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My husband has 18 months sobriety and for the first time in an 8 year struggle is active in AA, has a sponsor, is working the steps and is make amends. This has been the best 18 months of our marriage and I am finally starting to trust him again and he has repaired so much damage done over the years. For the last 16 months, he has discussed why O'Douls is not an option for him as an alcoholic. In the past, he would quit drinking "real" beer and drink the "fake" stuff because he just LOVED the taste of beer...and that was the only reason he drank.
Well, over the last 16 months he has recognized that is mostly BS and has sober people don't drink O'Douls. I concur and supported his rational. Lately however, we have spent time with freinds on their boats and they all drink beer. My husband has been strong and has been amazing. He has completely blown me away. I suggested we don't hang with this group in this setting, but he has assured me of his resolve and recovery.
This past weekend, we went to a couple Red Sox Games and he went to go to the bathroom. He was gone 20 minutes and I went into that panic. I just knew...all the vendors walking around selling Beer, the signs, the commercialization of beer at the park. When he came back, I asked him where he was. He said he had taken a walk and found a vedor that sells O'Douls and had one. He admitted he had 2 the day before at the game when he was with our young children. I am floored, freaked out and upset. To Me, this is the path where it all begins.....It is the beginning of the end. I lost my mind and pretty much flipped out and told him all this. Well, the alcoholic in him, rationalized all day why this is ok. Why its not a big deal (oh the De-ja-vu). He says he wants to see if he can control this. Its a test, an experiment. Well, I know where it ends. I just do. We have been here before. It will be a 4-5 O'Douls at Chili's on a Wednesday night with the family within 2 weeks.
This is not supportive of me and its also not my problem..I know. But the truth is, it is my problem. Its my marriage, its the man I love and its my children who have suffered most from this path I see us slowly moving towards.
So, what do I do? Do I call his sponsor who I think is a bit douchie anyways? Do I call his group of male friends who I like and tell them I am worried? Any help here, any thoughts about O'Douls and alcoholics?
I don't have another Falling off the wagon in me. I just don't and want to be married to this man for life, I am just panicked and could use some advice. Thanks a million in advance for any thoughts or prayers.
I wanted to add that O'Douls is his gateway drink to real beer and a total falling off the program. Its always been the O'Douls and then the real stuff.
I don't have any advice for you Jamie, but I concur with your worries.... an A truly in "recovery" and "sober" would not be drinking O'Douls..... his logic is likely going to "conquer O'Douls", and then progress to thinking he can "control" his appetite for real beers......
I'm not always a big fan of such things, but what about suggesting that you get a somewhat neutral 3rd party involved - either an agreed upon "program person", or an addictions counselor, or something like that - where you could both talk of the situation, and have some expertise given towards the healthiest solution??
Hope that helps
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Tom- Great advice and I appreciate that train of thought. Something I did not mention is that my husband NEVER drank ANYTHING but Beer. He truly loved the taste of Beer and the negative side affect was that he got drunk quickly and badly. I realize he has an obvious problem with Alcohol/Beer as does he. What is hard in this situation is, On the Surface...To himself- he never drank to get drunk...he drank and could not stop because he first loved the taste of beer and could not stop. While he has explored his drinking further and realizes he has other issues and they were exacerbated by Beer and he cannot ever drink again...............he also see's this product that is out there that can give him the taste he so misses, without those pesky side affects of drunkeness.
Its a tough situation, most drunks, drink ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. He never touched anything but Beer....if they made non-alcoholic Whiskey, could someone who liked whiskey just drink the fake stuff? Its a bit unique bc I don't think many people had a sole relationship with Beer....and in his rational (and i guess I understand it) there is a cure for Regular Beer in O'Douls.
Part of me thinks I am just buying his excuse and his rational and therfore giving him the "approval" to go forward. Just a thought. Thanks again
Aloha Jme...O`Douls and the other "Neer Beers" are a flirt to an alcoholic away from the real stuff. Alcoholics don't drink for the taste only...There is always the drunk and that is the real reason. Instead of you contacting AA and his sponsor and sober support do something real for yourself...the Al-Anon Family Groups. It is you who need support by loving caring friends, relatives and family of alcoholics. "You've been here before" but have you been here before while in your own program? Go to the white pages of your local telephone book before you make another attempt to "fix" him. Look up the number for Al-Anon or go to the home page of this site and look for the link for the meetings in your area and come join those who have been where you are at now and have made amazing recovery of being affected by someone elses drinking. Don't spend another minute trying to figure him out, this out, it out... Come for yourself and get healed. Let him deal with his disease. He will have to face the denial that kept him "dry" for 18 months. That's what he's been "dry" he hasn't been sober. 18 months dry will cause a huge thirst for things alcoholic and alcohol has an amazing power to snatch dry people back into active drinking and alcoholism.
You are not alone go get that number and to the first meeting you can get to.
Jerry- Thanks, i am working my own program too....probably not as often as I should, but I go to an Alanon meeting every week. I was just stressed in this moment and was looking for some extra support while I count down to my meeting tomorrow. I need to get a buddy at my meetings, just looking for some broader opinions on this subject too. This really came out of the blue for me and like old times, I went into crisis mode :)
I appreciate the thoughts and guidance and will pay more attention to my recovery than I have been :) Thanks again
Jme, I have no words for you because I'm in the same "o'doule's" boat. We see an addiciton counselor who is our Marriage counselor. My husband told the MC he had an Odoules and the couselor freaked on him and said NO WAY. Last week we went to Bugaboo Creek. A place we always had a few drinks. I ordered a lemonaide. He ordered an O'Doule AFTER HE ASKED if he could... being a good AL-ANANONER and not wanting to "control" him or tell him what to do, I told him to do what he wanted.
uggg, of course...exactly what I thought and Exactly how I feel. Thank you for sharing though..the "I am not alone" sentiment makes me feel much better, better than you can know. Keep me updated on how it goes! Thanks
I find for me, especially during my "crazy times" that one Al-Anon meeting a week doesn't cut it. (And, actually, my sponsor really wants me hitting a minimum of two a week as it is).
I had one week where I was just feeling really antsy and screwy and I hit four meetings that week, plus my district business meeting (working the program ala service!). Of course, by the end of that week, I was all Al-Anoned out... but at least by the end of that week, I made Al-Anon my grumble instead of my AH. ;)
That's a scary spot. I feel your pain. :( One of the things I've learned from attending open AA meetings and reading AA's Big Book is that the possibility of a relapse is very real - and it doesn't matter how long they've been in the program... 18 days, 18 weeks, 18 months or 18 years... a relapse is possible.
I've found that if I want to stay with my AH, that I need to build some sort of acceptance of all his foibles into my life, otherwise life with him would just be daily intolerability. One thing I've accepted about my AH is that he drinks. He'll go on little mini dry-drunk streaks... two or three days without a drink because he's trying to prove to himself he can "control" it. Of course, on those days, he's this crazy restless discontent maniac who wants to GO GO GO!!! And then he goes back to drinking and all those other behaviors emerge with the drinking.
Don't know where I'm going with this... but I understand how scary this must be to you. Hope you get to your meeting. Do you have a sponsor? I'd give her a call, too.
Doesn't O'Doul's have like 1% alcohol in it? When my dance instructor had had one of them, I could tell. I don't think that a rootbeer would do that.
I can understand your panic. When I found five beers hidden in our shop building, I was devastated, because AH had never hidden it before. Thought oh boy, we are doomed. And I called Alanon. That was a long time ago and I still remember that awful feeling.
I think those who say get more Alanon for you and don't stop until you are at peace know something. I think they say don't stop then, either. I never did stick with it when times were good. And when the Dry Drunk behaviors began again, I think I was too depressed to do anything. I've learned my lesson, and I hope nobody ever waits as long as I have to do that.
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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
Tough one, and I know that blind panic, really awful feeling, my mother used to do it to me, by buying cooking sherry and getting wasted, I dreaded the stuff in the finish, the rationale is that they are not doing anything out of the way or wrong but it was tough going, there is really no way that you are going to be able control this number is there, so I know I constantly went into crisis mode with my mother, two A brothers, A father and A step mother but it wasn't until I put the focus on me that things changed, some for the better, some not so good but none of it done in crisis mode like before and none of it in denial, I grieved and suffered but now I pick up the phone when I can not because I have to, if you know what I mean,
THe best thing you can do is get out of the way of the relapse. See it for what it is, don't bother to rationalize or fall for his justifications. He is relapsing. How far will it go will be determined by him, not you.
And yes, O'Dooles has at least 1 percent alcohol in it. it is about the dumbest product I have ever heard of.
Now, you see what your reactions are. You do not like them, so that is what you need to focus on. You, what do you want to do. How do you want to feel. Our liturature states that we can find peace regardless if the A finds sobriety or not.
As the last couple of posts or so have pointed out... O'Douls does have alcohol in it. Anyone who uses the rationalization that it isn't like drinking "real" beer is just fooling themself. It is real beer too, just less % content is all. Same effects though. Nuff said.
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Let your light shine in the darkness. "I can't just bring my mind to meetings...I must also bring my heart."
My first thougth was, I hear this, "I don't have another relapse from AH in me." Relapse, sobriety, dry drunk, selfishness, manipulation and on and on are all part of an Addict.
Chances are there will be many relapses. That is the reason we are in Al Anon, we learn to detach from however the disease controls them. We don't watch them, wait as they are in the br, decide if they should be drinking that stuff, or any of it.
It is NOT anything we can control, there is nothing we can do. We did not cause it, we cannot control it, nor can we cure it!
He has to figure it all out for himself!
One has a disease the disease caused A, B and C.
We can do nothing. It is a disease. What we can do is make sure we are ok, we are healthy. We learn to be confidant enough in ourselves that we see the person we love and leave the rest.
We accept them exactly how they are, I know I would not want anyone watching me, second guessing me. If I relapse will he leave?
If we find we absolutely cannot accept a person as is, then what makes us be with them? I am NOT telling anyone to leave.
What I am saying is when we have a relationship, marriage with an A it is not going to be like any other type relationship.
For me I had my own vehicle, own home, own money etc. I learned too late and lost so much. What I can do is share my experience.
I wanted to cont. with my A and was really ok and happy. But HIS disease did not like me! Could not manipulate me, could not get me to yell or play. so he left.
I had him back a few times to glean some good time. To the point of no good time.
Anyway there ya go,did not mean to write a book! hugs,debilyn
Amazing and wonderful advice and sharing from everyone. I cannot thank you enough for helping to solidify my resolve today!! Really, appreciate everyone's input!
Don't look too far into the future. My AHsober (25 years sober and separated-his call) drinks O'Doul"s. He was told not to drink it. He rationalizes it but he is an A.
My personal experience with my ex-AA is first O'Douls to practice up for the real stuff. Head to an Al-Anon meeting... even if he never picks up the real stuff... you can learn many wonderful things about yourself and taking care of you.
My personal experience was much like Debilyn's. I cannot "make" an alcoholic stop drinking. In fact I think making a real fuss about it was a way for the ex A to justify keeping on. When I stopped making a song and dance and Broadway spectacle and started taking care of myself the full spectacle of his drinking and using came into play without him having to play his charade of lies, justifications, blaming (he always had someone to blame) and more. I stopped working on what an alcoholic did and started working on me. Of course I slipped many a time. I work on not slipping anymore and I am no longer with the ex A. If you can beg and borrow a copy of Getting them Sober. Toby Rice Drew (there is also a web site) has some very generous words for dealing with a relapse.
I certainly did more than 100% of the work in a relationship for years. I bent over backwards to save the ex A. None of that ever stopped him. He drank and used till he wanted to stop. Nothing but nothing I did, screaming, begging, pleading, leaving him (albeit many brief to say the least) did any good at all. Of course I believed that I was making it clear what it was costing me but there were other better less draining ways to do that. I hope you will throw yourself into al anon I think it can help tremendously. I know the tools help me day in day out. The more you can lose them the less you will over react to whatever your husband does. The better you can take care of you the better you will feel and there is the bonus of this is a great company to be in!
I have never touched O'Douls or any other near-beer in my sobriety. Nor have I had communion wine, or liquid Ny-Quil or any other cough syrup, mouthwash, etc. containing alcohol.
The closest I've come was taking a bite of a dessert that had some sort of liquer in it, and once a piece of hard candy. My reaction both times was like biting into a live wire. There was no doubt about it. From my own person experience, I don't see how one could ingest alcohol in any form without knowing it, even as little as the 1% or 0.5% in near beer. I realize there are trace amounts of alcohol in ordinary things like fruit juice, but I don't think I could drink enough OJ to even get the beginning of a buzz. But if I drank a gallon (less than a 12-pack) of near beer, I'm quite certain I would feel it.
I've occasionally been served "non-alcoholic wine". My hat is off to the makers of the stuff - it really did taste like real wine, enough for me to just push it away after about 1/4 teaspoon.
I guess it comes down to, what's the point? I really did love the taste of beer, and I loved the taste of whiskey, scotch, rum... but there is no point in me drinking something that tastes like those things just for the taste. The taste is going to serve only one purpose: to remind me of the real thing.... and ultimately, to make me want the real thing.
I don't mind being around people drinking if they are not drunk, or setting out to get that way. But if I'm close enough to get that bitter whiff of beer foam, I'd rather step back. After 20 years, I don't think about drinking very often, I don't crave it, and I don't have a desire to drink. I know how quickly that would change if I were to play around, sniff the foam, take a hit of near-beer, or whatever. If I were to do any of those things, I'd have to take a hard look at my motives. And the only motive I could have for it would be to brush up against my addiction, to try and steal some kind of a thrill from it. TBQH, skydiving would be safer... and I'm terrified of heights.
No near-beer for this sober alcoholic. I can't speak for anyone else, but - well, it sure sounds like a really bad idea.
Barisax and everyone else- I really appreciate the different perspectives and experiences you shared with me. I really relate and understand what you are saying about the "near" beer and why drink the fake, its only to temp you to drink the real stuff. Very good point made. I have taken a big step back and did go to my alanon meeting on Tuesday. It was just what I needed. I had that Ah-Ha moment I so needed. Again, thank you all very much for "rescueing" me from my own pity party and dark moment. It means the world to me
Everyone I have met in my years in the fellowship, have different views on the ODouls topic. I for one approve and occasionally have an ODouls and a variety of other imported non-alcoholic beverages.
Its about how the persons spiritual program is at the moment. It would be so much easier for him to pick up the real thing but instead realizes the consequences and chooses ODouls.
ODouls has never caused me to stay out all night. But alcohol did.
ODouls has never caused me to cheat on my wife. But alcohol did.
ODouls has never caused me to call in sick to work. But alcohol did.
There is no true answer, but it is something he should be discussing with his sponsor.
My sponsor knows about my ODouls and although he doesnt drink them, he agrees that if the individual is spiritually fit and doesnt have ulterior motives, the ODouls is not harmful.
I work my program for me and no one else. By doing that everyone around me reaps the benefits.
We're all affected in different ways. Not everyone who has a drinking problem is at the same extent as others, nor does the power of temptation act in the exact same way. If you can't use mouthwash without the temptation of drinking it (Akk!), then you're in a very different boat than many others. Not everyone's in that boat. Some people may very well be in a boat where they can't be around alcohol. In those cases, yes, Stay Away from anything that tastes like a beer or wine (or hard liquor) -- of course. But that's not everyone who has a problem. After all, we say it doesn't take much to have a problem.
"But if I drank a gallon (less than a 12-pack) of near beer, I'm quite certain I would feel it."
By placebo effect, maybe. But no, you're not going to get an actual buzz, or even slight off of it, off a 12-pack -- even if done at a relatively quick pace. A non-alcoholic beer has *less* than 0.5% in it. Trace amounts. It's about 1/10th of a Lite beer (which is less than 5%).
So say you drank a 12-pack of O'Douls at a 'medium pace', in 4 hours as well (3 beers an hour). That'd be like having 3/10ths of a Lite beer over the course of a Full Hour. But here's the kicker: It's more dilluted than drinking 30% of a miller lite bottle. You had to drink 3 12oz containers of liquid to get LESS than a third of a mere Miller Lite of alcohol.
Here: take 3 12 OZ bottles, and fill each ALMOST to the full 12 oz (10.8 oz) of water. Pour roughly a shot's worth (1.2oz) from a Miller Lite bottle into each of those water bottles. Even drinking each of those every 20 minutes, is not going to give you a buzz. At all. Now, make the water "beer flavored" in the first place, and put a beer label on it -- yeah, you may get a placebo effect and remind yourself of "good times" drinking. If you're susceptible to that, I'd recommend getting over that hump in life to the point -- which may not take long -- to get to the point where you can be in a restaurant eating at the bar with people drinking next to you and not tempted to order a drink.
Essentially, it's not going to be any different than the actual 0.00% alcohol beer. The less-than-0.05% isn't going to affect you any differently, chemically. It's all going to be the placebo effect -- which MAY not be a good idea, depending on your own temptations, etc. But many people were able to get away from drinking by drinking faux drinks, because they always liked the taste regardless and the taste was the sin-caller. Others just always drank to get drunk and didn't care about taste.
My experience is that your spidey-sense about the O'Douls is right on target.
I guess the question is: What would you decide if he had a full-blown relapse today? How would you take care of yourself? What would you decide about the future?
Of course when that happens, we all are tempted to explain to the alcoholic, to try to call him on his behavior, and everything. I imagine we've all done it. But with the tools of recovery, we move on to take care of ourselves. So that's what you're called upon to do here, it seems to me.
Maybe it means investigating leaving. Maybe it means acknowledging that you're powerless and you're going to stay (for now or for good) and detach. Maybe it means working your program and putting off all other decisions till you've gotten over the shock.
To me the O'Douls is like hearing the whistle of the train coming down the track. The first thing we do is get off the track. Sounds as if you're taking care of yourself.
