Al-Anon Family Group

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Leave vs. Stay, Strong vs Weak, etc.
Post Info TOPIC: Leave vs. Stay, Strong vs Weak, etc.
canadianguy


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 2962
Date:
Leave vs. Stay, Strong vs Weak, etc.
Permalink  

Hi all...  this is a posting from Toby Rice Drews (author of the Getting Them Sober books), reprinted with her permission, regarding the potential for sending the wrong messages when we say well meaning phrases like "stay strong", particularly with respect to the major "stay vs. leave" decisions, etc...  Hope it provides some good insight & awareness...

Tom



Post a reply

telling self or others, to "stay strong"

Postby toby » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:28 am

What happens when we admonish ourselves to 'stay strong'?


It puts undue burden on ourselves.

It's understandable that we slip into thinking that we "should be strong".
Here is why it's so important to try not think of ourselves as "strong" or "weak".


What happens when we think in terms of "one must be strong"?

a. Let's first talk about when others tell us to 'be strong'. Or 'keep strong".

People think, when hearing this, that it is good.......after all, who wants to "be weak"? Or who wants to be considered to "be weak"?....

But, almost all of us are going to vacillate--- go back and forth on feelings, actions--- at least 8 times ---or 80 times----- before we 'land' where we want to finally be-----at a place that is good for our own unique situation.

b. Then, what happens after we post for help------and we read a reply that says, "stay strong" from a well-meaning person?

We at first, think, 'oh yes --thanks for the reminder! I'll do that!"

Then----- reality sets in----the anger dies down for the moment----- and we miss them---- we go into whatever we go into, in our heads---- and we DON'T "stay strong" (whatever that means to you).

And then what? We feel shame. We get scared to post that "we reverted"......again.

ESPECIALLY if we have gone back and forth dozens of times-----and we're scared that people are rolling their eyes at us. What then?

Many of us then retreat into silence, and don't post.

We're just too ashamed to let people know that we "were not strong".
Or we post and 'admit that we weren't strong'......and we do it with shame and wonder "what's wrong with us".

c. What do most of us mean when we admonish someone to 'stay strong'?
We almost always say that to someone when they HAVE LEFT a situation...... like, "great! now STAY away!"......or we say it to someone when they 'stood their ground'....... or 'told him off'.

**** But when we "weren't strong"----- we are thinking to ourselves, "I'm not working my program enough! I'm reverting to old thinking!"

The same shaming applies to all that.
When we again stop telling him off-----or we go back home-----or we tell him we love him-----or we call him------or we obsess and don't stop thinking about how awful he is----- or whatever----- we do it with shame.......for, we remember that we were told to "stay strong".

And we weren't "being strong'.

It's not only important to not admonish oneself for "not being strong"....... but also ----Please do not post and tell others to "stay strong"..... OR ANY OTHER VERSION OF THAT.

For goodness sakes, we ALL know that it does not feel good when we return to bad situations or obsessive ----or any non-peaceful------ thinking!

***** We all know that it feels not-good when we revert to old behaviors. THAT feels bad enough. We don't need to feel shame on top of it.

We will ALL work through our particular dilemmas of whether to stay or leave or all the in-between options----- WHEN we are allowed to do so WITHOUT PRESSURES OR PERSUASIONS. Al-Anon is SO wise. It says, "we do not give advice."

And-----the paradox is, we all find our own ways, in our own time, on our own path-----when we ARE allowed to do so without pressures or persuasions---- overt or covert -------- SOONER THAN IF WE HAD HEARD THE WELL-MEANING BUT SHAMING WORDS, 'STAY STRONG'. ........ love to all, Toby
Last edited by toby on Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.


__________________

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

"What you think of me is none of my business"

"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"

 

 

 

 
supermom


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 52
Date:
Permalink  

Tom,
Interesting post.  Thanks for sharing it.
Supermom

__________________
hotrod


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 17196
Date:
Permalink  

Tom,
Thank you for sharing these thoughts.  It was a great reminder to me that in this program I have felt both  the strength and gentleness of these rooms 

Today I believe I can be strong and gentle at the same time. An idea foreign to me before practicing these principles in all my affairs.

Hoping Everyone Has a Great Thanksgiving.

 



__________________
Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud
maresie


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 4578
Date:
Permalink  

I'm no longer into the stay leave option.  I'm in the recovering option.  I do think it is possible to "recover" in a relationship with an addict.  I am not one of those people who judge, shift around or even think I know what's best for anyone.  At the same time I do know for me personally recovery is right now every bit as painful as living with the ex a was.

Maresie.

__________________
maresie
Diva


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 2188
Date:
Permalink  

All too much for me.  I call myself, "strong" because I am.  I have faced, head on, every crisis of my life.  And, every time, I have risen like the proverbial phoenix to conquer whatever threatened my well-being.

Having an A in my life has offered a whole different set of challenges, and there are times when I doubt I can cope.  But my strength always sees me through.  Do I sometimes vacillate?  Yes, of course.  But my inner strength always surfaces and leads me down the right path.  Always.

I never feel shamed when someone says, "stay strong."  to me those words are an affirmation of what I already know.  I have never felt embarrassed when, for a time, my strength took a powder.  It's still there, and it will surface to prevail.

Am I special?  No, not really.  There is strength of character and purpose in most of us.  It lies in wait sometimes, but when we grab for it, it's there waiting to be renewed.

Convoluted, suggestive thinking always leaves me wondering.



Diva


-- Edited by Diva on Tuesday 24th of November 2009 10:41:45 PM

-- Edited by Diva on Tuesday 24th of November 2009 10:44:25 PM

__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
ThisIsBlythe


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 31
Date:
Permalink  

Wise words Tom, that needed to be said.  I am glad that you shared that.

Our addicts are so down on us, so critical often, that we have already been beaten down to think we are not enough.  We come to recovery groups to heal from the emotional abuse, to REDISCOVER our inner strength and sense of dignity and self respect.  We only complete that journey when we are treated with respect, kindness, and gentleness.

So many people do not understand that leaving is a PROCESS, not a big dramatic single event.  That process is hard enough in itself, we do not need to make it harder by admonishing people to artificially hurry the process.

Diva, I understand your point also, but your post comes from a position of great inner strength and personal dignity.  Those things are aquired in different ways, from life experience, being loved and taught to be strong from loving authority figures like parents, or perhaps from gentic gifts, what used to be called "personal fortitude".  I too am a strong person, but I have come to understand that not everyone has been given the life gifts that I have been given, which helped me develop that inner strength.  Not everyone had things like a loving and healthy family of origin where they were cherished and loved, which allowed them to draw on that strength and comfort when life threw adversities at them, like marrying a violent addict. Not everyone has a loving sister with a big new house and plenty of room to invite them to stay in and make leaving the addict easier.  Not everone had a supportive family to help them get back on their feet.  Shockingly, some families URGE the victim to stay in the abusive situation! 

This is why I have learned not to judge others who do not seem to be able to make good choices for themselves, I have learned not to admonish them to "stay strong" or to not do anything they are trying not to do.  I have learned to just offer UNCONDITIONAL love and support, and let them know that learning to love ourselves and make good choices is a JOURNEY and I am simply part of their "pit crew" to help them on their journey, no matter how slow, or stagnant, or even backwards at times.

And who is to say that I even know what a good choice is for someone else?  Some people don't have the resources to leave an abusive relationship, and so flounder until they end up with another abuser out of desperation, sometimes worse than when they started.  Only an individial can make choices for themselves, and a good friend will simply stand by and be their support system.  The urge to feel that "we" know what is good for another person is simply another dimension of the control issue that so many alanoners have.  We have to keep working to get rid of it, and simply work on getting out own lives under control.

Thanks again Tom.

__________________
Diva


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 2188
Date:
Permalink  

Oh no, ThisIs Blythe, my post was not meant to judge others.  That is something I would never do.  It is just that I object to blanket statements that make assumptions that none of us can take a simple statement in the spirit in which it was intended.  
 
I feel the greatest empathy for those who lack strength because of past circumstances.  And I realize that my strength comes from my family background as well as my DNA.  But I often rely on sheer will.

I am reminded of one person here on MIP who always ends her posts with the words, "Stay strong."  I know she means those words in the most positive, caring way.  When I read her message of "stay strong" it reminds me of exactly what I need to do.

One more point:  I have made it clear from the beginning of my involvement with MIP that I do not feel that I am any more nor any less than anyone else here.  Whoever we are, there is one thing that weaves a common thread between us: We are all doing the best we can, each in his/her own way, to deal with an addict that has affected our lives.

I do not have  sister with a big house to whom I can run to flee the addict in my life.  I go it alone.  Believe me, it is easier going when I can turn to my MIP family for help and understanding.

Happy holidays to you and yours TIB, and thank you for your input.

Diva


-- Edited by canadianguy on Wednesday 25th of November 2009 01:21:02 PM

__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Rocky38


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 447
Date:
Permalink  

Thanks Tom for the prevocative post. It's really got me thinking. My take away is that I should be sensitive about possible unintended impact of statements I make when posting to another. I also think that it reminds me to share ESH not opinions or judgements.

Thanks for the post,

Yours in recovery, Rocky

__________________
There is a God. I am not He.
ThisIsBlythe


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 31
Date:
Permalink  

Sorry Diva,

I did not mean to imply that you are a judgemental person.  On the contrary, I have always been very impressed and learned a lot from the great kindness and empathy you always show to all on this board.  I can see how you got that impression though, from the wording in my post.  I responded to your words in a general  philosophical way...as in how many others feel who have stated those words to me, not you specifically, but that was not clear since I mentioned you in response.  I apologize.

I greatly admire your personal strength and fortitude while never failing to show the utmost kind compassion to all on this board.  I understand your words and once again apologize to you for not choosing my wording more carefully and not making my meaning more clear.

I too like the words "live strong" but in a general cointext, not spoken to someone in a specific situation to continue in a specific course.  To me "living strong' is learning to take care of ME and not sacrificing my dreams, goals, and life for someone else, especially someone like an A who would not appreciate it anyway.  It does not mean being coerced into doing what some people think I should do, like divorce any A.

Like most women, I had a couple of "false starts" before I learned to "live strong" on my own.  I left my A and came back about three times before I left for good.  I lost a couple of "friends" those few times who thought they would support me by refusing to speak to me if I went back, they told me not to call them until I left for good.  That did not help or support me AT ALL.  In fact, when I left for good it was I who refused their calls!  The best help and support I got were from the few real friends who loved and supported me through all of the decisions I made, good or bad.  Their love and support gave me the strength to finally make good decisions for MYSELF without being coerced into it.  That was my point I did not make very well.

Sorry again and I hope you understand.

Blythe

 

__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Leave vs. Stay, Strong vs Weak, etc.