"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

countrygirl84 · Newbie

At a loss - dating a recovering alcoholic

timbotim · Newbie

I feel much of your pain, cg. I just posted in here looking for guidence and support, as well. Good luck, dear soul. It may be that the most support we can give ours is to do and say nothing at all and let them heal in their own way.

thinkstoomuch · Senior Member

I expect this isn't what you hoped to hear, but 6 months is actually very early recovery. The behaviours you describe are classic alcoholic behaviours. It isn't that one guy - thoughtful, open, helpful - is "real", and the other - blaming, critical, crazy-making - is "not real" - they're both real, and early sobriety is very hard work. They actually recommend that As not start any new intimate relationships for at least a year of not just "not drinking" sobriety, but honest "working the program" sobriety.

In the meantime, anybody who is concerned about or affected by someone else's drinking is automatically a candidate for Alanon - welcome. Whether your relationship with this man is permanently over or not, alanon can help you see patterns of behaviour, and learn alternate behaviours, so you are less likely to go right back out and attract the same thing all over again.

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I can honestly tell you, if I knew what I know now, as much as I loved my Ah I would not have married him.

Read the post above you.
Almost all people who marry A's or have relationships with them will be just like what you went through and as the disease progresses,and it will get a million times worse.

We cannot control it, we did not cause it and we cannot cure it.

"Getting Them Sober" is the best book I have ever read for me. Toby Rice Drew. As tender as I was, that book is easy to read and every bit of it opened my eyes big time. It is the truth. Volume one.

I find them at used book stores. You can also order the online for about nothing, look above on the board, a great member is making it possible for anyone to wants one to have one.

Here is a place to go to find a meeting place where you are. We highly encourage you to go. It is so important to educate ourselves about the disease before we make any major decisions. I wish I would have.

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html

We also have meetings here that are great. There is a chat room also.

I hope so much you will continue to come here to help yourself through this.

I will share with you my experience. Every single A that I have known has said their spouse, girlfriend,boyfriend, mother, daughter and on and on, are crazy, have mental problems and more.

They cannot face that they are the ones with the problem. I learned it meant nothing.They are very sick people.

I was just like you and it still sucked me in.

Glad you are here! Keep coming it will help I promise. love,debilyn

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome. I will reflect what others have said - it is his disease & the disease blames others so they can avoid taking responsibility themselves. If u take the blame, then ur buying into it & feeding it with energy & emotions. They say AA/NA pick up substances & al-anons pick up people. We need to put them down, focus on us & get honest & real.

Deatch from his behavior, get focused on you. You are all u can change or control anyway, we sure cant control another person & being caught in the manipulation makes us sick. It is vital to learn about the disease so u can stop enabling, recognize the disease for what it is & not take it personally. The first year of recovery for A's is very hard, their emotions are all bubbling up again & they get to sort it all out. It is a very raw time after being "numb" for so long.

It is very tempting for us (as women) to romantacize about "forever" - i too fell into this trap a lot. As long as we are focused on tomorrow, we arent really living in today. Be grateful for what u have today & leave tomorrow in the unknow future (where it belongs) - hey we're all scared about it but if we focus on the future, we lose any hope of empowering us for today/present moment.

What can u do for YOU to feel better today?

rosielightshines · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi

FIRST I am quoting debilyn here b/c this is the gospel truth....SHE SAYS, basically if she knew then what she knows NOW she would nver have married her A.....the whole post screams of the truth.

I am going to insert between paragraphs on your post...this is my experience, strength and hope....you can use what you like and leave the rest.....look for me in blue

countrygirl84 wrote:

I'm not really sure where to start in here. A few months ago, I met an amazing wonderful guy and found out soon into it that he was a recovering alcoholic. He was very open and honest about it and I thought it would be no big deal because he was handling it. I am a very non-addictive person - never smoked and rarely drink and do not have any kind of struggles like that so I guess I didn't really know what I was getting myself into.
if he is brand new in recovery----RED FLAG.....people say that unless they have been in intensive recovery to get over the drinking AND the "ism" personality traits, they gotta be in recovery for , my sponsor said, 2years at least....anything other than that??? BEWARE....

Soon into him moving in, we starting fighting a lot and my temper flared and suddenly he is blaming me for problems I didn't even know or think that I had and now he has walked out of my life because he says I am too unstable and need help and he doesn't want to be around me and I just don't know what to do.

he moved in??? being on "good behaviour" went out the window....he got you and didn't have to pretense anymore......NOW the real him is coming out...the fighting..temper/anger, blaming YOU instead of seeing his problems.....thank God he walked away....the "instability" he is accusing you of is your not being a drunk/user and of COURSE you are not going to relate to it......yea, you need to take care of you, right, but HE is the A...NOT you....all you need is to take care of you....you did right getting into al-anon...that shows me that YOU want to help YOU....GOOD JOB!!!!!!!............as debilyn said, if I knew then what I know now???? ANY alkie comi

ng at me, and I am gonna RUN for cover.....it just is not worth it....the pain....the worry....the topsy turvy life......the instability......the fear.....the anger/worry.......the trying to understand someone sick liek this...........the constant need to have to DETACH......set boundaries......

and detachment to me in this case is not a permannt fix.....detachment is , to me , only a temp measure to temporarily remove me from someone who is 1/2 way healthy to see their loss and to address the need to make amends....but w/ an alkie, i am detaching all the time.....WHY stay w/someone I gotta detach from all the time????? make sense???? and the having to set boundaries all the time....Would you want your daughter in this kind of situation??? What would you tell your best friend if she toldl you this story??????

I love him and I miss him and he won't even talk to me now. I know that only alcoholics can help another alcoholic to understand but I am just at a loss and do not know what to do or what to feel. I am a very strong and independent woman. I am 25 and a single mom and I have a great job and bought my own house and prior to meeting my A my life was great and now I feel like i am in absolute pieces and I just am looking for guidance.

Love is not enough....and love is a compiliation of HAPPY memories and LASTING good experiences w/someone.....is it attraction or real love????? what do you miss???? being sad, emotionally abused, abandoned b/c "you are unstable"???? OMG, do you really want your child aroudn this???? I am in aca for LIFE b/c my non drinking mom became and alkie b/c of the horrible abuse her "party animal" child molesting husband TURNED her crazy first...drunk second...... you have your own house???? a child???? a good job???? sounds like you have wonderful blessings....why jeapordize any of that???? i know....been there...done that....how many times have i had to start over b/c of alkies??? now i have my own home, paid for.....small consulting business......doing OK, b/c I am taking care of me and staying AWAY from toxic people.....

life is a CHOICE....your being given a 2nd chance to take care of you by his walking away.....somebody "up there" is trying to help you..protect you.....TAKE the blessing and come hre....work through the lesson you have learned and work through the grief and disappoint ment and thank your lucky stars he has not hurt your kid(s) and busted up your home and messed you up so you cannot work your job.......

i know it hurts to be left....it hurts to make a bad mistake,but thank heavens you didn't get so hurt it cannot be fixed...thank heavens he did not beat your child or worse....thank heavens he did not ruin your credit, or mess up YOUR home......

it hurts, but I promise you if you hang with us....work your program, and post and FEEL your feelings and just hang out here, you WILL get better and when you read the other awful and painful stories of gals NOT so lucky, you will thank your God that he/she spared you of this MISERY with a capital "M"......

your young...your whole life ahead of you....I pray you don't let it get destroyed at such a young age...You have done much good.....own job...own home....kid(s).....that child needs you....if your half nuts from this guy, how in the heck are you going to give the little one(s) a decent chance in life..........its not just you, now, its your kid's future riding on this too.....

I pray you THINK about this......I would LET IT GO....Cry my tears, experience the grief and learn the lesson it offered that you deserve better and that there are screwed up people out there...

your post shows me you are a loving, caring person....your young....this is a hard lesson, but be thankful he did not do worse.....

please take what you can use from this and dump the rest.....

From a victim twice over of TWO alkies, i wish I had NEVER gotten with......It took me a long time to recover the damage they did to me.......

I want him back and I know that is selfish but here I had thought I found the person I was going to spend the rest of my life with and now he is gone and I can't even figure out where it happened. His moods switched from good to bad so fast that I barely had the chance to keep up. He is not even 6 months sober in his recovery.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

I think you partially answered your own question, when you said he only has six months of sobriety under his belt.... Now is an awesome time to start working on you, and your recovery - regardless of what he does or doesn't do.

When reading responses to appeals for advice, please remember that we cannot possibly have enough information to give you anything but suggestions, and what has worked for us.... Toby Rice Drews has an awesome quote: "nobody has the right to tell you to leave your A, not even your therapist".

Getting yourself healthy will help make the decisions that are best for YOU and your child, much clearer... For some that is to stay, for others that is to go.... but you will be in a healthier place to make that decision.

Tom

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha CG....Wow and Wow again. Your's is an ageless story of addiction to an
alcoholic. I've known alot of strong and independent women who would have
said "Okay...next!! and then went for the bandaids and ointment. What is it
about what he did or does that lures you into "loving" him   I use to use that
language myself while in another thought asking myself "what the hell are you
doing?" Later I was to find out that enablers get as addicted to the alcoholic and
or the addict as they do to their chemical of choice. You have been told a couple
of times here tht 6 months is too short a time for recovery. Six months might not
even be the half life of his drinking. Alcoholics put their lives on hold for alcohol.
They don't grow and mature while they are addicted. Alcohol is everything to the
alcoholic and my alcoholic was everything to me.   If only I could save her. If only
she would stop for me. If only she would make me look good, better than I am
without her.    The disease beat my soul into the dirt and almost dug a hole for
it or was that me with the shovel...anyway The Al-Anon Family Groups were
there to get it back for me and it was work.

As you can agree strong and independent isn't enough in this fight and he has
not drank for 6 months.   You know he might have woken up one day after
moving in with you and asked himself "what the hell am I doing?" realizing that
it was too much pressure and too much of a commitment for his sobriety. It
happens and has before. The next thing that sets in is fear and then it's fight
or flight or both.

It has caused you to come here looking for help and support. There is alot of
that here including empathy, compassion, love and more. Stick around and I
hope you're not soooo independent that you won't look into the suggestion
of a live face to face Al-Anon meeting for about 90 days. There is lots of
literature at the meetings and many women and men also who can help you
understand what happened and what you did, what they learned to do different
and what their lives are now.

I don't see moving a person in with you as dating. With dating I'm still looking
over alot of my options and I need to do "Easy does it."   I hope it works out
for you both.

(((((hugs))))) smile

rosielightshines · ~*Service Worker*~

Later I was to find out that enablers get as addicted to the alcoholic and
or the addict as they do to their chemical of choice.

Wow, Jerry, this is an awesome tid bit of info i hadn't thought of....it gives me hope in MY recovery b/c as you said "fixer uppers come here" or words to that affect.....me 2...it seemed like i was fly paper to these "flies" that would stick tome.....i felt like i was velcro....now i am becoming teflon to these NON keepers......when i even smell someone is abusing any substance???? I am GONE---- POOF......i don't look back....

countrygirl84 · Newbie

Thanks to everyone for your kind words. I found a meeting close to my home tomorrow evening for beginners that I am going to attend. Regardless of the status the my relationship with the A ends up, I need to figure a few things out. I know that I am not perfect and sure it may have been my temper that led him to finally leave but I can see now that I think about it that my temper would have never flared had I not been dealing with all the classic symptoms and excuses of an alcoholic. Here I was sitting here thinking how in the world did I get so messed up to drive someone that is so much more messed up than me away... but it's not that at all. I guess that is pretty much what they are good at.

It's very hard. I miss him and even though I know that he is not necessarily good for me in some aspects in my life - there are other parts that he added to greatly. Like for instance with my son. He doesn't have a dad that is involved in his life at all and my A was a great great benefit for him. I saw huge positive changes in my son while he was around. Hopes and dreams and the lifestyle I want to have were all there with him. Church and things we were looking for in a relationship all seemed to line up - but again, that was when he was working his steps and thinking clear and when he stopped doing that, it all came to blows.

Pretty much the last place I thought I would find myself in but regardless I am here and it is the choices I make from this point forward that will determine how good or bad the next part is!

rosielightshines · ~*Service Worker*~

I know that I am not perfect and sure it may have been my temper that led him to finally leave but I can see now that I think about it that my temper would have never flared had I not been dealing with all the classic symptoms and excuses of an alcoholic. Here I was sitting here thinking how in the world did I get so messed up to drive someone that is so much more messed up than me away... but it's not that at all. I guess that is pretty much what they are good at.

I think he was using your *righteous* anger as an excuse....I would get mad too, if one was treating me badly......he left b/c he wanted to..b/c drinking/using is what he wants to do....you didn't drive him to do anything.....did you stick a gun to his head???? threaten him w/a bomb????? NO!!! so whos choice was it???? HIS!!!!! all you did was try and take care of you.....and yea, they are good at making YOU feel like the bad guy......PLEASE hang w/us......your gonna be fine

countrygirl84 · Newbie

He isn't using or drinking again. He says he isn't working his steps like he should be and that he needs to focus on him and that I'm too broken to be around him while he is doing that.

I'm realizing that even if an alcoholic isn't drinking they are still very much an alcoholic - whether the substance is there or not. It's like he doesn't even know how to deal with his life or his thoughts or actions or anything that comes into his life. It's heart-breaking to find myself in this situation wanting someone back that I know is so toxic to me.

rosielightshines · ~*Service Worker*~

countrygirl84 wrote:

He isn't using or drinking again. He says he isn't working his steps like he should be and that he needs to focus on him and that I'm too broken to be around him while he is doing that.

I'm realizing that even if an alcoholic isn't drinking they are still very much an alcoholic - whether the substance is there or not. It's like he doesn't even know how to deal with his life or his thoughts or actions or anything that comes into his life. It's heart-breaking to find myself in this situation wanting someone back that I know is so toxic to me.

THIS , my little friend in recovery, is WHY I am so glad you are HERE!!! working the program will help you, working the steps, find out WHY, or WHAT happened in your childhood or past that would make you want to even THINK of settling for a no win situation like this......working on you will help you understand and love yourself so much that you will DEMAND equal and mutual and healthy relationships or your outta there.....there has to be some thing in the past that caused you to not want better for yourself....i see that you SEE it, that is part of recovery...coming out of denial that "yea i got a problem and need help"..... "wanting someone back that I know is so toxic for me"....WHY??? how natural is that???? is that God's plan???? I DOUBT it!!!!!! wanting what is bad for us???? what happened to cause us to self destruct???? for me??? it was child abuse = no self esteem.....i foudn that out in the steps/program...... PLEASE keep coming back.....

another poster on this board said that she would not take a front seat to ANYone using or drinking...the door is shut...that is THEIR choice...THEIR life and she sleeps good, keeping it away from her....I am on the same page..........why???? i got me into recovery and FOUND my self love and self care........if i CAN.....you CAN....

countrygirl84 · Newbie

Even before I met him, I have always struggled with being happy with what I have. I'm a pretty successful person but it seems like no matter what I do - I'm always wanting for the "whats next" instead of appreciating the here and now.

I'm not ready to completely accept the fact that we are totally over and that there might not be a chance that we can co-exist productively and happily together. I have to believe for myself that if it is possible for me to find my own happiness and serenity through this program that it is also possible for him to do the same.

rosielightshines · ~*Service Worker*~

countrygirl84 wrote:

Even before I met him, I have always struggled with being happy with what I have. I'm a pretty successful person but it seems like no matter what I do - I'm always wanting for the "whats next" instead of appreciating the here and now.

I'm not ready to completely accept the fact that we are totally over and that there might not be a chance that we can co-exist productively and happily together. I have to believe for myself that if it is possible for me to find my own happiness and serenity through this program that it is also possible for him to do the same.

Of COURSE it is possible for him to do the same, but do you think you can make him do it??? or do you think you can help you and only you??? ya see?? that is what we learn in recovery....we CANNOT make anyone else do anything......We can ONLY change OURSELVES......YES you can find serenity, ANYone can IF they want it.....You can only help you....

I would think of it this way....can I eat for someone else???? no
can i expell toxins for another??? NO....can my heat beat for another???? NO.....Our bodys do what is the correct thing....they work ONLY for us.....they CANNOT work for another....so why do we think our MINDS work for another when it is really only for US??? THAT is where choice and free will comes in....FIRST it is physically impossible for us to eat/breathe/cleanse for another.....its ALSO mentally/spiritually impossible for us to pray/think/learn/express for another....there is a reason for this....it is called "walking our own path....our own journey" and if another's journey hurts MY journey...it is time for me to take care of me...put the fences up where there are gates, so I can take in the good and kick out the bad....walls no longer work for me b/c walls keep bad in and good out....i like fences with gates.....its up to US to take care of US..

would YOu want someone dictating to YOU??? NO!!! So we gotta let another live or die if that is what they want....AND do we want to be a part of their self destruct???? Not ME!!!!! and HOPEFULLY when you have worked the program long enough, you will see that there is WAY better things God has for you, but even God Respects boundaries....he won't force himself on anyone....WE have to REACH for what we want.....

i hope this made sense...PLEASE keep coming back....You are WORTH it....

Christy · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi and welcome :)

If it makes you feel any better...what he is doing and saying is typical. He is mirroring his feelings about himself and expressing them against you. HE is broken and he knows it. It's a form of denial. They feel bad about themselves and who they are so they turn it outward and blame everyone but themselves. Thus starts the cycle many of us have lived.
It's total insanity. Only little by little we begin to take it on and accept what they are saying. Strong people become doubtful and unsure of who they are from all the verbal abuse and begin to believe what they say..

I'm really glad you found a meeting. You will find support and a new way of thinking of yourself. You will find that you are enough and deserve to be treated with love and respect.

take care,
Christy

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha again CG...just to break my own anonymity a little I am a member of the
Al-Anon Family Groups who never wants to take another drink. I participate
in both programs. The point? Both sides of the room are for broken people
trying to get whole. Even professionals have a hardtime reaching in and helping
the participants of the disease.   I didn't get into the AFG because I had a screwed
up wife. I got in because I was screwed up and....I didn't know and so couldn't
admit it until years later that I had been severely addicted to alcohol inspite of all
I learned in Al-Anon.   One side wasn't more justified or better than the other and
I had to get over it and get humble. I had been born and raised within the disease
of alcoholism and drug addiction from both sides of my family and after my natural
father passed away when I was six...three years later my mother married my
father's best friend by arrangement and he was alcoholic.     We don't come with
operation manuals and we don't get to choose our families.

There is no way to diagnose the alcoholic accurately and only professionals
are educated and trained to make the attempt and still the very best person who
can know the how and why of an alcoholic is another alcoholic and that is the best
person to help.   Right, wrong, indifferent, slim, fat, ugly, handsome, young or old...
HP uses alcoholics who have surrendered their addiction and started to crawl one
step at a time out of hell; sincerely and humbly to help other alcoholics. It is done
the same way in Al-Anon. I was jealous and rageful when my alcoholic wife went
to AA and had a period of time of sobriety because it showed where I had failed
and was powerless and because I was the one who wanted to do that first for me
and then for her and anyone else who was looking.   It's dishonest and still the
reason. I was addicted to her and I wanted the power and control for myself and
still it was another alcoholic woman struggling to remain sober who "fixed" the
problem. It was HP's will for her.   HP's will for me was tossed in the trash and I
stayed out of recovery until there was nothing left and I had assisted my wife
back to drinking.

I am still so amazed at how things have turned out after I totally let go and let
Al-Anon and then Al-Anon and God and then God always and Al-Anon to my
best attempts.   I don't know why others do what they do and what they get
out of it beyond my own experiences. I know there are differences and it's in
the differences that I learn. There are many similarities also and it is in the
similarities that I don't feel alone and so guilty and stupid.

I'll pass a little lesson I got in the AFG early..."Take your alcoholic out from under
the microscope and turn the focus on yourself only." It's for this that we have the
program.

I'm glad that meeting you are going to will have another new comer. It's the
new comers that keep us honest and real.

(((((hugs))))) smile

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

If you hope to have a relationship with an alcoholic get yourself to Al-Anon quick , drinking or not it will help , learn about this disease and how it affects you , get the focus back on you leave his problem with him . early sobriety is tough and if he is blaming you for his problems he is simply not ready to take responsibility for his part in the relationship .

SatoriGirl · Newbie

For two weeks, I have been dating a very fresh recovering alcoholic, he's a month sober and two months out of a relationship. I think at times I can see better than he can what a journey he has ahead of him. I can see him catching himself at blame-games, denial, minimising, etc, although none of it has been directed towards me. I am a bit concerned the intensity of his feelings is due to him no longer being numb, and maybe putting me on a pedestal. I know he's not meant to be dating yet, for more than one reason.

The thing is I have never dating a more honest guy, alcoholic or not. I've certainly never met a guy more committed to his own development. He is actively going to meetings, daily. He knows he replaced alcohol with coffee and has started drinking herbal tea. He jokes self-depractingly about how he thought he'd "have this knocked over in a month". We have a lot of values in common and at this early stage seem quite compatible. I'm well-aware of my own tendancies towards codependancy and I have just listened when he's wanted to talk, and offered my observations/advice only once. He's very responsive to my needs when I state them and far less manipulative than my last boyfriend. We're not going to jump into living together, we're very much taking it day, by day and I think it would be good for me to get some kind of support whether alanon or something else, but even though its early days for both his sobriety and our relationship I must say I feel more positive about our potential for success than any other relationship I've had. I know he's got a long way to go and some deeper issues yet to be uncovered. I've worked quite hard to get rid of my rose-coloured glasses, so I can't believe I'm that far off the mark, but all common sense seems to say Stop Go No Further, but my gut says it'll be ok. I haven't seen the Stop sign yet, maybe I just have to keep going until I get to it?

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"