The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Last night my exaH came to pick up our son for a group they belong to. I thought I smelled booze on aH, though I didn't notice any "affects". Then again, I thought I smelled booze. And they left. The hour that they were gone all I could think about is why did I do that? I know why I didn't say anything (what's the use?) but why did I think I smelled booze and send son anyway?
The plan was for our son to spend the night with Daddy, but I asked aH to bring our son home first after their club. I told aH that I felt our son was safer at home tonight, that I knew aH had received some difficult news from his doc today and that I think its better that our son just be home with me tonight.
Well, exaH is really mad at me. REally, really, mad at me. Feels victimized, that there is always something with me, always some problem I have, that he hasn't been drinking, what the hell am i talking about, I have serious problems, that he can't be expected to live by my every whim and crazy thoughts and accusations....etc.
I told him that I can only go on what I think, that his information has proved unreliable, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong...but I have a childs safety to think of and I am only doing what I feel is right. There is no gain for me having to restructure the plans based on my belief that he's been drinking.
aH denies drinking completely, of course, they always do. But what if he's right? What if he's telling the truth? What if I didn't smell booze? Then what he's saying is true.
The way I see it is that I'd rather be wrong and know that my child is safe, than be right and put my childs well being in the care and control of someone who is drunk.
And at the same time, I don't want to amplify the hardship this separation brings to everyone....
I think it really does not matter if you are wrong. I have always found that my suspicions were right on. Don't take any chances with your child. If they are actively drinking at other times then you never know what will happen when he has the child.
My son is in rehab right now but I am trying to decide what my boundaries are going to be when he comes home. If I think he is drinking then he is drinking. I will not listen to any excuses or ask any questions. I am going to know by gut feelings. I don't need to smell anything or look for evidence...I will know when I watch him.
His children visit him at my house so I guess you could say we are a kind of supervision. I will go to ANY lengths to keep my grandchildren safe....bottom line!
My husband called me crazy too, when I would accuse him of things that were TRUE. It was a great tactic because then I would second guess myself. Maybe I was crazy? The blameshifting is suttle and powerful. Somehow before the end of the conversation, I was always wrong.
I wasn't.
The actions aren't aligning up with the words. Trust your gut. IP
If you ex is drinking or not, that is his business. You can only go on what you know. For me, it took a LONG time before I could stop being concerned with how my ex may feel or how he may react. Most of my life was based on what I anticipated his reaction to be or dealing what his reaction was. Not really living. When it comes to my kids, now, I could care less if I am angering someone else or hurting their feelings. I really do not care. The safety of my children is my number one priority. If another "adult" doesn't like that, well, then they really aren't much of an "adult" now are they? And they are NOT putting my children first. And that goes quadruple for my ex.
If my ex gave a hoot about our kids, he would do whatever it took to ensure that our kids were safe (and I mean emotionally too) with him and that I could begin to trust that he was not drinking/using. Whatever it took. And if it took me keeping the kids because I had a bad feeling, he would accept that. Not rage at me.
Again, that is my experience and my boundry and my found strength from this program.
My ex-AW swore up and down that she had not been drinking, even after being told by my (then) 5-year old daughter that "Mommy had gone to the bad store".... She even confronted our daughter (awful scene), and told her she was mistaken.... An hour later, she admitted to it....
Just another example of the lengths of lying and cover-up that goes with their disease.... sometimes you have to trust your instincts....
T
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
A's are masters of deception, blame shifting and throwing doubt on the truth. Deep down inside we know when something is wrong, but this disease makes us doubt ourselves until we do not trust ourselves to make good decisions. Our program teaches us to trust our ability to know if something is wrong or not safe. It does not matter if the A is drinking or not. What matters is that you feel that something is wrong with this situation and it is not safe for your son. It could be that he is just a dry drunk, but that can be just as dangerous or unhealthy as a drinking A. Just the fact that he got so very mad at you for that one stupid thing would tell me that he is unstable and not someone my child should be around today.
Look at his behavior if you want to know what you should do. Ask yourself, is he unreasonably angry? Is he blame shifting? Is he trying to make me doubt myself? If any of these answers are yes, then its a good bet your instincts are correct and your son needs protection. And even if you are wrong, so what? If you find proof positive that you were mistaken in the future, that is what Step 9 is for, right? And in the mean time, your son is safe and has been taught that it is expected that healthy adults stand up to protect themselves and the children that they are responsible for.
In recovery,
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
I've had my AH do the very same thing - try to convince me I'd lost my mind or saw things I didn't really see, or said things I didn't really say, or that he didn't say or do things he most certainly DID say or do. I've found in my AH that he is a compulsive liar. The disease has him on auto-pilot when it comes to being confronted with needing to be truthful about something... and that auto-pilot reaction is automatic denial. Play stupid, admit nothing and for good measure tell the other person they're being unreasonable, psycho and crazy.
My sponsor tells me often, If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck.
Living with this disease has really made me second-guess my instincts a LOT. Being told I'm wrong even though I know I'm right so many many times has had that affect on me.
I had one instance where we had some handymen over at our place taking care of some tiling work. They left and then one of them called a little later asking if he'd left an important tool over at our place. I never saw the tool and looked around and didn't see it, so I told him "No, doesn't look like it's here." But you know what, even when I told him that, I actually felt like I was LYING to him. Even though I wasn't! He didn't make me feel that way either... it was all in my head.
You are no dumby, you smelled it. We can so easily go into denial it is not funny. ME too. My A said it was his own deoderant. oh brother.
If I had a using father A, I would never leave him alone with him, never. That is me. My kids were and are the most precious things on this planet to me.
I believe to always trust intuition, it never hurts to. I don't care about hurt feelings, an A is an A. It is a disease, it is not personal.
Inside he wants his child and you to be safe. He hates what the disease makes him.
Aloha Rora...You all have been tugger around and beaten up by the disease of alcoholism...cunning, powerful and baffling. For me it's not about being right or wrong but being affected. We have a slogan in program about what do you do while you are trying to learn a certain tool of recovery..."Act as if". You are "Acting as if" and should there be a finding that you were wrong that is taken care of by a sincere apology while you are still working a program of recovery. You may have smelled alcohol and it might have been only psychosomatic or our mind telling us something is real based upon prior belief...like a dry drunk. If you have custody...you have custody. If you don't do what you need to do to hurt him personally you are doing it for some higher reason. "You don't have to like it...do it". It takes years to recovery from this disease and some of us never make it.
ahh Rora , you know what booze smells like . Learn to trust yourself and go with your gut . too bad if hubby gets upset have u ever know an alki to admit he has been drinking ?? Your son depends on you to keep him safe , trust what your seeing and smelling not what he says . Louise
Is been years since i've seen a beer in my husbands hands or seen him eat a pain pill. Honestly, the only time I am certin he is messed up is when I see him sloppy. Other than when he is sloppy, he's really good at functioning under the influence. Once I started learning more about this disease, I have started to notice when he was functioning normally in a black out state. The first time I ever realized that he was blacked out and awake was when he almost drove us into the back of a parked car. Yep, I though he was sober, I never would have gotten in the car w/him had I know differently. It was a strange experience to realize that he was talking to me, driving but competely unaware. A few weeks later he and I were chatting and I asked him how did he now know that car was parked and not moving. He did not even remember the incident. Now I'm no dummy, but this disease is smart. It makes the best of us think we are insane by what our eyes and hearts are witnessing. I dont have any children, but I do know the things my step kids have gone through with their dad / my husband. I just thank GOD that they were never killed while they were in the vehicle with him. From experience, I'll let you know that there were many times when my step son would get home and say, OMG, dad was about to kill us in the car. I'd ask him, why did you get in the car with him, his answer was, so he wouldn't hurt himself. My step son was 6! Go with your gut! Trust the mother instink! When in doubt, DON'T. Don't let your kids become his "caretaker".
Yep. trust your gut with an alcoholic/addict. Funny, reading this I realize that my stbah never lies about his drinking or smoking. He is very open about it all. I thought your post was going to be about how we know if our loved ones are addicts or not... some days I wonder if he is one, or if I am just overly sensitive. In the long run, I have to figure that TO ME, he's an addict. And if he's not, I am still dealing wiht some sort of high dysfuntion in his life, and therefore in my own. And because of that, I am here at Al Anon because somedays the dysfunction runs so rampant, even tho it's all out in the open and is honest. He isn't good about keeping dates, or remembering things we've talked about. He would rather go to a party than stay home and snuggle, even if the party is with people we barely know. He's often not on time, he falls asleep in the middle of the day-- sometimes even when we have plans to go do something, he takes a quick nap first. He doesn't have any friends who aren't drinkers/pot smokers.... he doesn't have a regular job but works under the table for different people we know. He sometimes doesn't get paid in cash, but in credit at bars or in bags of weed.... he doesn't have a life plan or big dreams-- at least nothing long term, and the short term goals aren't personal or inner life goals of meaningful endeavors-- they are pragmatic like "Finish the house to a point where I can get a mortgage on it." Wow. Some dream. Here I am, wanting to canoe all the way to the ocean and hike the continental divide... here I am, wanting a higher degree so I can open my own practice. Here I am, wanting a nice but humble house, and another baby... I don't know. Sometimes it all seems pretty much like I could explain him as "He's just a hippie" and everyone would understand the sort of dysfunction I'm talking about... he's a slacker and pot smoker/weekly drinker/sexually dysfunctional porn collector... but he's also an intelligent, creative, peaceful wholesome person. He eats well and excersises... he's healthy (so far, at age 48), he flosses his teeth. He told me once, sort of in jest "I'm a pot addict and a porn addict" and even tho it was a joke, it was all I needed to hear to know it as my truth.
WE don't live together. I dont' know if we ever will. Sometimes I think won't end up getting married because sometimes it seems like we are going in different directions. I just got a house- it's my dream house-- and I love it. I am going to spend my money and time fixing it up. Meanwhile, his house is HIS project. I used to like to buy him sweet little do-dads for it to make it nice while it's under construction, and I will continue to support his hard work and his very artisitc/thoughtful if not slightly grandiose vision for the place... when he finishes it, it will be a one of a kind really nice nice home with all the right amenities to make it a place I might even like to live, or a place that he can ask top dollar for. I really do think he'll get it done... maybe not for 4 more years, but eventually. Only lately have I wondered if he will ever actualize his dreams there. But he's on the right track. He was living in a big van for 4 years up until 2 years ago. He had a restaurant then, that wasn't making any money, despite his constant working there and cutting corners. He worked 117 days without a day off once. The man is a good worker, if nothing else. And he's disciplined... has the same routine every day. So now that he has a house-- he gutted it, and is starting with the foundation... it made it so solid. He bought old used beams from when they tore the bus depot down, and those are being recycled in the house. He put in 3 sky lights and got scrap granite to make into countertops. He put in an on demand water heater, and is in the process of installing radiant floor heating. He has a lovely wood stove in the heart of the house, with a window so you can watch the fire burn. I think sometimes the house is an analogy for his rebuilding of his own infrastructure. That he's changing as the house improves, that the house is a similie of his soul. He's a big man, with a big heart, and this is a big house. If it takes him to sobriety... well, I'm not holding my breath about that. He's pretty entrenched in his life style. I'm co dependent, but I do a good job adhering to my own boundaries. When I don't feel like I can help wihtout it costing me, I don't help.
He's pro-woman and supportive of me being me and being strong in myself. That helps. I wonder about marrying him... about being tied to the dysfunction and if not haivng my own space would make me crazy. I can be his life partner, but I don't know if we should live together. I'm babbling... sorry. Back to you: You did the right thing. You divocred him. He's not your problem any more, neither is the way he feels.
