The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have a very busy job and life, so no time for meetings, hence using this site.
My father was an alcoholic. He drank for years and then stopped drinking for 20 years. Although he stopped drinking, he was always a dry drunk. He was secretive and gave up on life. He became ill and died last year. He was 87. My mother said to me recently that she is glad he is dead. How can she say such a thing? She claims that he got what he deserved in that by his illness, he was being punished for his behavour towards her and me. I asked her why she stood by him all these years if this is how she felt and she said she always thought things would get better but they never did and a lot of things only came to light about him after he died.
She is glad to be finally shot of him. Someone suggested her reaction is due to bereavement, but I dont think so. She said the part of her life that she spent with hm is now over and in the past and she now has a new life. She does not want a single photograph of him or a single posession. She has wiped him out of her life and memory as if he never existed. Despite his alcoholism, he was my father and in some ways he was good and he did suffer towards the end of his life and I cannot just say I am glad he is dead because I am not. I wish he was still here.
I was angry for five years after my Mother died. Grief has many facets.
She may feel differently about your father later on. And I know my daughter is lots more sympathetic to my husband, often, than she is to me. You can't really know what your mother went through.
In the meantime, he was your Father and you get to feel about him the way you want to. It is abusive to speak ill of rhe other parent, because the child identifies with both.
My mother did it to me, (although, as My daughter says--he got a lot better after he died.) And I am sorry to say I have done some of it to my daughter. Not nearly to the same degree, but it is wrong.
I wish I had had the courage to tell my Mother that I didn't want to hear anything negative about my father. And after he died, she remembered the good things almost exclusively. He wasn't an alcoholic, so that made it easier, I am sure.
I am sorry for your loss. I hope that you and your Mother will both be comforted.
Temple
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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
p.s. I think that most of the people on here who have been around for awhile would say that making time for face to face meetings is some of the best use of their time they could ever imagine.
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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
A term I like to bring to mind when I'm around people who are grieving is "hurt people hurt people".
My father went through the same thing when his father passed away. I'm really not sure whether or not his dad was an alcoholic, but his mom is certainly a good Al-Anon candidate, and I guess when the family was making arrangements for the funeral and all of that, my grandmother said a lot of very unkind things about my grandfather. It left a lot of them - my father, aunt, cousins, etc. all feeling bewildered and hurt by her words.
The moment my dad told me this story (he was "warning" me about her behavior before I went to the funeral with everyone), I immediately thought about that phrase... "hurt people hurt people". Whether or not my grandparents had a fantastic life with each other or a really crappy one, there is still grief in the loss... and unfortunately, anger can be a symptom.
I would encourage you to look for a piece of Al-Anon literature called "Opening our hearts, transforming our losses". It really touches on the grieving process. Your mother is grieving, and so are you.
In regards to having time to make it to meetings... I'm a really busy person myself, but I tell myself "if I can sit down at home in front of the computer or television for an hour, I can spend an hour at a meeting." Honestly, my Al-Anon meetings have become my saving grace. I used to think "unwinding" meant staying at home, crashing on the couch... but now I get to "unwind" at my Al-Anon meetings.
welcome , I hope u change your mind about being too busy for meetings , you are the child of an alcoholic and like it or n ot you too have been affected by this disease . As to your mother saying she was glad he was gone ,I understand her anger and resentment I also understand her always hoping that things would get better , try and understand that the relationship between your parents is entirley diff than the relationship between father and daughter , you have no idea what she went thru . the kind of hurt she suffered goes deep obviously , I agree she is grieving the loss of what could have been should have been but never was . I have been married for 42 yrs 10 rys of it was pure hell none of which my sons know about nor will they ever know the things thier father did in that time . I have accepted responsibility for the fact that I didn't leave this marriage so cannot blame husb for doing what he always did , as I just let it happen over and over again , he was only doing what alcohlics do . Your mother has never recovered from her hurt and loss and that is sad , be patient and love her anyway.
Yes I understand what my mother went through, but despite everything she said my fathers illness was a punishment from God for his behaviour. She feels no symptahy that he really did suffer because she suffered with him alot of the time. Speaking to someone about my mothers attitude, they said My father could not help his attitude because he had a problem and that was alcoholism so whatever he did was not deliberate so in a way he can be excused. He was not like a rapist or a murderer who are scheming calculating people who deliberately go out to do what they do for their own kicks. My father did not deliberately go out to hurt my mother and in a different way, me. So when he became ill he could be shown some sympathy. But at first my mother was sympathetic but she is not now. She is glad he got ill and suffered. My mother is a strong believer in God and goes to church and I am thinking if she told all of this to her church and the Pastor, I think they would not take the same line, because God is a forgiving God and does not go out to hurt people and make them ill to pay them back for somethng like this which is an illness and so in a way, actions cannot be deliberate.
As for Alanon meetings. I literally do not have time for them and also meetings are not really for me. I have tried them. At meetings you just sit and talk, you never get advice and I came here looking for advice. Yes you can listen to other peoples stories at meetings and pick up something from them, but you never get proper advice on your situation from a meeting and besides, my work is very busy and I am also studying for exams so I do not have time for a meeting. I work until 7pm and go home and study and then the same thing the next day and at weekends I go to my study class and then I have to clean my house and shop, and so all my time is taken up. Anyway I dont like alanon meetings but have spoken to alanon members on the phone from time to time on a helpline and now on here.
Also, what I find dfficult to take in from my mother is her new found attitude to my father. He was an old man and frail so he was not able to go out and about for a number of years to the same extent as he did before. Therefore, he could not get to AA meetings and my mother accepted that. He also did other things. He joined and went for a few years to a painting class. Then again, as he got older and frailer he could not get to the class and sit there and paint. He was not house bound but he just did not have the energy to go out to do these things anymore. My mother understood and they both just made the best of the situation.
Now, she is complaining about him a lot. She has said some very wicked things about him. She told me a few days ago that in her opinion he was the sort of man who wanted to be the best at everything and if he was not the best then he did not participate in things. She mentioned his painting class. She said he left because he was not good enough at painting so if he could not be the best painter, he did not want to continue the class. I reminded her that his old age prevented his attendance and up until that time, he was quite happy to go along. She would not have it like that. She also said he had given up on life and even AA. I also said that he was too frail to get to meetings and do a lot of the things he used to do. she said he used to play Jazz CDs and she complained that he played them, telling me she did not like Jazz.. So what, he liked Jazz and she did not. Why not let him listen to music he liked instead of complaining that she was forced to listen to them too. Is he not allowed to have some music of his own? He also used to play the Saxaphone years ago and stopped playing and when I asked him if he would play again, (this was only two years ago) he said he did not have enough puff to blow the instrument again. My mother said he was lying and that the real reason is that he was rubbish and was no good at playing so he did not want to play if he was not good enough (another example of her thinking he wanted to be best at everything or not at all)
I do not like my mothers new found attitude and am quite angry about it. How dare she kick him to the kerb like this. She had one attitude when he was alive and now she is really kicking him down like a dog I do not think it is fair at all.
(((( newbie )))) wow there is a lot in ur post. Right now u are angry & hurt & grieving (& so is mom) and grief is a process that can take years.
I hear ur dad 'wanted to do things perfectly & if not, he just didnt try' - that sounds like an ACoA to me - the perfectionism, that is an acoa issue that is something that has to be dealt with. Yes, it can make u want to not even try at all - I know, I'm acoa too (adult child of addict/alcoholic). AcoA's are also codependents. It is my belief that you & your mom have this too. I do see that it is not healthy for you to hear the negatives between your mom & dad - that is private stuff between a marriage. You say you logically "understand" she was hurt but u cant ever begin to know what she did go through. Living with an addicted partner is hell on earth. Our parents try to protect us from their "junk" but the kids often get a lot of it anyway - kids know something is wrong in the dynamic of the house & with the people but even if all that ever happened to you, was from time to time you were neglected emotionally, it still has serious consequences for your life. Emotional maturaity is not learned in a dysfunctional household. You will have to learn to deal with your emotions at some point. Only you can do this. This is why in al-anon no one will give u advice. We can offer suggestions but none of us is in your life - you are - u have to make the choices that are right for you. In al-anon, if someone did give u advicve - u would not learn anyuthing on your own & if u didnt like the outcome - u could just blame that person for the consequence & what does that get you? angry, resentful & still not able to deal with situations, feelings for yourself.
I do think it would be perfectly aceptable for you to tell ur mom ur not interested in hearing the crappy things about dad or what went on between them. Living in a dysfunctional home - u dont have boundaries & this stuff is a boundary issue. Obviously it is destructive for you to hear negative things about dad & their marriage. After all you are a part of ur dad. It is hurtful/destructive.
In al-anon, u will learn to take responsibility for you & to stop enalbing. Right now ur making excuses for ur dad's behavior - as it feels like he is being attacked. Your mom has every right to her feelings but she so do you & u have the right to have some boundaries. Making excuses is another way we enable the A's. Sure he wasnt terrible, not a "muderer or rapist" but A's do hurt us in ways they dont realize. Just b/c he didnt realize how hurtful he was to live with, doestn excuse his behavior. I think u & mom need some boundaries.
Al-anon will teach you how. You clearly have issues of your own & you wont know what they are until u start doing some deep self analysis. You are an ACoA. The book 12 steps for adult children helped me in al-anon so much. Before that book, I wasnt getting very much out of al-anon - that literature helped me untangle my fear & guilt & work out my unresolved feelings & issues. I still have the issues, but can cope & handle them much better today. I too have a problem with perfectionism, I try to do things anyway & make mistakes now. It sucks but it's progress, better than never doing anything - that is a life of desperation & it is sad.
I also get the feeling ur mom believes in a "punsihing god" based on what youve said about her. You can decide to have your own relationship with god, that u can define for yourself. I can say happily, my god is not a punisher but there are consequences. If I lie, I experience a consequence that I do feel with god. So I dont lie (for example).
Let me say ~ I am sorry for the loss of your dad. That must be really really hard. I believe in spirit we can communicate with our loved ones who have passed on.
Since ur mom is "complaining" a lot right now, she could benefit a lot by going to al-anon too & airing her junk. You both need healing & it takes work. Idk, I tried to get my mom to al-anon for 20 yrs & it never worked, she isnt interested in therapy. I do know that our emotional junk that we dont deal with, just sits & festers. The only way around it, is through. Sometimes that means opening up old wounds & bringing up that pain again - but we have to feel, deal, heal & that is an experience/process.
I'm glad ur here & hope u might consider using the chat room as well. There are ppl in there at all stages of recovery. It helps to talk toothers who have been through similar stuff. There are also daily mtgs held in there - 2/day - so u could ge to a mtg via pc. I work my program online & it works for me right now. I didnt like f2f mtgs much either, I was self conscious, cry a lot & fidgit. I also did not want to see pity in theri eyes & I was rather paranoid and still am. So online works, no one can see me cry, I can see them & I can be brutally honest.
That's what it takse to heal, brualt honesty & the desire to want to change. Your emotions are your responsibility.
take what u like & leave the rest, good luck to you & hope you give al-anon a chance, you are worth it.
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
My Dad will be celebrating 25 years of sobriety in September and my mother is still a very bitter person (they are still married). She went to Al-Anon after my Dad got sober and she stayed in the program for about 5 or 6 years.
Now that I'm in Al-Anon for my husband's drinking, I honestly think that my mom could use Al-Anon again, but that is her choice - I can't force her.
I understand all the reasons she's angry (lots of things have happened between her and my Dad over the years), but I love my Dad very much. So if she ever does complain about him to me, I listen and sympathize, but I do not agree with her. I just don't think that's the right thing to do to my dad. She entitled to her feelings and opinions, but it's my feeling and opinions that matter and count to me.
(((( newbie )))) wow there is a lot in ur post. Right now u are angry & hurt & grieving (& so is mom) and grief is a process that can take years.
I hear ur dad 'wanted to do things perfectly & if not, he just didnt try' - that sounds like an ACoA to me - the perfectionism, that is an acoa issue that is something that has to be dealt with. Yes, it can make u want to not even try at all - I know, I'm acoa too (adult child of addict/alcoholic). AcoA's are also codependents. It is my belief that you & your mom have this too. I do see that it is not healthy for you to hear the negatives between your mom & dad - that is private stuff between a marriage. You say you logically "understand" she was hurt but u cant ever begin to know what she did go through. Living with an addicted partner is hell on earth. Our parents try to protect us from their "junk" but the kids often get a lot of it anyway - kids know something is wrong in the dynamic of the house & with the people but even if all that ever happened to you, was from time to time you were neglected emotionally, it still has serious consequences for your life. Emotional maturaity is not learned in a dysfunctional household. You will have to learn to deal with your emotions at some point. Only you can do this. This is why in al-anon no one will give u advice. We can offer suggestions but none of us is in your life - you are - u have to make the choices that are right for you. In al-anon, if someone did give u advicve - u would not learn anyuthing on your own & if u didnt like the outcome - u could just blame that person for the consequence & what does that get you? angry, resentful & still not able to deal with situations, feelings for yourself.
I do think it would be perfectly aceptable for you to tell ur mom ur not interested in hearing the crappy things about dad or what went on between them. Living in a dysfunctional home - u dont have boundaries & this stuff is a boundary issue. Obviously it is destructive for you to hear negative things about dad & their marriage. After all you are a part of ur dad. It is hurtful/destructive.
In al-anon, u will learn to take responsibility for you & to stop enalbing. Right now ur making excuses for ur dad's behavior - as it feels like he is being attacked. Your mom has every right to her feelings but she so do you & u have the right to have some boundaries. Making excuses is another way we enable the A's. Sure he wasnt terrible, not a "muderer or rapist" but A's do hurt us in ways they dont realize. Just b/c he didnt realize how hurtful he was to live with, doestn excuse his behavior. I think u & mom need some boundaries.
Al-anon will teach you how. You clearly have issues of your own & you wont know what they are until u start doing some deep self analysis. You are an ACoA. The book 12 steps for adult children helped me in al-anon so much. Before that book, I wasnt getting very much out of al-anon - that literature helped me untangle my fear & guilt & work out my unresolved feelings & issues. I still have the issues, but can cope & handle them much better today. I too have a problem with perfectionism, I try to do things anyway & make mistakes now. It sucks but it's progress, better than never doing anything - that is a life of desperation & it is sad.
I also get the feeling ur mom believes in a "punsihing god" based on what youve said about her. You can decide to have your own relationship with god, that u can define for yourself. I can say happily, my god is not a punisher but there are consequences. If I lie, I experience a consequence that I do feel with god. So I dont lie (for example).
Let me say ~ I am sorry for the loss of your dad. That must be really really hard. I believe in spirit we can communicate with our loved ones who have passed on.
Since ur mom is "complaining" a lot right now, she could benefit a lot by going to al-anon too & airing her junk. You both need healing & it takes work. Idk, I tried to get my mom to al-anon for 20 yrs & it never worked, she isnt interested in therapy. I do know that our emotional junk that we dont deal with, just sits & festers. The only way around it, is through. Sometimes that means opening up old wounds & bringing up that pain again - but we have to feel, deal, heal & that is an experience/process.
I'm glad ur here & hope u might consider using the chat room as well. There are ppl in there at all stages of recovery. It helps to talk toothers who have been through similar stuff. There are also daily mtgs held in there - 2/day - so u could ge to a mtg via pc. I work my program online & it works for me right now. I didnt like f2f mtgs much either, I was self conscious, cry a lot & fidgit. I also did not want to see pity in theri eyes & I was rather paranoid and still am. So online works, no one can see me cry, I can see them & I can be brutally honest.
That's what it takse to heal, brualt honesty & the desire to want to change. Your emotions are your responsibility.
take what u like & leave the rest, good luck to you & hope you give al-anon a chance, you are worth it.
You misunderstand what I was saying. My father did not have the attitude that he wanted to do things perfectly or he did not try. That was my mother's perception of him. It was NOT the case at all. I am not making excuses for my father but on the other hand, I have had a very bad relationship with my other over the years. Despite my fathers alcoholism, I have always felt closer to him and could relate to him in a way I never could with my mother. I never know what to say to my mother. When we get on the phone, there is nothing much we discuss because we have nothing much to talk about. With my father it was different. He was well educated and well travelled. He played the saxaphone in his early years and understood the theory of music. I play the piano so he and I talked a length about music. I spoke to him about my travels and he understood as he was a pilot during the war so he understood why I like flying. He and I experienced a lot of the same things. I cannot say that of my mother, so she listens to things I do and am going to do but that is all. I played the piano for her for the first time the other day as she doesnt have a piano and we were somewhere where there was a piano. She sat and listened and said it was nice. My father would have asked technical questions because although he was not an expert, he knew enough about music to know what I was playing and why and what notes I was hitting. I am sorry if anyone on here thinks I am makng excuses or enabling my father but this is how I feel. I still think it was disgusting of my mother to sit in front of me and tell me to my face that she is glad he is dead. Sorry but I would NEVER say that about anyone.
My Dad will be celebrating 25 years of sobriety in September and my mother is still a very bitter person (they are still married). She went to Al-Anon after my Dad got sober and she stayed in the program for about 5 or 6 years.
Now that I'm in Al-Anon for my husband's drinking, I honestly think that my mom could use Al-Anon again, but that is her choice - I can't force her.
I understand all the reasons she's angry (lots of things have happened between her and my Dad over the years), but I love my Dad very much. So if she ever does complain about him to me, I listen and sympathize, but I do not agree with her. I just don't think that's the right thing to do to my dad. She entitled to her feelings and opinions, but it's my feeling and opinions that matter and count to me.
When my mother was in hospital for a few days about two years ago, my dad visited her. He went every day, and one day he was much longer getting home. I dont live near my family so I phoned to find out how he got on. Thats how I know he was late getting back. I was worried because he was an old man and I thought something had happened to him. Anyway when he returned he told me he had been shopping buy a few groceries. I believed him, but when I eventually told my mother the other day, she said that he was lying and that he was out drinking somewhere.
What right does she have to make such an assumption. My had not had a drink for 20 years and stayed sober. I am just so cross.
If anyone crticises me for my attidude then I will have to leave this Board. I did not come here to be called an enabler and such like
ok hon, I'm sorry I said u were enabling. If that's u all u get out my post, I'm sorry. I am only speaking from an ACoA's perspective - I'm not an addict & I'm not a parent. I am 41 & was a very lonely child growing up in the diease of addiction. My mother was a single parent from the beginning.
No one here will critisize or judge you. Post your heart out, sharing in program is what has allowed me to heal & recover. This is a safe place to express yourself in and I hope u give al-anon a real try. It has allowed me to save my own life & actually live, today I have coping skills/tools for living, I did not learn that at home.
If I offended you, I am truly sorry.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
I think that is grief. If you read Beautiful Boy the book I mentioned in an earlier post the father of a drug addict son says he was very very angry at his son and wanted to rid himself of every reminder of him. He had al anon your mother does not. I know for me I have very large issues with my sisters over how they responded to my father and mother's death. I would like to should them into submission but I've had to look at that is all they can do and leave it alone.
My own grief is hard to contend with. I'd much rather look at and criticize my sisters than deal with the fact my father and mother were incredibly toxic, abusive and downright ill most of their lives and what that meant to me.
My mother went to Alanon for years. I would say she went to Alanon for about 30 years so she has a lot of experience of it. She became too old and frail in later years go get to meetings. She reads a lot of alanon books.
I do not get on that well with my mother. Never have done really but it has got better over the years but its not perfect. We have little to say to one another. We have precious little in common.
One thing I would like to mention that I have never heard my mother say she loves me. She does not hug me but expects me to hug her when I see her. When I do hug her, she just stands there with her arms by her side so she is a very cold person in my opinion. I cannot relate to cold people.
It sounds to me, like your mother's comments are hurting you. She is entitled to her feelings, but she doesn't have the right to vomit them all over you. You may want to consider setting a boundary to take care of yourself. Let her know that these comments are not something you can bear to hear.
I had to do this with a friend who insists on bringing up politics. That said, we can set all the boundaries we want, however, we cannot have an expectation they will honor it. To date, I have had to re-state my boundary several times, which results in her injured feelings, but... Today, my feelings matter too. I refuse to endure her editorials on something I do not agree with.
Take care of YOU, whatever that looks like.
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
