"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Dyinginside · Veteran Member

IMPOSSIBLE not to react!!!!!!!!

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

dying inside, welcome to alanon and MIP.

I can very much relate to what you are saying, I felt the same way when I first got to alanon. In fact the first time I was 17, came for three years but never ever surrendered myself. Then I wasted twenty years bc I was off doing the same thing, thinking I could control my surroundings and loved ones.

It is my impression that u are resisting your powerlessness over him. It is ALL about his disease and his problems, he is an addict. What u need to do is face yourself with brutal honesty and look deeply within to see if you have any codependnet or enabling characteristics. Look for your patterns and then deeper at your issues. We all have something in there or we wouldnt be attracting A's.

I grew up acoa (adult child of addict/alcoholic) and I was very reactive. In fact reacting was all I did. I did learn to stop this for the most part but it came with a lot of personal work, program, learning to love me first (as my own priority) & much forgiveness work.

Think about it, if u are upset about his behavior, it IS YOUR problem. You can leave this b/f but it is likely u will attract another unless u change ur perception, get some healthy boundaires and learn how to detach with love.

My core codie relationship was with my mother. I had to work on that relationship and the issues there b4 I could change how I was acting with my boyfriends.

When I set boundaries and followed through on them, I got some detachment and I was able to really get into working on myself and stop worrying about what other ppl were doing (the A's in my life, especially). I alos had to learn to stop talking to my A"s, as u have seen they ask u to open up but then bite your head off for it or use ur feelings against you as ammo.

Part of realizing, yes its their disease, is for us to also step up and realize we have a part in the relationship/dynamic too. Im suggesting u face yourself as u are a part of the disease, so it is yours also. You can change your part in it, if u face it. We cannot change what we dont acknowledge.

Ido know exactly how u feel. I was a slave to my emotional reactions and I wanted to change that. I also got single and stayed that way until I was lovingmyself first and had set boundaries for dating and A's. I was not interested in being with another A again. So if u looked like an A to me, I didnt care how charming you were - if u seemed like u werent emotionally healthy, I said goodbye and that was that. period.

I also looked to the few people that seemed healthy. The truth was I didnt know any personally, bc the healthy ppl high tailed it away from me & didnt put up with my nonsense.

If ur thinking this sounds selfish (bc I didnt want to be selfish like my A's, so I was afraid of loving myself first) I can assure you it is not selfish, this is self preservation. I am a considerate person and nothing can change that. In fact in loving myself first, Ive gotten more compassion for others.

Happiness is an inside job and you can change if u want to. I was depressed and suicidal for twenty years, I know how bad it can feel. I was fixated and focused on other people. It's no wonder I was hopeless, helpless and depressed - I am powerless to change or effect them but I can change my own perspective and with that a changed life.

As long as u focus on ur A (sober, dry or not) u are feeding the disease. If u want to stop doing that, focus on you and change it. I am living proof it can be done, if I can do it anyone can and so can YOU.

Priscilla83 · Senior Member

I don't think not reacting is bending to them. It's not letting someone have that much power in your life. I love a message in this site that says "I can throw fits and dishes and telephoes to an alcoholic, in the end I'm only teaching him to catch my bullshit" or something like that.
If you react and get upset, you are only husrting yourself, he will probably just turn around and be all happy and if you are anything like me, you will end up feeling like you are gonna cough up your liver you're so mad. So, see, you will only be hurting yoursel.
Take control over you and don't let his bs take your peace and your serenity. And if you definitely need to freak out read the greats tips Jerry gave on my post "Tired" on how to throw a temper tantrum LOL

(((DY)))

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

D we have no idea the damage the disease has done to their brain. Sometimes I see being an addict as a mental disease. Where I guess it is, as well as physical. This is what I have experienced.

If you knew he had a brain tumor would you be able to accept his irratic behavior?

I put myself in his place. If I had to work all the time to do my best not to be "me" an addict, I would have a tough time for a long time.

They don't just have to stop using. They may be learning to even say,"how are you," and really want to know!

I had to think of "recovery" as a map for them to go by, instructions how to live in a non addict world.

Can you imagine trying to be an addict?

My A, when in recovery has a recovery plan. All thought out, to follow. Talks to hp every day all day. Works on honesty, being true to his word, accepting things, not manipulating, not making excuses, thinking of others, asking questions and listening.

Not using of course, if he messes up he apologises etc.

This is a lifelong in many way a struggle. After awhile the new accepted behaviors, well some of them become habit.

This is all my esh. I am fortunate to have an A who is open with me about the disease he suffers from.When he is in program he talks different, acts different. He likes it when he is himself.

That did not mean we did not fight sometimes but it was normal stuff. He did not always feel good. It is never like living with a non A.

Maybe if you researched the disease you might be able to come to terms with it is a disease they are born with. How can we get mad at that?

BUT of course we are going to react sometimes and be upset. Would not be human if we didn't.

It is called a baffling disease for a reason. I get so confused sometimes still. I think is it him, is it the disease?

How do I feel about it? Do I want to go see him? What will it do for me? I know he appreciates it, he makes that clear. But I put me first now. I won't drain me to do it.

anyway You are going thru a very natural process. When I realized the bitterness and anger was hurting me, somehow it all changed and it became sorta like cardboard. Just did not react anymore. Knew it was a waste of energy.

HUGS, sending a wish for a day of pampering. debilyn

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

do you have the book Getting them Sober. Toby Rice Drew (the author) has some very good insight on reacting to A's. I know it is very very easy to get sucked into their drama. There is a contagious quality to it. You can pull yourself out of it. You can stop wanting something you can't get. In Al anon we say that we don't go to the butchers to buy bread. In some ways asking an early recovery alcoholic to meet our needs is doing just that. Of course you have needs and you deserve to have them met. At the same time expecting an alcoholic to do that is like stumping your head up against the wall. You are absolutely in the right place. You are here and asking questions. Now you need tools and practice and feedback and reflection. In some ways we over react because we don't give ourselves time to think. We go on auto pilot. you can take the button off and start a new way of living with or without the alcoholic. No one here is going to tell you jack him in now this minute. We do have tools, suggestions and ways of being that mean serenity without or with them.

Try them.

Maresie.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

yep, it is totally frustrating, for sure....

Two thoughts, both of them "program-related"

1. "I need to stop going to the hardware store for bread" - think of the insanity, where we keep going back to our (mostly) unavailable emotionally A's for stuff....

2. My sponsor used to remind me to think of my A with a large "SSS" tattoe'd on her forehead for "Sick, Sick, Sick" - he then went on to remind me that I need to stop expecting a "sick, irrational person to behave in healthy & rational ways"

I know the above things don't "solve" anything for you, but the reality is that he is likely going to keep on this rollercoaster (I love you - I hate you - I love you - Go Away - I love you - You're the problem - I'm the problem - Bob's Your Uncle) for some time.....

Take care
Tom

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

I have no idea how long your bf has been sober but if its less than a yr he is what I lovingly call Stark Raving Sober = dosent have a clue what he wants or how he feels as they change thier mind every 5 min .
Al-Anon is not about bending to anyone or anything , its allowing u to have choices u can rise to the occasion and fight those stupid fights or walk away and I agree with tom , going to an alcoholic for emotional support is like going to a hardware store for a loaf of bread , ain't gonna happen , find a sponsor someone u can talk too , double up on your meetings and get the focus back on you where it belongs .
Sober is not about just not drinking it is a attitude , and its all in the Big Book of AA = all they gotta do is work it . there is a book called Living with sobriety , that will help u understand what is going on , also dilema of the alcoholic marriage is awsome for learning how to communicate . both are Al-Anon books.
U say u have read all of the literature , read it again and this time do what it suggests , every page has a solution if your looking for it . We have to change too not just the alcoholic .
Sometimes all an alcoholic can do is just NOT DRINK = and that has to be enough , one sober day beats a drunk one any time . Hang in there it will get easier .

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Dying...I just love how you ended that post...I related to how I found out what
I needed to find out when I first got here...I had no idea what sane or rational was if
you looked at what I was doing and not doing and saying and thinking at the same time.

How does a SANE person not react to such insanity? If you are still reacting as I got it
I stopped using SANE to describe myself. If the situation was irrational and I was still
in it than I was a part of the insanity no matter how, or maybe inspite of also, how I
saw myself. The solution for me wasn't in the thinking or talking about the situation it
was in how I was walking it...doing the lessons that were put in front of me by others.
I could never think up those lessons while I was participating in the disease and pointing
my finger out at other causes for my problems...alcoholic included. When I was still
into reacting I was still on notice that the work (of the program lessons) needed to be
on going...The proof wasn't about her being an alcoholic the proof was that I was crazier
than a coot and dumber than a stick. I found out that the only problem was me and the
only solution was God and that I would eventually arrive at what the program promised
me if I kept up the work...peace of mind and serenity. "If you keep and open mind, you
will find help" from the closing to our face to face meetings is a real promise. I know and
I'm not very different than any man who has gotten into the program to have his life
saved.

If you went after your Higher Power as strongly as you went after your alcoholic/addict
what would be the outcome? That question was put to me and I didn't know until I gave
it a shot. The out come...well give it a try and find out.

In support (((((hugs))))) smile

Dyinginside · Veteran Member

To all of you, you're words mean SO MUCH to me! Thank you all for the wonderful support
I'm frustrated with myself for not grasping this whole Al Anon concept. My fears overtake my needs/wants.
I am very new to recovery so I'll give myself some time to really absorb and work this program.

Jerry : " If you went after your Higher Power as strongly as you went after your alcoholic/addict what would be the outcome? "

WOW! Those are some powerful words and I'm going to think of this often.
And you're right, there is nothing sane about my actions anymore.
More than ever, I need to get myself focused
Thanks

Abby: he's been sober 18 months. Stopped cold turkey and went to AA after I left him for the 20th time. But that time, I went to therapy and knew I was not going back. But it was not his drinking that ever made me angry, it was his ways, his character, his attitude which I didn't understand at the time was attributed to his addicts.

He came to me and told me for the first time he needed help, joined AA and to give it a chance. He's never come to me when I left, this was the 1st time.
Today, because he stopped drinking, he feels he's ok now. He's not done one step nor does he have a sponsor. but he goes to AA 2 x a week. So he's "cured", in his mind!
I like that "stark raving sober" He sure is. I liked him better when he drank.
I do go to him for emotional support like any couple does, but you are SO SO SO right, I'm going to the hardware store for bread. He's dead inside. In fact, his kids also suffer the effects of his "deadness"
I'll check out those books. THANK you so much

Canadian: I'm at the point where I think maybe I am the crazy one since he seems to pull the wool over my eyes, stays calm when we fight.

I know he's sick cause I'm not that far gone (yet) where I don't get that how he talks is crazy! He shifts blame all the time.
I'm actually the one who does the "Love you, hate you, leave, come back"
An action I NEVER did with my other relationships. I just cannot understand why he acts the way he does.
He's so smug and thinks he's healed cause he stopped drinking. Tells me I am bi polar and need to take medication.

Maybe my brain is overloaded, but I cannot put into words how bizarre this whole last year has been
He will also do the "I never said that" when he just said something.
Or when he would throw verbal abuse at me then deny he said it to make me think I'm nuts.
I once broke up with him for 2 months because he was brutal with me one day. He then went out and had sex with someone right away saying he did it because I left him for someone else. I told him I left because he was verbally abusive and he said "I never said that to you, you make it up for an excuse to leave"

He dnied every saying what he did. He does this ALL the time!

SO HOW NUTS THAT IS! Who does this?
Thank you for your input

Maresie: I'll check out the book for sure. I need the tools, the will and the LOVE for me to make these changes. Why is this so hard? Do I hate myself?
Thank you

Debi & Prisilla, you both make some very strong points. It's so hard for my mind to register how to heal.
Debi: he is open with me about his issues, and he is in AA, did stop drinking and suggested couples therapy and a AA couples group and we went, so I think "Well he wants to get well and work on everything" so this is why I think, maybe I am nuts. Maybe I need to just let things go.
This relationship started with him chasing me (big time) and for 3 yrs me in the "Drivers seat" to him knowing my major vulnerabilities now and using them against me. I lost my power!

I have SUCH A HARD time calling his addiction a "disease" because he just stopped drinking and goes to AA and really believes he's OK. Maybe he's just a jerk?
He's so calm and laid back and me, always angry and never happy.
Truthfully, I think he enjoys that I am now the one insecure and trying to get his love.
When we met he was SO jealous and questioned Everything I did! I used to get mad at him because I am the most trustworthy person and I used to tell him "Your insecurity is yours to work on, I am not betraying you in ANY way"
He used to be so angry with his jealousy with me that I wanted to leave him

Since he joined AA, he's been sneaky, secretive and my gut was telling me he was doing something behind my back. Well I snooped and found out he's been on line flirting with women, he now blatantly stares at other women to the point where his neck breaks. I used to point out women to him that is how secure I was. I asked him to not be so rude and stare like he does, but I see he does it on purpose now.

He also admitted he slept with someone else when we had a fight when I left him 3 yrs ago. He was also on singles site and it was so obviously like he wanted me to catch him

Now I am the insecure one snooping and questioning and he says "I'm going to leave you if you don't stop harassing me"
Then I would say "Well you were like this so you know how bad it feels"
Then he will say "you're crazy, I was never like this"

See the MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is when it's hard not to react and say "You AHOLE, are you nuts etc"
He seems to enjoy my pain.................seriously.
I know he's in pain from life and not drinking, but is this normal for behavior for someone in recovery?!

KItty: thanks for our words of strength and understanding. My mind is much clearer after reading your words.

I am very depressed and yes, some day, suicidal.

I need to add, his ex Gf before me was a serious addict and he left her because she attacked him many times. He met her 4 weeks after his wife of 18 yrs left him, moved in with her with his kids. They were still fighting and name calling and hanging up on each other when he stated to date me. Talk about ignoring red flags! His ex GF also attempted suicide and to me, he understood this as her love for him.
I was in two long term r/s before him and I never got physical, yelled or named called. His darkness infected me!

Last night at my meetings, everyone says to me "You are so gorgeous, smart and so independent, love who you are"

I have SO much going for me. I live alone, have a home, a great job, in school, good friends, loving and "normal" family, and lots of other things and I stay focused on this mess and the insanity.

Sorry I said a lot here. I have so much I need to get out

My BF also used to snoop through my pc and he would find the sites I posted on and signed up with different names and stalk me. He has NO access to my pc but I am sure he checks for posts on Al Anon sites for me. I hope I didn't give up too much info here where he would figure out it's me.

Let me know if I should edit any of this

Life doesn't have to be this hard

Thank you ALL of you!

-- Edited by Dyinginside on Friday 11th of December 2009 09:43:55 AM

Dyinginside · Veteran Member

Just one last thing, this person who is my BF is not like this all the time.
He is 10% bad and the rest is a good person in a lot of pain and in denial

He loves his kids more than life, loves his family and is a hard working guy. I just don't want to make it seem like he's a monster all the time.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"