The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
If so, how's that working or not working? I keep noticing that most of the people here love their alcoholics/addicts and truly seem to want to stay. Has anyone been past the point of no return but stayed anyway?
Hi Lotus - I've been doing this for a long time for a variety of "reasons" (denial, anyone?) and have finally reached my limit. After years of buying into the blame and guilt, I finally realized that (you got it) I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it.
I have started the wrenching process of filling out paperwork to file for divorce. This has been a very difficult decision for me and I've been second guessing myself and resisting it for a few months now, and I'm sure things will be even more stressful once the process is officially in motion, however I know in my gut that it's the right thing to do and that in the end, I'll be a happier, more stable parent for my kids.
I have one child left at home now - he's almost nine. The others are 18 and 20. The older kids are dealing with the affects of growing up in an alcoholic home. They've been introduced to AlAnon, but I can only plant that seed and hope it grows within them sooner rather than later like it did with me.
Can't say this really offers anything to anyone, but felt like I should at least respond to your post.
My short answer is "Kind of". here's the long answer:
I would say that having the kids (now 16 and 13) makes me want to try to make it work-- as long as they aren't being really negatively impacted. My A is not physically abusive to any of us- mostly just withdraws and sleeps a lot. Acts like a jerk when life doesn't go his way and sees using as the answer. THe kids do not know that he uses A and pot- they just think he is "weird" at time.Not a great role model but at least I don't have to sell the house, work full time, change the kids schools potentially etc etc etc.
Would it be a better home if mom and dad worked together well and loved each other? Yeah-- but that's not what we've got right now. But I also know non-A families that don't function as well as we do.
On some levels our home situation suffices--- on others, not so much. Do I "sacrifice" my personal happiness for the sake of the family? Maybe. Is this the "for better or for worse" part of the marriage vows? I don't know. All I know is that for today- it's not so bad. 2 weeks ago (when AH was out of control- read my old posts) it sucked. Do I love him any more? Probably not so much. But I do feel bad for him as a human being and I wish him the best BUT I can't do it for him either. I also trust him about as far as I can throw him. When his disease is active, he is lying like there is no tomorrow.
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
My personal experience in meeting adult children of alcoholics in real life and on the internet over the years is there have been very few who didn't have some tremendously painful issues to work through in adulthood because of an alcoholic parent in the home.
Neither of my parents are alcoholic, but my father is an untreated adult child of alcoholics, and there was much dysfunction in the home while I grew up. Anger was not an appropriate emotion, though now in looking back, I can see where an undercurrent of anger was always there.
My mother is the codependent, who spends much time wringing her hands, and if there is nothing to worry about, she will find it. She sacrifices for everyone else, and it hurts my heart. She has no sense of self.
My oldest daughter was around active alcoholics the first 8 years of her life, and it had a profound and negative impact on her. Today at age 31, she is an active alcoholic/addict unfortunately.
I have a younger daughter who was raised around the rooms of recovery, and there is a world of difference between her and her older sister.
I don't buy the 'staying in it for the kids' personally. I've seen far more damage than positive.
-- Edited by Tenderheartsks on Monday 20th of July 2009 05:50:32 PM
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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
I cut and pasted this from a post last year, on this very subject...
T
What are we really showing our children?
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Those of you who "know me", know that I am very wary of any insinuation of "strong = leave, and weak = stay" posts, or advice for people on the big stay vs. leave decision....
That being said, I offer up the following bit of E,S&H as a healthy reminder to look at things from all sides, when we are making our paths.....
A good friend of mine, in Al-Anon, shared a touching story with me that I will keep with me forever.... Her A husband was not physically abusive, but was a rager, and was horrible to both her and the kids when he drank.... They avoided him like the plague, and were scared when he was drunk..... She stayed "for the children", until they had both graduated high school.... This lady has a healthy relationship with both of her (now grown) children, and things HAVE worked out okay, but she had an eye opening conversation with her 23-year old daughter that I wanted to share....
They were having dinner one night, and reminiscing about the growing up years, and G said to her daughter "I hope you realized why I stayed.... I wanted you to learn about loyalty, perseverance, and keeping the family unit together". (How many of us have said the same?? I know I did!). Her daughter, without malice, told her Mom: "Mom, what you taught me was that it was okay to be treated like "xxxx" and be ridiculed and not respected". It took me a long time to un-learn these things myself. I love you, but I don't respect your decision on that one."
I share this with the intent of offering another viewpoint..... We are pretty quick to rationalize our thinking, but the reality is that even our own thinking gets clouded within the insanity of living the roller coaster life around an A.... I don't think the "right" answer for everyone is to leave - far from it - but I DO like to examine the facts, as they are shown to us. My counsellor had to (almost yell at me) - tell me "Tom, you are trying to save a white picket fence marriage, but guess what?? Yours is NOT a white picket fence marriage!"
Food for thought
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
OMG...........I can see myself having this conversation with me son. I have 15yr old boy/girl twins, and my son gets the blunt of the verbal abuse from my AH and and their AF. In the last year he has asked me and i have assured him that i would do something...........but i am still here. My son has asked me on more than one occassion, "how bad does it have to get?"... Just today he called me crying, his AF had accused him of putting a scratch on his rebuilt 78 Chev Truck.........proceed to tell him how worthless he is, etc... P (my son) has been putting up with this type of verbal abuse since he was about 8 or 9 years old. I have always taken up for him, which always causes a bigger arguement between me and my AH. One time he asked me why i was the only one who could discpline the kids and my response to him, was because you never praise them. All you do is put them down and call them names. Of course he didn't like that answer.
My AH owns his own business and on more than one occassion he as threaten to walk away and bankrupt me; if i leave. So, you guessed i feel stuck.
Well, my AH has come into the bedroom, so will need to end my venting until later
I left almost three years ago - in large part for the kids. I chose to marry their Dad; they didn't pick him.
While they still love him and get to see him on a regular basis - as long as he's not drinking - we no longer live with the day-to-day insanity of alcoholism. My kids couldn't understand (at 3, 5 and 7 then) why Daddy acted the way he did, but felt it was their job to make him feel better. They still feel responsible for him, though all three of them are in counseling now. When he couldn't tear himself away from his drink long enough to sing "Happy Birthday" to my oldest 3 years ago, I reached my limit and left.
I stayed "for the kids" which I see now as just my great excuse to stay. I stayed because I was scared to go. I stayed because I was scared of the unknown, of being a single parent, of what would happen to me.
I finally left "for the kids". My then AH was supposed to pick up our oldest from me at my work. He was late. I watched my beautiful little girl (11 years old) absolutly go thru all the stages I went thru when he didn't show up on time. I watched her getting nervous, then I heard her making excuses "probably a flat tire....maybe he ran out of gas..." then when it was obvious he was not going to show, I saw the pain in her eyes. That was the night I knew that my kids needed consistency and stability and that was the night I knew that I could give that to them and he couldn't. Ileft.
I can't begin to explain how much more relaxed, happy, and well adjusted my kids are today compared to what they were like when we lived with him. But the biggest change is my parenting skills. I am the mother I always wanted to be but felt like I couldn't be because I had AH's drama to deal with.
My own childhood was so screwed up, I can't really tell you if my parents stayed together for me or not...No idea.
But for me and my kids, I took a leap of faith. Best decision I ever made. My kids are genetically pre-disposed to this disease and mental illness....but their enviroment is all about recovery. I cannot control what will happen tomorrow, but just for today, I can give my kids a home free from drugs and alcohol. My home is a safe place for them. Always.
staying for the kids with active addiction, is a lame excuse that ruins their lives. Growing up to be an ACoA is very tough and extremely painful, complicated & creates a person full of issues to face for the rest of their life.
It is a tragedy. Kids dont have a choice, it is worse than a prison.
I was an extremely angry kid, ran away 4 times as a teen & got emanicpated at 15 y/o. All I could do is work & I worked very hard until I was 32. Not a fun life, honestly.
I was albe to make amends with my mom & we're close but it has been all me, working program, she hasnt changed or gotten therapy & I accept that. Her relationships are none of my business anymore. Im grateful I learned to detach with love AND to learn to love myself.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Excellent question Lotus. One I have contemplated for a very long time now.I have stayed for many reasons. All of which have been mentioned in the above posts. Another reason is that for right now he doesn't get wasted everyday. Yes i realize that this is a progressive disease. I am learning to detach. I have struggled so with this. I am finding that if i try to stay calm my household stays calm. I have been married over 20 years.... College is in the near future and i find myself wondering if i can stay once the nest is empty. I can fill my days with activities but my nights are the hard part. Was it the best decision to stay? I don't know. We have great family moments and then we have hard days. SO for today... I am still here. Taking it one day at a time. I am soooo glad you asked ths question Lotus. Thankyou.
I've been married to my AH for over 20 years and have one teenage child. I think I initially stayed before alanon because I thought his behavior could be controlled by him or by me. Since alanon, I've learned his disease can be arrested, with the help of his HP, not me. I also learned that I shouldn't accept unnacceptable behaviour and so detached with love from the disease and it's impact on me. I was fully aware however that my child couldnot do that so well. I tried to force many solutions to that, including throwing my AH onto the street. I could not do that and follow what I believe is the "detach with love" part of the program. I couldn't stick with the action - therefore it was wrong for me.
The HARDEST part, is the knowledge that I have not protected my son from the impact. I ask HP for understanding in the balancing act I do very poorly between my AH and my son.
The good news is that my AH is in recovery, not a perfect one, but who's is? My son seems very happy when he sees his Dad doing well.
Hey Penelope, I can relate to your post. We too have good days and bad days. Lately it seems like the bad come around more often. I have a lot guilt having my kids being sujected to his verbal abuse. I pray that they are able to reconize and overcome the effects of the abuse. I too am just taking one day at a time. Yes, thank you Lotus for asking this question.
Thanks Searching for Peace.. we too are having more bad days than good. Tonite was one of them. I used the "tools" i have learned here. I am going to try and pm you.
