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I need to know what constitutes an alcoholic? That may sound a bit strange but I just feel so confused by my husbands behavior. Is there a spectrum of alcholisim? Can someone be a bigger alcholic than another? My husband drinks on average 3 times a week. He always does it when he is golfing. The biggest concern I have is that he drives! It scares me to death. He is going to hurt someone someday. I really don't know what to do about it. I have asked him 1000 times to stop. To consider what he is doing. I have threatened, begged, bribed, pleaded. Each time he tells me he knows and he is sorry and he won't do it again. He tells me he won't drink the next time he goes. He is incapable of having "just one". If he starts he will just keep going. I really don't know what to do. Just short of showing up at the golf course and waiting by the car. If anyone has any ideas I'd be grateful. I have even considered calling the police and have them waiting for him when he comes to the car. But I feel horrible doing this. I love my husband very much. I am just tired, weary and plain fed up over this. Not to mention scared. The drinking and driving is just not ok with me. Eventually his luck is going to run out and God help us when it does. When I bring up the fact that I think he is an alcoholic he tells me that he's not because he doesn't drink all the time and it doesn't affect his job. Thoughts? I'd appreciate any. I need some help.
He is incapable of having "just one". If he starts he will just keep going.
That reads to me that he is an alkie...they come in diferent flavors.....some are sober for weeks and then "binge" for days.......others its every night.......others, weekends....and the list goes on.......the red flag here is, he can't stop w/one AND he is doing it dangerously...driving
threats are "monitoring" are not going to stop him....you cannot stop him
you didn't cause it you cannot control it you cannot cure it
i think what i would do is do a self study......working the program and steps and sponsor work, you will establish what you WILL accept and what you WON"T accept
when you get it figured out, then i would tell him...."your drinking and driving is scaring me to death, putting our house and assets in jeapordy in case you hurt or kill someone and we get sued and this is what i am going to do if you drink and drive".........the boundary is YOURS.....it is by YOU ...for YOU...to take care of YOU.....and to protect any innocent kids you may have.......
You can only take care of and be responsible for yourself.....your being responsible *to* him by telling him what you will allow and what you wont' allow and then you gotta stick to it......
This scares me b/c i lost a dear friend to a drunken driver....we were only 19 years old and she was GONE...
you say you love him and yet you hesitate to let him "pay the price of his drinking and driving"....what about that innocent kid he may maim and put in a wheel chair or that young mother with 3 kids at home that he kills and leaves those children w/out their mommie.....boundaries and limits ARE love....you are maybe saving HIS life and someone elses by telling him nicely that "this is unacceptable and you will alert the cops each time"
yea, hes gonna get mad, but too bad....it is not your problem...HIS feelings and anger are not your responsibility....they are HIS responsibility, but if you sit back...let him drink and drive w/out telling him there are consequences (calling the cops) then if he does kill someone can you live with yourself??? can you get over it when maybe getting him busted could have saved that young man or woman, or child?????
you can only take responsiblity for you....and if you knowingly let someone do a dangerous thing that jeapordizes the innocent then you are guilty by OMMISSION, as he is guilty of COMMISSION.....not much diference...
my mother used to drive drunk....i called the law on her and the 3rd bust, she lost her license.....that 3rd incident, she was going the wrong way on a HIGHWAY....and nearly caused a multi car crash....i had called the cops...they were on the alert, and caught her.........she went to court to fight for her license....i went to court as the prosecution and i BEGGED the judge..."this woman...my mother whom I love should NOT have the priveledge of a drivers license....she is a danger to innocent people and if I don't step up and tell the truth, then anyone she kills is on me b/c i did not do what is right and report her"...........i also told the judge that the "biggy" was her refusal to get into recovery and clean up her life.....
he agreed and took her license away.......she did the act.....she suffered the consequences.........i may have saved lives, by setting a boundary on her.....standing to it and loving her by saving both her life and another's life.........sh was stone angry at me.......i did not own her feelings....her feelings were hers......she finally a few years later, thanked me for being responsible and calling the cops.......that she was a threat on the road and she was unfit to drive....
either way....i did not regret what i did.....threatening, pleading, crying, acting out does NOT work.....its emotional and its giving your power over to them b/c emotions w/out setting a reasonable boundary and sticking to it are a waste.......
i was calm when I told my mom the "laid out plan" if she drank and drove........guaranteed i was calling the cops.........guaranteed i would testify against her.........guaranteed she would "pay the fiddler" for her actions...........she called my bluff.......she got busted....spent the usual day in jail, sobering up with charges brought against her and a suspended license.......
one big thing with alkies.....DENIAL........"i am not an alcoholic" then they try to paste something on you b/c they are not ready to see that they have a serious problem.....its easier to blame you than to accept their wrong doings.....
what I said here is my experience......its up to you what you do..........i can only give my take and my experience thats all......we all have choices.....Even God gives us choices/free will......so i dont' tell folks what to do......i just give my take...
PEACE
-- Edited by rosielightshines on Saturday 20th of June 2009 03:37:17 AM
Aloha Weary...You can get alot of information about alcoholism from the pamphlets at a face to face Al-Anon meeting. You can find meetings in your area by going to the AFG.org or on the home page of MIP.
Alcoholism is partly described as a "compulsion of the mind and an allergy of the body..." Partly and having said that no two alcoholics are exactly the same. What measures us for membership in Al-Anon is that if you are having a problem with someone else's drinking...you're qualified without even describing how bad the problem is.
If you are concerned that he drinks and drives (or putts for that matter either a car or golf ball...little inside the program humor there) you've come to the right place. There are a great many spouses, family relatives, daughters, sons, whatever connection of alcoholics and they all have something to share with you in their stories.
Stick around and keep coming back often. Me? I was born and raised within the disease of alcoholism. We don't get to choose our families. By the time I reached the doors of Al-Anon I was freshly separated for the 5th time from my second addicted spouse and in between that I had choosen another alcoholic to have a relationship with. They were all addicted to something and I was addicted to making sure that they lived comfortably and without need. I didn't see addictive drinking and using as a part of my picture but never took a good look at theirs. I lost everything including my sanity and was able to save my life just before I lost that, by getting into the program of Al-Anon.
I am an enabler...what ever I did with the intention of making things better made things much worse with the disease in my life. I have learned not to do that any more.
he tells me that he's not because he doesn't drink all the time and it doesn't affect his job.
That statement is pure denial. It is what he is telling himself to make allowances for his inability to stop. It is also where sometimes blur the lines and begin to their actions and ourselves. Certainly he knows functioning alcoholics, executives, doctors, lawyers and CEO's that have jobs. There are many on the golf course. He would like you to think he has to be a street bum with a brown paper bag to be a alcoholic?
My husband was an engineer for one of the top 3 construction companies in the world . Just before his alcoholism brought him to his knees (and the hospital) he would go to his car at 10 a.m and have his first drink. The disease is progressive and knows no social class. He certainly didn't start out that way. He didn't drink every day either in the beginning.
There's obviously a drinking problem or he would be living up to his promises to stop. It doesn't matter what label your husband tries to avoid or what label you give him. The bottom line is he can't stop drinking and it's causing a problem. Something has to change. It doesn't look like it's going to be him so it'll have to be you. It doesn't seem fair that you have to make changes due to his drinking but it's the only choice, beyond doing nothing.
Welcome to MIP and please find a meeting to attend in your community. That step alone, shoould you choose to tell him, will let him know that you mean business. Your involvement with Alanon will be the best possible answer to dealing with the disease. Without it, nothing changes except your frustration level and inability to keep a grip on your sanity.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
First Thank you so much for your thoughts. Your 100% correct Rosie. I would be equally to blame (knowing his habits at the golf course with his drinking) if he were to have an accient. Thank you for your insight. I have known all along but his denial sure does a number on my own straight thinking. I truly appreciate your thoughts and for sharing them with me.
LOL! That is a classic, the "I can't be an alcoholic since I hold down a job" bit. I heard the SAME from my alcoholic husband for nearly two decades! They too can be victims of stereotypes, the homeless back alley drunk. Of course every stereotype has a kernal of truth, but we are in the age of functional or semi-functional alcoholics for the most part.
The drinking and driving bit drove me up a wall too, I just couldn't believe how my husband could be so drunk he couldn't walk, yet could still get places and back home safely. He would be driving so drunk that he would come back home and ask "Where was I going, do you know? I don't know where I was going or why, what was I doing?" Drunk driving blackouts...heaven help us.
He is a lot bigger and stronger than me, so even drunk I couldn't take his keys away. I used to stand on the steps waiting for him to come home (if he came home at all), hyperventilating, sure he was gonna kill someone! I was like one of those movies you see on TV, grabbing his leg trying to stop him, with him keeping on going dragging me with him! UGH, the DRAMA! I HATED IT!!!
Then I found Alanon. I learned to detach, yes, even from his drunk driving!
I read that cell phone drivers actually KILL MORE PEOPLE than drunk drivers, thanks to MADD's efforts to cut down on drunk drivers. No one sees cell phones as a real risk to driving, and we all know people who do it, or do it ourselves.
Do we call police on our cell phone friends? Or call the police on ourselves when cell phone driving? I think not...even though in many states it is illegal to use a cell phone while driving, just like it is illegal to drive drunk, both impair driving to the point of severe danger.
Incidentally, I NEVER use a cell phone while driving OR drink and drive for that matter! And I am very careful, knowing how many drunk drivers are out there! I assume every driver is drunk, or under the influence of something, even some cold medicines can impair you enough to break the law and drive! Ugh, and don't even get me started on cell phone drivers, they are EVERYWHERE!!!
When I detached I detached, I stopped being my husband's keeper. Yes, I would suggest he not drink and drive when I became aware of it by coincidence, such as when he would stagger down the steps then fumble and play with his keys loudly for 10 minutes, forgetting where he was headed and getting distracted by the fun metal clinks of the keys hitting each other. But I didn't nag, threaten, or turn it into drama by grabbing onto him like a leach trying to stop him.
Ironically, he drank and drove DAILY for ten years, never got caught, never caused an accident, and never hurt anyone. All of that worry, stress, ANGUISH, for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I had found alanon sooner, it would have saved a lot of wear and tear on my nervous system.
You never know when an alcoholic is going to get help, and it has to come from them to be successful.
I don't know about your husband, but a drunk driving arrest would have really hurt mine, and made him lose his job. I am SOOOOOOO glad I didn't turn police informant and try to get him arrested. He would have been SO angry at me, so determined to get me back, that I think it would have clouded his judgement and he would have kept drinking, to spite me, after he left me. I also saw it as a moral dilema. Cell phone use while driving is illegal in my state. How could I turn in my own husband for breaking the law and drunk driving and not my various family and friends who had constant near misses due to illegally using cell phones while driving? Currently THEY are causing most of the moving violation fatalaities!
Instead, he learned his lesson himself one day. He got stopped by the police on his way to work, stone cold sober. He never drank before work, but stayed drunk every second he was not at work, stopping to get the alcohol on his way home and beginning to drink the second he stepped in the door, he didn't even take off his coat yet!
He was at a stop sign on his way to work and the cops pulled him over for possible drunk driving due to his prolonged stop with no cars coming. He was probably dealing with a hangover from the blackout the night before. Anyway, that brush with the cops shaped hiim up, he realized what would have happened had he been drunk, he would have lost everything! I am surprised though that the fumes in him from drinking so much the night before didn't set off the breathalizer, LOL.
Anyway, I detached and he stopped being mad at me trying to control him and stopped acting like a rebellious teen and stopped drinking on his own. This is after nearly two decades of some pretty heavy drinking.
I am SOOOOOO glad I didn't intervene in a hurtful way and try and have him arrested. Since he still had a job and hadn't lost it yet, he had something to WORRY ABOUT LOSING when the cops pulled him over. That is what finally got to him.
Imagine...more than a decade of planning, scheming, wishing to get him arrested, thinking it was my fault if he hurt anyone for not turning police informant! Well, if my neighbor, a constant cell phone illegal driver kills someone, I won't feel responsible. All I can be responsible for is ME, and I don't engage in illegal activities while driving...
Take what you like and leave the rest...but this detaching stuff is POWERFUL stuff. It allowed my husband to take responsiblity for his own actions. When you are trying to get a nag out of your hair, you are too busy showing them you are your own boss and can do as you please, to really think about the foolishness of what you are doing.
Look up driving fatality statistics in your state, in almost every one, cell phone users outnumber drunk drivers for causing fatal accidents. Next time you see a MADD representative, thank them, they are singley responsible for awareness and also the "designated driver" program that many people have adopted.m This program alone has saved COUNTLESS LIVES. Of course it won't help the die hard alcoholic...but police informants have limited success on them too. Repeat offenders are all over the place, and lots of people with suspended licenses from drunk driving drive illegally anyway, police arrests and courts didn't stop them.
The best thing you can do is be a very defensive driver!
I hope you found this helpful from someone who has been in your shoes.
This is a really great question! I have been thinking about it off and on all day. I think that for me, the answer is that what may appear as a spectrum may actually be a progression and that different people are in different places in the progression. It is a deadly progressive disease, that is for sure. Alcoholics have three choices: insanity, recovery or death. I also believe that us al anons also have these three choices. I choose recovery. hugs, J.
I need to know what constitutes an alcoholic? That may sound a bit strange but I just feel so confused by my husbands behavior. Is there a spectrum of alcholisim? Can someone be a bigger alcholic than another? My husband drinks on average 3 times a week. He always does it when he is golfing. The biggest concern I have is that he drives! It scares me to death. He is going to hurt someone someday. I really don't know what to do about it. I have asked him 1000 times to stop. To consider what he is doing. I have threatened, begged, bribed, pleaded. Each time he tells me he knows and he is sorry and he won't do it again. He tells me he won't drink the next time he goes. He is incapable of having "just one". If he starts he will just keep going. I really don't know what to do. Just short of showing up at the golf course and waiting by the car. If anyone has any ideas I'd be grateful. I have even considered calling the police and have them waiting for him when he comes to the car. But I feel horrible doing this. I love my husband very much. I am just tired, weary and plain fed up over this. Not to mention scared. The drinking and driving is just not ok with me. Eventually his luck is going to run out and God help us when it does. When I bring up the fact that I think he is an alcoholic he tells me that he's not because he doesn't drink all the time and it doesn't affect his job. Thoughts? I'd appreciate any. I need some help.
Drunk driving blackouts...heaven help us.