The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I was talking with a few program friends when this subject sorta came up. One friend was discussing how she has learned to "take care of me (hereself) by dressing up, and really glamming up, as well as by learning to stand up for herself and no longer let people walk all over her. She mentioned an unkind comment that someone made at her place of work, and how she stood up for herself and responded as to the innappropriateness of that statement by pointing out it was incorrect. She then shared that it took a lot of growth for her to get to that point, that she no longer tolerated blatantly disrespectul commnets spoken to her face, that she would no longer be people's dormat and allow them to dump their hositlity on her unchallenged.
I supported my friends effort to regain her self esteem, to not only take care of herself, but to learn to stand up for herself and no longer be willing to be someone's emotional punching bag. Isn't that part of what Alanon is all about? Supporting each other's efforts to get well and regain our battered self esteem?
My other program friend then began to express extreme caution, pointing out that you can have "too much" self esteem and then think you are perfect and can't learn anything. That it is important to never think too much of yourself, because then you may not be humble enough.
I was rather puzzled by this statement, but I have learned to keep an open mind and have been thinking about this...
Of course there needs to be a balance, but I have not met an alanoner who has too much self esteem, it is usually the opposite problem, that we have been beaten down with so much emotional abuse, so many insults, so often been the lowest priority in our A's life, that it is a lifetime struggle to have an real self worth.
I know for myself, I have had a REAL struggle to regain any real self esteem after so much emtional abuse from my A husband. For fifteen years I have heard NOTHING but things like:
"I don't tell you how you look ,because I have already told you, I DON'T LIKE the way you look and you should know that by now...why should I repeat what we both know?"
"Why don't you go move to the ghetto where you will fit in with the other slobs" (Said to me afterI gave my sick cat a hug and got some cat hair on me and he saw it before I could get it off).
"Don't even bother trying to "slander" me and tell anyone I am an alcoholic because they will never believe you, my car is nicer, I make more money, I have more degrees, I am better looking, and people most people know better than to listen to stupid women running their mouths".
"If you EVER try and "slander" me and say I am an alcoholic I will SUE you for slander, and I will win since people have seen me on TV, I just have to tell them how lame and stupid you are, not like they can't easily see for themselves..."
"I don't know why you bother to try and make friends, people can see how stupid and lame you are, can't you see no one really likes you?".
"Now I see why some say people in my professional might as well be in ivory towers since people seldom understand what we say, I am SO high above you in intellect, intelligence, ability, and education that you simply are incapable of understanding what I am saying, that is the only reason why you disagree with me." (Words spoken to me when I used to try and tell him why drinking and driving was NOT a good idea, legally, morally, or even statistically).
And this is how he ALWAYS sounded, not just when he was drunk or angry.
I suffered in isolated silence for over ten years before I finally poured out to my doctor, in tears how I lived. He said he coulnd't believe it! He said I needed to know that most people looking at me and getting to know me would NOT share that viewpoint. He then told me I needed to go back to alanon.
It took years and years of really diligent concerted effort to regain any real sense of self esteem, most of what worked was learning from alanon that Alcoholics really hate themselves, and so project that onto you. I began to realize that my family and friends did not share the A's feelings toward me...as my sister would say "consider the source". But it has been a long road to reall internalize that the A's view is a minority opinion.
Since then I have even learned to take risks, such as enter my artwork in that art show I shared about. I continue to get healtheir with the support of alanon and my friends and family, but it is STILL a struggle many times to not feel down about myself, that I am not good enough to do some things I want to do.
Anyway, I have been thinking about those comments my friend shared...can you recover too much in Alanon? Can you have too much self esteem?
My experience is that someone with too much self esteem is usually suffering from a mental illness called narcissum, it is a true mental illness, and very disabling. Can you "develop" narcissisum from too much self esteem work?
I am hoping people here, expecially onces with lots of recovery under their belt, who feel they have regained their self esteem, can share some of their ESH on how they find balance in their lives in this area.
I am also thinking that perhaps this is a case of "misery loves company" and some people who struggle with extreme self esteem issues, often find people with higher self esteem "stuck up", "full of themselves" and "narcissistic". They think that being down on yourself is a normal state of mind and feel uncomfortable with others who openly express feeling that they are worthy of basic human respect and kindness.
Anyway, this has me thinking, I would appreciate any ESH people have to share who have traveled that long road of having their self esteem trampled on from abuse, then rising above it.
I know many people that have built their self esteem back up in recovery. I do not think you can have too much self esteem. The ones that REALLY do are humble about it, are not braggarts or do not gloat. When you have REAL self esteem, there's no reason to tell others. You don't feel the need to.
Someone that has low self esteem, but pretending to have the real thing will sometimes stand up for themselves loudly in victim mode...and then go tell everybody they know how they stood up to the bully with their self esteem. Someone with REAL self esteem would either not bother defending themselves (because they see no need), or they may state what they have to and forget it.
Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
For me, I am usually swinging between good and bad when it comes to my self esteem. I am feeling really good about myself and confident, or like I am the worst person in the world. I know there is a balance, I have yet to find it and live in it.
Alanon has helped me tremendously in my search for center. For contentment.
Narcissim is a personality disorder. It doesn't have much to do with self esteem. It is more than just thinking highly of ones self. Malignant narcissism grows from abuse and is baffeling in it's own right. Most narcissists are outgoing, charming people who, when behind closed doors, become monsters.
My ex has NPD (narcisstic personality disorder). It is hard to diagnose as many therapists are snowed by NPD patients. Those of us who live with and have been abused by NPD's are sometimes the only ones who truly understand how awful a disorder it really is.
I do not think that a person can have too much self esteem. Maybe they can be too pridefull, or arrogant but those are usually signs that their "self esteem" is false.
When I first found out I had choices and that I no longer had to accept unacceptable behaviors, I went around making sure everyone knew that I had changed!!
I believe I have learned to take care of myself more gracefully than a few years ago. I think....LOL!!!
Anyway, I would say being supportive of our friends who are on this journey is always a good thing!!
Dear MP, First, I'm sorry you had to deal with the barrage of verbal abuse in your relationship with your ex. Unfortunately people like that exist - my ex, as another example. For me, as I learned to speak up for myself again, it was really a process of learning how to do so appropriately. It took making mistakes on both sides of center for me to learn not only 'when' to speak up for myself, 'when' to set a boundary -- even once I got better at that, the "how to do it" was also part of the learning process. I reminded myself "progress not perfection." That is what it sounded to me like you were doing -- you were supporting your program friend's progress in speaking up for herself. "progress not perfection" I also see narcissism as a different concept than self esteem. Perhaps like the difference between being bi-polar rather than how a healthy person experiences the whole range of healthy emotions. For me, having grown up in an alcoholic family, I didn't have healthy role models. Not having healthy role models for the "how" to set boundaries, "how" to stand up for myself, etc. makes learning these tools for living as a healthy adult a little more challenging. I have to keep my eyes and ears open to see how others who I respect handle situations. Talk it through with my sponsor. You've raised important issues that many of us have to work through. Take care, emma
When I think of self esteem, I think it is just that....SELF esteem. I think it is another thing we cannot control for others.
I've been in situations where I've been defensive and "stood up for myself" and then tried to recruit support to justify that I did the right thing, etc, which really just has led me down another unsatisfying and unhealthy path. I really like Christy's take on this:
Someone that has low self esteem, but pretending to have the real thing will sometimes stand up for themselves loudly in victim mode...and then go tell everybody they know how they stood up to the bully with their self esteem. Someone with REAL self esteem would either not bother defending themselves (because they see no need), or they may state what they have to and forget it.
I am also thinking that perhaps this is a case of "misery loves company" and some people who struggle with extreme self esteem issues, often find people with higher self esteem "stuck up", "full of themselves" and "narcissistic". They think that being down on yourself is a normal state of mind and feel uncomfortable with others who openly express feeling that they are worthy of basic human respect and kindness.
I agree with this paragraph so much. I don't think that self esteem can turn into narcissism, but I do think that low self esteem can.
I think it takes a lot to rise above someone else trampling your ego, but it can be done. It's a lot like everything else, though. Every day is a new battle.
