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First of all, I want to say I'm glad I found this board and I apologize in advance for the long rant coming. I've been doing some reading to get more information, and it is now clear to me what is going on with my husband. I am in my second marriage (almost 3 years) and was married the first time for 22 years. I have three children (two are adults, one teen), and he has two adult children and four grandchildren. I only drink occasionally (maybe a glass of wine or a beer a couple times per month when we go out to dinner. I have never been an alcoholic or a smoker, my parents did not drink or smoke, although there are/were alcoholics on both sides of my family. I have seen it from a distance, but I had never lived with one. My husband has been married 2x before, both long marriages. Both women left him and they both drank to where it was a problem (from what he told me). He grew up in a very abusive family (verbal and physical). Both of his parents would fight each other constantly. They divorced when the kids were older. His dad remarried, but his mom remained a very angry person. He has sisters (no brothers), and one of his sisters is extremely abusive to everyone (I only met her once...this was what I was told). My ex husband abused pot (he was high the night I met him, but didn't know it until after we were married). He could hide it well. He didn't really have the dry drunk syndrome, but he was extremely ADD. My oldest son is bipolar and ADHD with anger problems. I won't allow him to live with me because of his behaviors, and he refuses to go back on his meds. He lives with my ex who allows it to continue. My ex never disciplined the kids, esp the oldest son and it was all left to me. I finally left him and set major boundaries. I was so excited when I met my current husband because he was so different in personality and it was so nice to actually have fun with a man. He has a very vibrant personality, very friendly, down to earth, very handsome, and treated me well in the beginning. He told me upfront about his drinking problem from years ago, and had been dry for 15 years. He said he had to attend anger counseling during his last divorce on a court order, and that's when he decided to stop drinking. He and his ex had a very nasty divorce at the time. He did not attend AA, and he told me it was because he didn't want to hear about everyone's rock bottom stories. At the time, I thought it was great that he was strong enough to not drink again and to be so determined (I have never seen him drink in the four years I have known him). He was taking Zoloft when we met until after we were married, but stopped shortly thereafter because he thought it caused too many sexual issues. But now, I have been seeing unacceptable behaviors for the last two years that have brought me to the point of making alternate plans for myself. He has: extreme anger over the smallest of things, unrealistic expectations, overreacts to minor issues, seems not to care about my feelings, esp when he is in "a mood." He is very difficult to deal with when it comes to important discussions about anything. He is extremely sensitive and takes comments wrong (no matter who says anything). He also says very hurtful things when he is mad, and over something I have done (i.e., who the f*** do you think you are??!!?). He does not deal well with stress. He makes alot of offensive, angry remarks, some racial, and is very judgmental. For instance, we are driving down the road, someone needs to get in front of us, and he will grumble that they are just hillbillies who think they deserve special treatment. He will brake on people behind us, and give them the finger. He will give me dirty looks, and walk out the door when I want to talk about something with him. It's very childish. Many times, I walk on eggshells around him. We attended marriage counseling last summer to help us work on communication, but the counselor did not talk about this as a possible issue. He behaved well for her, and it seemed to work for awhile. But now, he refuses to ever go to counseling again because he said he was so humiliated. He also has a very pessimistic and negative view of things lately.
We have experienced major stress since we were married (my teenage son was diagnosed with Juvenile diabetes and was very sick for awhile, my daughter was diagnosed with autoimmune thyroid disease, we moved, I lost my job, and we have been fixing up his former home that was a total disaster from renters), both his parents, other family members, and close friends passed away).
I have been through alot in the past with my former life and my bipolar son, and am a pretty patient person for the most part. I went through alot of counseling at the time, was involved in mental health support groups as an attendee and went through facilitator training for my volunteer assignments. So, you would think I would have noticed more in the beginning. I have found myself at a point where I do not recognize who I am anymore. I have been extremely depressed, tired, and just wanting to get away from him so I can have some peace. I went through menopause (still am) the last year which doesn't help. Last weekend, it came to a head. I told him we had to sit down and discuss things like adults. It was very difficult. I calmly told him that we both needed help, and I would go on my own to deal with my own issues. He could go with me, or by himself. He had admitted to me several times that he knows he has issues, but doesn't feel he needs to go talk to someone about them. I brought up the topic of dry alcoholism, and I really thought it was great that he successfully quit drinking, but he fit the symptoms. He didn't get mad or disagree at first, but then made a sarcastic commnet. I told him I did attend a women's crisis group (did that last summer), and they were the first ones that brought it up. I stayed very calm, and believe me, it was hard. I told him that our marriage would not work if things didn't change. He does not want to go through another divorce, nor do I, and that he does love me.
He did also admit to me he was afraid I would leave him like his other wives. So, I do feel he is very insecure deep down inside and that having tantrums makes him feel in control.
One more thing, I get along very well with his first wife (the mother of his kids), I never met the second wife, and I met his last gf he had for two years. She is very nice, and I did have a conversation with her last year about him. She told me he treated her the exact same way, and I believe her. It took her over a year to get over him and the verbal abuse. His children treat me with respect, we get along very well, also. I am second grandma to the boys, and always get kisses and hugs.
My husband deep down is a very generous man, he would give you the shirt off his back. He has alot of great qualities that are being masked by this, I feel. We do share things in common that we both enjoy and can laugh alot at times over silly things. When we got married, he freely shared everything he had with me, and I did the same with him. So, I feel there is hope here, but I think it's going to have to be me to get help for myself. Maybe then, he will decide later for himself. If I don't help myself now, I won't be able to take care of anyone else. Thank you so much for listening!!! I appreciate it.
Edited to say: He gets along very well with my by daughter and younger son, but I do worry about them seeing his behaviors. My youngest lives with us half the time, the other half with his dad. He has not witnessed these behaviors because my husband so far has managed to keep it under control when he is here. However, it has come close a couple of times, and I told my husband that I will never tolerate him losing control in front of my child. He has been through enough dealing with his parents' divorce, his brother, and also his diabetes. He needs peace when he is here.
-- Edited by flower5361 on Friday 2nd of October 2009 12:23:11 AM
Welcome to mip! What a great share, it was so easy to see where you are. (o:
From what I see, it sounds like your husband may be a dry drunk. When a person stops using they have not worked on anything else from the disease of addiction. The using is only a tiny part of the disease.
Addiction has many symtoms, selfishness, lieing, inconsistant behavior, anger problems, manipulation, blaming, unable to take any wrongdoing on their shoulders and more.
A recovery program is a map for an A to follow or refer to to stay on their path of recovery. My Esh is my AH, learned to be honest, caring, to ask questions of people, to really listen, to think outside his box, and more. All this and sobriety.
Al Anon will help you so much. If he becomes part of AA and has a program and a sponsor, he would feel better. But it is not our business. We have no control over, nor can we do anything about their behavior or disease.
Al Anon helps us to learn to look at our own part of the relationship. The skills and truths we learn can make it possible to understand the A better so we know how to respond or not respond. We become more comfortable in our own skin. Their disease makes us sick too until we learn not to respond to it. Which is not easy.
I know I was affected when my AH even had a cold. So the disease was even harder,
It is the disease making it so hard for you two to be able to have a comfortable relationship. The disease gets worse as time goes on.
My husband had the same upbringing as yours did. So much the same. So those issues not dealt with will always be haunting one. I did not drink, smoke or anything. Had wonderful family. So when I feel comfort from those memories and love, think about what the abused person thinks of? How awful.
Anyway glad you are here. You have made the first step to getting your life back. Face to Face meetings would be wonderful for you. Just get yourself out the door.
Thank you for your response and link, Debilyn. It really does help to hear that I am not the only one in this situation. There are a couple of groups really close to my home. Does your husband know you are involved with Alanon? I am afraid to say anything to him about my going there because of the reaction I got when I told him I attended a women's group last summer. I only went one time. I had called this group one morning, and as luck would have it, they had a meeting that morning! Two hours later I was sitting there. It was helpful. My husband told me his ex went to same group years before, and he felt they conspired with her to divorce him. It was not that way at all in my experience. The reason I went in the first place was because of the way he was handling our stress and the reasons I stated above.
I also find it interesting that alot of stories I read about on the boards have family members that have grown up with unstable homes and lots of abuse. You are so right....it's very, very sad. My home life may not have involved addiction or physical abuse issues, but it was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I am the oldest of four, so I had alot of expectations put on me, and my dad picked on me constantly. Maybe a bit of emotional abuse. That's another story, LOL, but I am ok with all of it now for the most part.
I tried so hard to raise my kids in a happy home, but it didn't work out that way. Living with a child with bipolar disorder is very difficult and puts major stress on everyone. My son is an adult now, so it is up to him to take charge of his own illness. I did all I could over the years to help him to be able to be independent, but ultimately, I cannot force him to do anything. All I can do is set my boundaries. Something my ex has not learned to do yet. This is what enables my son to get sicker, I feel.
It's a bit ironic that my life would almost resemble once again living this way. My husband, although I do not believe he has bipolar disorder, has many of the same behaviors as my son! My husband will not let my son abuse me in any way, but he will turn around and act like him when he loses his temper. I have discussed that with him.
One thing his exgirlfriend told me is that she could see he seemed different with me. She never met his family; I met them right away. He told her he would never marry her, he never said that to me. She said she was glad that he seemed happier. We both agreed that if we met in another time, we would have been good girlfriends. We are somewhat alike in the way that she drew boundaries with him, too.
I will say on a positive note that my husband will apologize to me for his behaviors most of the time. He will come back later when he is calm and admit he was wrong, and that he is very sorry. I know he really means it at the time, but after awhile, the apologies won't mean anything if the behavior continues. We have also discussed this.
Are your husband's parents still alive? I was just thinking as I write this is that alot of these symptoms in my husband really escalated since the death of parents, both within a short time frame. We do talk alot about them, and how he grew up. He seems to have a need to get things off his chest, but I also think he feels some guilt saying things about them since they died. I only knew them for a short time, but they were very old and had dementia. I know my husband had an ok relationship with them at the end, but I don't think he ever came to total terms with his upbringing. He only has one sister he has a decent relationship with, and she has shared alot more things with me about their upbringing that gives me chills.
Debilyn, you are so right about their disease making us sick. That's exactly the way I have been feeling. I used to have alot more confidence in myself, but now I second guess everything I do. I didn't even feel this way when I was raising my son, but I was so busy I didn't have time to think about myself. I feel I can't trust myself anymore, and has affected other areas of my life.
Right now, I do not believe my husband would ever go to AA, or to anyone at this point. That is his business. I am going to have to learn how to deal with him better and take care of myself so I can move forward.
Thank you again for sharing about your situation and for the links! I would love to hear from you again to let me know how things are going.
There are many things that could be "wrong" with your husband. You can learn many many tools in al anon of how to deal with your feelings and his behavior. Most of them are not about speculating why he is behaving the way he is. I do think boundaries are hard going when you have not had them.
I lived with a man who had alcoholism and drug addiction as many other issues which surfaced gradually over a long time. I do believe very very strongly that had I been boundaried, less naive and less desperate I would have seen the red flags.
I do well understand how absolutely frustrating it is to live with someone who is verbally abusive, apologizes and then does the same thing.
Al anon is full of incredibly wonderful tools to help. One is to get busy so you don't have time to speculate and obsess about him. Another is to learn detachment which is really an art form. There are incredible people here on this board who can help you with that. They certainly are a great example of how to work a program.
I hope you will give al anon a chance. Nothing happens overnight. Your pattern of behavior with your husband did not start overnight. Changing is tough going. Do you notice I say nothing absolutely nothing about him. This program is all about you. If he wants to change he can, he has resources, you do too. If you change he will have a glaring example of that someone can change and his defects and issues will be even more apparent to him to do something about.
Debilyn, I read your profile after my last post, and I have to tell you we have another similarity. My husband and I love animals, and have rescued dogs and cats before! Currently, we have one dog and two cats. We just rescued our last cat from his mother's home. She had 7 cats living there alone since she died. Long story, but they were supposed to have been removed from there last year by other family members, and we recently found out they were still there. We tried to rescue two of the seven, but the other one had to be put down from feline aids. We have been unable to get the other cats out because of their behavior issues, and they need to be trapped professionally. I keep in contact with my dog's rescue foster mom, and have thought about volunteering with them. My husband just LOVES animals.
He had been in jail before a couple of times years ago, but mainly because his ex wife had called the police on him when they argued. I checked out this background (he knows this), and everything he told me about his arrests were true. I read all the court documents, so at least I'm glad he told me the truth.
I hope your husband continues to improve with his treatment. He is so lucky to have you!
Thank you, Maresie. I totally agree about keeping busy. That's one thing I don't lack around here, LOL! Although I do not have a *regular* job right now, I do own a home based business where I use my creativity and sell my items in shows. My busy season is right now. I also spend time with friends, and my daughter and I have really come a long way in the last several years. She lives in college, so we try to plan fun things on the weekends from time to time. I was in a car accident last winter, so that has really kept me busy trying to settle my case (forgot to mention that stress earlier). I'm doing it without an attorney, and believe me, now I understand why they charge so much, LOL! We just finished rehabbing a home (took over 2 years), and it sold after only two days on the market just recently. I am so happy about that!! We haven't closed on it yet, so I am crossing my fingers. After some of things are finished and out of our lives, I am going back to looking for regular employment, possibly returning back to school. I have so many things I want to do yet.
I have to learn to tune out the negative things with my husband so I can concentrate and become once again a productive, happy person. You are right....he needs to see me as a different person so perhaps it will inspire him to want to do the same.
flower5361
-- Edited by flower5361 on Friday 2nd of October 2009 12:28:38 PM
I would highly recommend Getting them Sober the book by Toby Rice Drew. There is a web site. That is an excellent primer. There is also a great primer on detaching at www.coping.org.
I stood on my head to try to get the ex A to change. I was absolutely obsessed with it. When I stopped and focused on myself everything changed. Needless to say he didn't change I did. That is what al anon can offer you the chance to not be so obessed with what he does, his issues and where they orginated from. Caring does not mean giving up your entire self.
Hey flower! I don't really have anything to add to what the others have said, but just wanted to say welcome!
I am glad you found us and I hope you do decide to get to a face2face meeting near you. There you can find a sponsor who can be a real help to you in your recovery. I know it may be really hard as he may throw a ringtailed tizzy about it, but it really is about you not him, so if you can get there, please do.
Ok, well, I guess I did have that much to say. Anyway, Welcome to the board and keep coming back.
In recovery,
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
Thank you again, Maresi and Jen for giving so much good information. I did find two meetings close by that meet on Monday nights. I almost went this past Monday, but felt a little uncomfortable about it. I also called one of the contact people last week (really nice man) who doesn't go to those meetings, but one across town. He was very generous about being open about his life which I appreciated. I just kept looking for more info online, and found this site. I already have been changing my thought processes and feel alot better about things because of the short time I've been here. I noticed already his mood changed alot faster just because I didn't react to something he said to me tonight.
Jen, I'm not going to say anything to him at this time. I want to attend a few meetings and see how things go first. Maybe if I change first, he'll be affected in a positive way. Then, it may be easier for him to accept it. It is about me. I guess that is part of the selfishness of this disease....on their part. They can act however they want without thinking about the consequences on their family, and yet get mad when the family needs help because of it. Denial for sure.
