The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I can fully understand how taking care of ME will find me happiness - happiness that is right for ME. I understand how my choices and decisions need to reflect and be consistent with the consequences and outcomes that I want in my life.
Where I struggle is in understanding the principle to not rely or expect from others to fulfill us or make us happy.
In thinking about marriage, I think that each person has an obligation to certain behaviour to give the marriage a foundation. For me, these being honestly, love, friendship, contribution, responsibility to name a few.
In my marriage, I have long said that my aH lacks some of those qualities, which makes the foundation of the marriage shaky, which as a result makes me very very very very UNHAPPY.
I don't understand how we are to detach lovingly enough to not give what they are doing or not doing a second thought... yet, engage ourselves and be vulnerable to the relationship, not worrying about our needs that are not met, but focusing more on needs that ARE.
When I think about a fulfilled relationship I think about sharing my life with someone who takes care of the family, provides, shares jokes and laughs, supports and considers family decisions, thinks about making a differences, engages, plugs in, strategizes problems to create the best outcome for all, plans opportunities for the family and the members of it, to purposefully offer love and support. For me, I want that.
The alternative seems distant, at arms length, cold even.
Your post really spoke to me. I have so many of the same anger and fear about my marriage too.
I've been with him for many years, and we've had our ups and downs. But we've only been married for a month and a half and only know am I recognizing the extent of the problems. It all feels like it's falling apart so fast. I'm scared because I don't want to fail at this, and certainly not so soon.
I'm so angry. I'm angry because this is not where I wanted to be, this is not the vision of our future that I had. I'm angry because he has tried to hide the extent of his drinking from me and I'm angry because as time goes on and more things happen the less I feel that I can trust him.
I don't know if I have it in me to wait for him to realize what direction he is headed. I don't know how long I'm willing to be this way. And I feel awful because I feel like I should be a better person. I shouldn't feel like giving up on him and on us.
I think you understand it just fine. It sounds to me like you are trying to make a decision. The decision is difficult, but from what I can see, you have all of the information. More information is not likely to change anything, nor make the decision any easier. You have the focus on yourself, you know what you have, and you have defined what you need. What is left is the decision - and deciding to continue with status quo is also a decision. As long as you are aware you have choices, and that you have made a choice, then you are no longer a cork on the ocean!
I think for many of us this same issue rings true to form.. But then again, MY Veiws and what my H Veiws are not always the same...For me, I want the things you mentions, (honestly, love, friendship, contribution, responsibility), and if I was to ask my H what his roles were, they would look more like he is (Good Provider, Love) would most likely what his answer would be... Tho they are not the same on every level, I know that he is his own person, and I have to honor what he "DOES" bring to the table that maybe i didn't think about...
We all have a choice as to what we CAN or CAN NOT Except in our relationship...My H and Me dicussed this Before we got married, My CAN NOT's WERE: I Will not Live with Another A, I will not accept adultry EVER, I will not Fight In front of Our Son... His were. Will not except adultery Ever, Don't do well with Belittling..lol.. I told him what I wanted out of my future, Family, Friends, a Peaceful Home, Love Caring, to some day move back to the country... He didn't want to be Made to do something he didn't want to do, once to live in the country again, and to be given his space when he is ticked... So we are not Alike all that much but I do talk to him about it, even if it is layin in bed on a Sat, Morn.
They boards help me so much, for I know that I am not alone in my feelings, and I see story's of survivals that blow my mind... Yet they are still here, working their program, and provin if we "Keep It Simple, Take One Day at A Time, Let Go & Let God, Progress Not Perfection, Keep Coming Back, Detaching with love, Works if You Work It", to name a few... It must Work, and even tho I have Alot of questions Just Like you... I keep putting into play and I keep Moving it forward, I will get to a place of serenity, and love... And if I am alone when I get there, Welp... I am OK with that too... But I am never alone with HP Right beside me :)
Take what you like and leave the rest... :) Love & Prayers Jozie
i feel the same way. i ruminate on it all the time. barisax, your reply is helpful.
luckily i'm getting out of the situation for a few days (traveling to see friends this weekend) and i'll be focusing on what i really want and what i really need.
Ok lets say your husband is not an A. He is a very loving, man. perfect for you.
Sadly he gets into a car accident. Comes out from it ok, but now cannot give the same love, same loving food, you need as he is now a little brain damaged.
How would you deal? Would you learn to just love him for being there? Accept him as is?
Same play reversies...
Hon my AH I have known all my life, wanted him all my life. We had such a great courtship, marriage, at our middle age. Heaven, first time in my life i felt so secure, and we had mutual love.
Brain tumor, medical relapse took it all away.
If he was not physically abusive, horribly so, I would LOVE for him to be here, if I could only look at him and see him just smile and be serene.
This is where we make our decision. Can I accept him as is, can I learn to be ok that he does not want to go camping, to the fair, to the Basset Hound games....
Can I handle that he is afraid to make love with me becuz of his inability to do so sometimes. Then mine got to never.
We make the decision if we can accept them as is, and still be happy with in ourselves.
IF we cannot we may stay and be miserable, or we move on.
It is horribly hard! But marriage or a relationship with an Addict is not going to be what most need. Most A's never, ever have a long term healthy relationship!
For me, you bet I want my AH back. But the abuse, the constant depression, NO thanks. But I got so I loved watching movies together, went to work with him, loved that, we did remodel construction together, we worked on our animal sanctuary.
I gleaned what I needed in different ways with him. I wanted it from only him. STill do.
For me being in love with my husband, had no conditions. That is just me. I don't have a sex drive unless I am in love. then omg. lol
I being a widow for 18 years learned that a man is icing on my cake. I am fine with out one, but ohhhhh I loved having him.
I hope this helps. Don't feel guilty, be honest with yourself.
I believe it's our ego that tells us we NEED things from others. The ego loves to create problems.
The program has taught me some radical thinking... If you have a close relationship with "the guy who runs the universe," what else do you need? The program and steps teach me how to achieve this spiritual awakening. Getting with God, is the ultimate detachment.
The program taught me to be really honest with myself. I can remember that I had unhappiness in me long before I met my husband. Today I know, that marriages don't create happiness in us, that is fairy-tale thinking. Today, I believe happiness and fulfillment come from our ability to stay present and conscious of HP. HP fills the void in us, humans just don't have that kind of power.
My sponsor once told me to make a list of things I wanted in a relationship (similar to the one you've made.) Then, she told me to give those things to myself FIRST. Really look at this because my experience is, in every category, I was not giving it to myself, yet I expected it from others.
All that said, I did divorce my AH. For my own survival (emotional, physical and spiritual) I needed to end the relationship.
My suggestion is to focus on the steps, especially step 11, improving your conscious contact with your HP. Is there anything greater we can be doing?! Is there anything more blissful than that?
Then, take care of yourself..... WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE. ((((((hugs))))))
-- Edited by glad lee on Wednesday 1st of July 2009 06:43:14 PM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
Good post and one that causes thinking and inventory taking.
It brought back my lessons and my present program process. Early on regarding this issue (expectations of the alcoholic) I was told that I married an alcoholic what I should be expecting was what I was getting and when I learn that balance will come and anxiety and resentment subside. I was also told to kill my expectations of everything. I did that and then was taught to have reasonable expectations of others around me especially the alcoholic; again reasonable ones. Don't expect what she cannot and will not come thru with. Don't set her up for failure and don't hammer her with "you know what I expected!!" She is alcoholic not the fairy princess of wonderland.
Then the lesson quickly went to; "You cannot get what you don't give" or "What goes around comes around." That was the finger pointing back at me again. Am I loving like I want to be loved and trusting the same way. Am I "always" full- filling others expectations of me? (Huge NO!! here. I abandoned that question often when it came up while taking someone elses (read alcoholic's) inventory. That is a masterful truth...I could not get what I could/would/didn't give and that was humbling. Was I doing the walk rather than just talking it.
I learned to give grace. Grace, forgiveness, mercy and compassion is what I wanted when I screwed up. I wanted it because it relieved me of shame and guilt which felt horrible to my spirit. If I truely wished that no one else feel as bad as I was feeling then I had/have to be willing and able to give grace, forgiveness, mercy and compassion.
I rid my vocabulary of two words "Always and Never". I'm sure you understand. You always mess this up (what ever "this" is) and you never do this for me (again what ever "this" is) and sometimes they don't understand what "this" means because I used it as a catchall phrase and often times I was talking about some thing bothering me that had nothing to do with the alcoholic...she just wasn't relieving my angst about something or other. I had high expectations of a drunk.
Regarding Happiness? It is an inside job for me. It is conditioned by my attitude emotions and relationship with God, myself and others. I can turn it on and off at will because it is a choice not an involutary action. I learned to stay happy even if the alcoholic was missing in action or openly drunk or recuperating from a drunk or even happy herself. I have detached my happiness from the responsibilities of others. My happiness is my happiness...I am responsible.
The condition that is of utmost importance to me today was hit on by Gladlee. Am I right with God as I understand God. That is the relationship that is most important to me. All of these other people around me including the alcoholic are not higher powers..they are human and subject to frailty...just like me.
Continue to break your dependence upon others who are only human and some with life threatening diseases. Focus on your progress and hold on to your HP's right hand...The left hand is the one with the lantern.
I know exactly how you feel. Gosh, just someone to share a life with. I guess it is too much for most A's since they have to tend to their addictions (drinking or not like my AHsober). And he left saying that he could find happiness somewhere else. I don't hear many others whether they are married to A's or not saying that they have a person to share their lives with. So I guess we do have to make that decision. Hard I know.
I have always said that I loved my husband but hated the disease. I was able to separate the two. I was lucky in many ways b/c for the most part when he was drunk he was a quiet one. He wasn't verbally or physically abusive. He would just pass out. Before either of us knew he had a problem way back in college we had always been the best of friends. I remember him barely touching a drop. He would always be the designated driver. We just had this huge, solid loving foundation that saw us through really hard times. I know how lucky I was to have that for all those years.
We always had certain rules and rituals we followed. Somehow that stayed in place even when he was drinking. For instance, we never went to bed angry at each other (even after a fight). We never left the house w/o telling each other to be careful and we loved each other. We never really called each other awful names. Once in a while we'd fight when he was drinking and I forget my program. Even when I told him to leave, it wasn't mean. It was just life on life's terms. I did learn (and it wasn't easy) to lower my expectations when it came to making plans. I didn't lower my expectations when it came to being treated with respect. I did learn to separate what was the alcohol "talking" and what was my husband talking. The alcoholic made no sense. The husband did.
When it comes to happiness and learning to detach the first thing we have to do is accept life on life's terms. Then we learn how to react to it in a more positive way. I'm not saying that you should allow someone (sober or not) to be verbally abusive and certainly not physically. What I remember is that once I accepted what was going on, I found a serenity that had been lacking. I think these all go hand in hand. It's a balancing act. Thanks for making us think. Much love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Kairlynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Hard lesson to learn- so far the hardest for me yet. I had to learn to LET GO of needing anything from him. I have completely detached myself (and not in an angry way). It is hard, but as for me- I knew it was time for me to do somehting. I just could not go on expecting things from him; so many broken promises. I had had enough of them. I spent some time and made a list of goals I have for myself, and I posted them on the refridgerator. Most are things he has promised me over the years. So now he sees my list labeled "my goals" and not "our goals" because I no longer feel like they are our's. I am not saying you should go about doing things this way, but for me- for now-- it's the only way I can cope and feel like I am moving forward. I know it doesn't seem fair- we all deserve a partner to SHARE life with, but being honest within yourself and learning from that is LIVING- even if it means by yourself.
