Well you said it yourself, there is no excuse for a man to touch a woman in an aggressive way. No one can control anyone else. No one is responsible for our actions. but us. 

The one way to look at it is. She is sick. If she had cancer, was in a diabetic hypoglycemic mode, acting crazy, a person would never take it personal or blame her.

When we live with and or love a using A, the disease makes us sick too. We don't react the same as we might if the disease was not present.

It is good you recognize that what you are doing is wrong. The disease make us sick.

When we get into Al Anon we learn a lot of truths that really set us free. We react different, and or we don't react at all. We look at them differentl

No one can bring us into an argument. We choose to join.
To give flip comments is arguing, it is putting fuel on the fire of a very sick addict. It's like kicking someone with a broken leg.

We get what we put out.

As far as making her confess, snooping in her stuff, that is breaking  boundaries too.

Their disease is their own. It is none of our business. It is our business to keep our children safe around them.

When we react negatively and join in, the other person is controlling us. We can choose how we want to respond or not respond at all.

Like yelling at someone who has a cold, and their sneezing is bugging you.

Al Anon teaches us to only take care of us. That the A's life is their own. We would not want someone snooping in our stuff, or making us confess.

They don't use because they are bad, they use because they are an addict.

Detachment for me was I loved my AH, but hated the disease. Two separate issues.

You answered yourself in your question. You cannot go on like this, so what are your options? We always have them.

If I were you I would get some books on anger management. It may give you some insight on how to not react to the disease. I am a very mellow person, but two times I threw things into the wall I was so frustrated by the disease. We can only take so much!

 I like the book,"Getting Them Sober." It helped me to see my AH was sick.

Keep coming back. love,debilyn



-- Edited by debilyn on Saturday 26th of September 2009 12:03:58 AM

First let me say that you are definately in the right place, and you are not alone.

I too felt pushed to violence by my AH. I was the one who hit him. That was the last straw. I knew I could not go on that way. I had to have help. I was not going to have my children raised in a physically violent household, and it was no more ok for me to hit, than it would have been for him. I threw myself into my program and found my answers. I came here, went to f2f meetings, and used my phone list often, sometimes daily.

I don't know what your options are, but I know you have options. Get to every f2f meeting you can. Get a sponsor if you don't have one. Get the focus off of her and onto you, so that you can get quiet inside and hear your HP speak to you. It works, but you have to do the footwork.

Keep coming back.

We didnt cause it, we cant control it and we cant cure it.

We dont have to join every arugment we feel were invited to, thinking first and walking away while someone even suspected to be active (would in my opinion) be my first choicethere are a few phrases to help diffuse a potential escalation, Im sorry you feel that way and you might be right.

Being a family disease not only does your daughter witness her mother being in an active state she sees bruises on her too?

I hear your frustration and apologize for saying this but there is never an ok reason for laying hands on another human being. please keep coming back working it to find solutions, they are available through this program.

You found the right place...where people who've been exactly where you've been all gather together.  F2F mtgs are like that too, even better!!!

I understand what you are saying about feeling pushed to extremes that you'd normally never even consider that you were capable of.  I think the disease does that to the A as well. 
I've been in similar situations to this as well and felt the same as what you seem to be feeling...that the situation has become ridiculous, frightening, and too much to bare.

I like the suggestion of the lock on the door also.

Rora

Thanks for the replies, I rushed down this morning to see what advice there was so I could reassure myself I wasn't going crazy!

Me and the GF had a chat this morning. I read an al-anon leaflet and read out a few paragraphs from it that resonated with me;

The weapons of an alcoholic.

How the disease affects the wider family.

We agreed that there were things that we both did wrong, my anger and her disease.

I re-iterated my boundaries and the consequences. I re-iterated that my boundaries had been totally violated and that I should have walked away, instead I was sucked into the argument. The GF said she was still in a bit of a state of shock as she thought I was going to kill her last night, when I was pressing my arm across her throat. To tell the truth I felt like it.

She had had a chat with her sister (who unfortunately lives 400 miles away in the south of england) and her take on things was basically: GF stop drinking (and do the AA meetings, talk the talk) and me do some anger management, which I could have told her for the price of nothing.

In fact I did have a real anger problem a few years ago and sought help from a clinical psychologist. I did CBT and it really really helped me out. I have dropped out of the thought process so time to re-visit that.

Hopefully the Buddhist classes I am going to go to will help me connect with my HP and help me with my spiritual development. I have faith but it's just not of the Christian kind (which I was brought up in).

The GF said something interesting this morning - she contrasted the thought processes that were going through her head. As I suspected, she had been drinking (it's been a case of her buying alcohol and drinking it upstairs in the "spare" bedroom - it's not really "spare", it's my other daughter's bedroom for when she comes to stay. She is 6 1/2yrs old and lives with us for about 40% of the time when she comes from my ex-wifes)... so I can't really put a lock on that bedroom either.

From the GF's point of view, she said that she was only trying to talk and wanted to sort out things after our argument. She couldn't understand why we had the argument.

She said that it was strange how a relatively small amount of alcohol can change someone's perception.

I pointed out that from her own admission she had had 1/2 bottle of wine. That's not a small amount of booze, and the fact she is still drinking isn't really on.

Anyway, by this time it was starting to get into co-dependency talk so I just re-iterated my boundaries and went for a bath.

I went to an AA meeting at lunchtime in the city centre.
It was very refreshing. There was a diverse mix of people - 19 people, 5-6 women. Ages from early 30s - late 60s. Many people sober, couple still drinking. I didn't say anything because I was't sure if it was an open meeting so just listened and had a chat with the facilitator afterwards. He recommended coming with the GF so she could find a sponsor there. It's an option but seeing as we have next-to-no childcare the GF will have to go to AA meetings herself whilst I'm at home whilst our 2yr old is asleep.

The common themes I could identify from people's lives where very very upsetting.
The emptiness and loneliness of the disease. The fear of living or death that drives people to drink. The compulsion to drink etc. That was quite upsetting to listen too.

The woman in her late 50s who drinks 2 weeks-on 2 weeks-off. Describing her house as looking like a party has been there, waking up with bottles everywhere. But she resisted the urge to drink today.

The woman who was in her late 20s/early 30s who was dual addicted-food and alcohol. She was in a real state. She was resisting the urge to drink.

The facilitator who had been drinking for 25 years and had lost his family, his house, his business. But he was now sober and had been for years. He was happy, he had found his place.

I'm going to an al-anon meeting tonight, it will be nice to be there and I'll share some of the things that have happened and also see if I can borrow a book to read. I need it because otherwise I am just going to go mad quite frankly.

I've been communicating with a friend who I can potentially go and chill out with for a weekend in a couple of weeks who lives 2hrs by train away (after my other daughter has been to stay here), it will depend on university work (as I've also just started a 1 year postgraduate degree!) but I think it will be really helpful for my mental health.

Thank you all again, it's helping, it's really helping me.

abbyal wrote:

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Well I understand your anger but sorry pushing a woman around at any time is not an ok thing with me .  violence will get u nothing but jail time .  If there is any doubt that u need help hopfully the violence of last nite will answer your question . Asking an a if thier drinking is a waste of time most will lie , and it makes no difference  there is still nothing u can do about it . they do what they do . When we react and argue this disease wins , and it jsut gives her another reason for drinking one more time .
Please pick up some literature , our OdAT   - daily reader is awsome for newcommers  quick fixes and solutions to the dilema of living in our situatations . Your two yr old is also being affected by the behaviors u and your g;f are exibiting , yes she hears the arguments , yes she feels the tenison this is not a good situation for anyone .
Accept that alcoholics drink -- period and look after your own needs
as for boundaries theyare personal things to me telling an A what they are is like waving a red flag in front of a bull , you set the boundary and if anyone intrudes , thats when action is needed on your part .

---

Thank you.

The events of thursday certainly resonate with me.

 

Tonights al-anon meeting was mostly about feelings, it was very good. A lot of us shared how we really "felt", how we hide from our feelings.

 

I felt rather humbled after the events of thursday and going to the AA meeting today.

 

The readings we had tonight were very good too, all about feelings and re-capturing ourselves. I think that's what I've been doing - losing track of "me" and the anger & frustration that comes with it.

I often have to go back to the beginning... remember and practice step 1. We are powerless over alcohol, we are powerless over the alcoholic. I am working on recognizing my own anxiety and taking steps to a time out... out of the room, out of the house, into the bathroom.... sometimes it doesn't feel good, but follow up with readings and meetings. Welcome.

I can tell you that I was in a 7 year relationship which was equally volatile, destructive and overwhelming. So I am not here to judge you.  I certainly acted out numerous times over the ex A's behavior.  In Al anon I learned to detach.  I learned to stop screaming and shouting.  I learned to take care of me.  I learned not to have those 8 hour fights. 

I am not someone who is going to tell you that this situation is out of control.  I lived out of control day in and day out for 7 years.  The situation only got worse. I came to al anon and I got better. The ex A did not get better.

I would suggest and I am not judging you in any way since I lived, ate and slept that lifestyle for a long long time, that you submerge yourself in Al anon.  I know all the issues of wanting just the right people to be there.  I did not want to go go al anon for years for that same adage.  Nevertheless when I jumped in I learned a lot. Lstopped participating in the chaos.  You can too.

I hope you will jump through that door.  You deserve peace.  You deserve sanity and your child does too.  Please notice that I have said absolutely nothing about your girlfriend's behavior.  In Al anon we adopt the saying the three C's.  We cannot change them, we cannot control them and we cannot cure them. I did equally crazy, upsetting nasty things to the ex A to get him to stop.  I did not manage to hit him as he was many lbs stronger than I was but I screamed, raged and blamed him for years.

You deserve help.  You deserve to get it and you deserve to take this situation very very seriously.

Maresie.

HI J

Thanks for the honest update.  Your clarity about your powerlessness and the serenity prayer is inspiring.

Good Luck at the Wednesday meeting. I do hope you can find that male sponser.  

Went to a different al-anon meeting last night.

It was wonderful - there was such a welcoming atmosphere in there.

It WAS a bit strange going into a different place, especially as there was loads of laughing and joking when I went in, felt a bit weird that! They were a lovely bunch though.

A good mix of men and women - there were a couple of older guys, one of whom I may ask to be a sponsor in a month or so.

The chair read a wonderful piece from the big book - step 1. It resonated so much with me I had to go first for my share straight afterwards... I think it may have been a bit overwhelming because I just poured it all out, it was a bit like a huge "wall of me" flying out, good though.

Had a nice chat with one of the guys afterwards and felt quite calm going home. Ironically enough the bus was completely full of really drunk students going out for the night, it all seemed completely surreal and I was just looking at them all feeling completely out of it! weird!

thank you for letting me share.

x

hotrod wrote:

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Hi J

Great News regarding the new meeting. 

I love meetings with a mixture of male and female and some laughter.

It does feel great to share and connect at the meetings.  Good Luck with the sponser

---

It's a dual meeting with AA, the meeting is held in one of the local Quaker friend's meeting house. In one room is the AA meeting and across the hallway is the al-anon meeting. One of the older blokes who goes to the al-anon meeting, his wife goes to the AA meeting.

Hi Jitsuka, I'm new here myself (just joined). My husband fits the dry alcoholic....hasn't had a drink in 15 years, but exhibits the same kind of behaviors. This is my second marriage. My first marriage ended not because of alcohol, but because of the mental health disease of my oldest adult son, bipolar. Lots of the same symptoms. Anyway, I have copied this part of your post:

- my ex-wife being a completely unreasonable nightmare, trying to disrupt the share parenting arrangement we had for our (now 6 1/2yr old) daughter.

- the ex-wife then decided to take the matter through the family court system. This was probably the most stressful period in my life and nearly caused me to have a mental and physical breakdown. It nearly totally broke me. I had to self-represent myself in court (could not afford to use a solicitor), with the help of Families Need Fathers, a charity promoting shared parenting, I got through it and we now have shared residence (i.e. joint "custody").

I TOTALLY understand what you went through. My ex is the same way, and I had to go through a custody battle that went on over a year after I married my second husband. During that time, my youngest son (my other kids are adults) was diagnosed with Juvenile Diabetes which almost took his life. My ex wanted full custody, but was not awarded it. We have shared parenting, the same as you. My son was with my ex when he got sick, and returned him to me in critical condition while he went off on a trip. Since then he has tried again to get full custody, but everything was cancelled when his attorney found out he allowed the bipolar older son to live with him. Right now, I have a plan with my youngest son to escape his dad's home if need be since legally he has to be there. He is almost 17 now, so he's old enough to have his own boundaries.

Your post got me thinking. If my ex ever found out about my husband, he would RUN to the court to get this started again.

Perhaps I need to find a meeting far from my home. I realize meetings should be kept private, but you never know.

Do you feel comfortable in your meetings? Does your ex know about your AGF?

flower5361