between her and her man.
Me:
And we're talking about mikey or was it someone else
My wife:
Yes, its mike. I hate that it is him. But i am not gonna lie.
Me:
Ya there's been enough lying hasn't there. So what did you say to mikey about what was going on between me and you?
My wife:
Are you referring to my lying or hers? Im almost done with what i told him.
Me:
Your lying. Don'k know about hers yet that will have to be discussed later
My wife:
I know. I have been lying to both of you. But you didn't deserve any of that. None. The guilt that i feel about you i am unable to think about right now. It is impossible to build trust on a foundation of lies. No matter how much you want it to work. I know! It bothered mike that i was cheating. So i told him that i moved into the jewelry room. I acted like i was just done with you. I talked about moving out. I told him i did not have sex with you anymore. That i wasn't in love with you,
Me:
So ya done yet?
My wife:
With telling you? If you want me to be.
Me:
No i want u to go till you're done. Just didn't get some messages for awhile
My wife:
I know that what i did is the most selfish thing i have ever done. Are you filing all this away to use against me or something?
Me:
No i just want you to be as free of it as you can be
My wife:
I really don't care if you use it against me. I deserve it.
And i actually did move out. Not because of him. I did that for nate. But it made it a lot easier to cheat. On you and on him. Because at that point he believed we were a couple. And he was in love with me. He believed me that you were out of the picture. And i had many close calls. But neither one of you ever found out the true extent that i went. We were together off and on for Until just this september. We broke up all the time because he knew he couldn't trust me from the beginning and i could not seem to convince him for good ever. He would catch on a little i think, but i always convinced him he was throwing away what we had. Which was nothing. Except lies i made. I literally had separate stories for both of you. Generally, you got the real story. But it depended on what i wanted.
When it came to what i was getting from all this - I got from you what he couldn't give me and vise versa. And more than anything, i figured out how to manipulate men to get what i wanted without them even realizing it. I was able to almost be sociopathic because i can hide my feelings so well from myself. And i drank so much. When i needed you to help me cry, i mean, when i used you, it was almost always about what i was doing.
Me:
Sounds like you had a good reason to drink
My wife:
Did you get the last one? My phone turned off.
Me:
You mean when you were crying next to me in bed and i was holding u, you were crying about cheating on me?
My wife:
And if you think she won't cheat on you, maybe your right. But you watched her cheat already. You already know she is willing to do that. And god, you don't deserve that. And aside from the fact that i was with you too, i cheated on mike a whole bunch of times. And i felt about him like she feels about you. I saw things she said and what you said, and it was like looking at my messages with mike.
Sometimes. But if i told you why i was crying, that was why. If i didn't say anything, you would not have wanted to know cause that was about you. Obviously i am very very very messed up. Now do you understand why i am trying to not manipulate you? Its all I have done to you. ("___" edited by tea2) all over your love. You have been in my life the most sincere love giver. I can't believe i threw you away. We would have never even separated if it weren't for me. I would have tried to work through anger nate stuff.
Me:
Well it hurts but looks like it ended up hurting u more than it hurt me. So how can i hate u 4 it. I hope u will stay with ur program and i hope the best 4 u.
My wife:
Do you understand that i just told you all this, and i didn't want to, because i am that concerned about you getting involved in that? I know that you will never even consider me ever again now. I knew we were done but i sealed the deal. I wasn't sure if you would explode. But i was willing to take that chance because i know that you need to be aware. I could be wrong. She could be this dream girl you seem to have found. From someone else. And mike thought, and still thinks, i am his dream girl. But i am not anything like what he thinks i am. Do you understand the gravity of why i told you?
I am going to stay with the program. I don't want to do that to men. And im sorry to you most of all. And i really hope that me doing this at least opens your eyes to the significance of a rel that starts or is based on lies.
Me:
I understand and i appreciate it very much. I will have to think about all this. U need sleep now
My wife:
I know. Plus phone is dying. But i do want you to know that you were the best husband and the best friend. You deserve what you give. Now you understand why i always said that. Your ability to love someone is amazing. I always felt your love and when i get better, i want to be like that.
Me:
Ok baby one day at a time. Get sleep now u will need it
My wife:
I cannot believe i just did that.
I just lost you for the rest of my life. But you deserve much more than what i can give. And what diana can give.
Wow. I am hurting.
Me:
You will get better. If i could deal with my dad u can deal with this.
We were already done. But we'll still be friends. Diana is a lot like you she had a vietnam dad too. Maybe there's a connection. I hope you'll learn not to blame yourself and just accept what has happened and move forward
My wife:
Yes we were done. But still. I don't want to know about diana ("____" edited by tea2) now. She is a liar. And you can work your way around it if you want. She is a cheat. You don't need that. It truly hurts me that you are trying to talk her up to me. Obviously she already is on a pedestal. I wish you understood how easy of a target you are. Good luck. I hope im wrong. Im sure she is nothing near my extent of deceit. But my god glenn! (" _____" edited by tea2)
Me:
I wasn't talking her up. I was just noting that u were both daughters of vietnam vets. And ya i am an easy target. It sucks.
My wife:
Well, don't be. I actually dont understand why your even involved with a non single person. Thats not you.
Me:
Your point has been made. Go to bed
-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Friday 11th of December 2009 09:13:18 AM
*Flying Squirrel, Please look for a Private Message from me. Thank you tea2.
-- Edited by tea2 on Friday 11th of December 2009 12:20:49 PM
I don't understand why they say we alanoners love the drama because in my case it is the A's who love, and cause all of the drama! I think we alanoners just get sucked into their drama because we are so desperate for interaction with them. I guess drama attention is better than no attention at all, sigh, sad aint it?
Anyway, my EX husband A was like your A wife. Wanted to tell me excruciating details about his cheating. In my case I loathe the drama, if I want a soap opera I can watch TV! So, once I dumped him and moved out, that was IT! I only communicated with him through friends, family, and a LAWYER, because drama is boring for most healthy sane people and it didn't get passed on to me, PHEW.
What will it benefit you to keep on discussing your new relationship with her and her cheating on you? Think about it...it may only keep you both sucked into the addiction drama.
I once broke up with a long term very close relationship BF, we had been together for so long that it was hard to break up. We both could not bear to say bye forever, so we tried "staying friends". It was HORRIBLE and excruciatingly painful. I kept trying until a wise friend told me that "staying friends" is like breaking up in slow motion...prolonging the misery, OUCH!!!
Once you cross that line you can't go back, once you are more than friends you can't go back to "just friends", except maybe after many many years of not having contact and really saying goodbye in your mind and heart over time.
Why do you want us to analyze this? What purpose will it serve?
Even though my EX husband addict and I had a baby together, I still cut all personal contact with him. I only communicated throug legal letters, and through my lawyer. Costly, but worth the peace of mind! What would have been the purpose of a personal relationship? All he would have done was try to bring me down with more news of what a naive idiot I was to trust him and how he got away with so much cheating since I never dreamed someone got married to cheat at that young age. It would not have added anything positive to my life, so I refused to listen.
Rather than ask people to analyze your A's words, why not analyze yourself and try to understand why you are continuing the drama? Is it because you are not ready to let go of your wife? Or is it because you have simply become addicted to the high energy drama of life with a cheating A?
I thought that my EX husband addict telling me about his cheating details was so utterly disrespectful to me that I would not lower myself to listen to it. I learned to value myself far more than he ever did and not allow it.
I hope you soon find some peace from this very painful situation.
MP
-- Edited by canadianguy on Friday 11th of December 2009 11:23:21 AM
I can get sucked into this kind of a quagmire in a minute. I have to focus like a laser on the issue of not going to the butchers to buy bread. If I have that like a mantra i stop being overinvolved.
Oh ya I'm a sick person still, I don't like bein cheated on but I sure must like crazy women.
And there's more! My wife was getting an abortion today because of the drunken rape some of you might remember. I decided to go there and support her in spite of everything. Guess who was already there? The guy she supposedly broke up with for good in September. Man I skedaddled straight to my sponsor's house. He helped me, he's a great guy with 11 years sobriety and some experience in cheating issues on both sides too... lol somehow I ended up with the perfect sponsor for me.
Unfortunately I somehow couldn't resist upsetting her while in her fragile state at the clinic because of numbnuts showing up. But I was hurting again. Well my pride was hurt I guess hehehe
And now after talking to D this morning and telling her I wasn't gonna be her "m" (or her fiancee's "m") here I am still deep in it talking to her. But I've made it clear that we need to both finalize our current relationships before there's any chance of discussing the beginning of my next sick relationship. LOL
-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Friday 11th of December 2009 05:01:37 PM
I can only speak from my own experience in thinking I married a trustworthy person, but he was holding a huge secret from me since the day we met - a secret that had I known about in the beginning, I likely wouldn't have involved myself with him beyond a friendship level.
All I know is nothing in life is guaranteed... the slogan "This, too, shall pass" holds to everything for me... and I mean EVERYTHING. Relationships, how people feel about each other, jobs, homes, pets, abundance, poverty... nothing is permanent. Two people could meet each other, fall madly in love, be true to each other for years and years and then maybe one day one of them will suddenly decide they're not happy any more without any possible telling signs. It's human nature to change. Even if it's not always in a nice way.
All I can do is walk this life and hope to remember to ask my HP to walk with me and guide me... and show up the way my HP would like me to show up, no matter what nastiness or pain is thrown at me... or what I maybe set myself up for.
Don't know what I'm supposed to get out of what you've shared... only that the drama is all too familiar to me. The whole "I love you but can't stand you" thing. The "I want you to leave me alone but darnit, I want you to care about me and I want to leave you alone but darnit if only you'd see things my way, you'd be happy" stuff... yep. All too familiar. I can see myself in both your wife and you in my own behaviors. I can relate, I can relate, I can relate.
What I can do from there is take a look at those things I can relate on that I wish I didn't relate to and ask my HP for help with those things.
Sort of a weird fourth step for me, only through someone else's inventory.
First, thank you for sharing this. You've really opened yourself up and I appreciate it. I often find that this MIP group is a place where guards can be let down and more honesty can come out. F2F meetings are great, but I don't think I am the only one who has difficulty admitting the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, in F2F meetings.
I can very much relate to the chaotic conversations, whether it be thru email, text or voice with my aH also, from whom I too am separated from. Sometimes I go over the dialogues also, and I think, "this is totally insane". I can relate to the manipulation, trying over and over to prompt a particular response, emotion, action, using different words and tactics, anything you can possible think of, to try and get that desired reaction out of someone else, all to just feel disappointed in the end that A) you got it, but you had to really work for it and spell it out or B) you never got it at all. Both outcomes for me, always leave me feeling dissatisfied and further more, very very angry and resentful.
I am learning that I like the chaos less and less these days, though there are times when I put my gloves on and come out swinging - with words, accusations, anger, hate, disappointment, insults, you name it. Each time though, I think to myself, "I can get off this merry-go-round any time I want to". It begins and ends with me. Sometimes I really don't want to. I guess that's where the "progress, not perfection", comes in.
