The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I thought I'd start a new thread on this topic, although it was seeded by this comment from Joelle in the "Hard Sell" thread: I have always felt the way you do. Alanon seems to me to be a last resort. When you can no longer deal with the crap of the A in your life you turn to Alanon for support in letting go. It seems to me Alanon should be more like a therapy session with a trained moderator. We all know we can no longer deal with someone in our life behaving badly. I went looking for advice, but no one is allowed to give advice.
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and wrote the checks. Four years worth. I learned a lot in group therapy - a lot about myself, probably most importantly how I am perceived by others. Things I do well - such as talking at length to the ceiling, or being sarcastic, are perceived as boring. I learned why I often had trouble getting my point through, it was because the people I was talking to were thinking about their laundry by the time I got to the point.
Therapy had its purpose, but it was finished. Alanon is ongoing. It's not like therapy, there is no "trained moderator". Thank God. In therapy, counseling, or other professional services, it's that moderator's job to be above his or her clients. They are professional. They adhere to certain professional ethics and standards - they don't become emotionally involved. That's as it should be. But in that role, they are prohibitted from sharing *their* experience, strength, and hope. Perhaps on a limited anecdotal basis, but therapists generally do not share their lives with their clients. They must maintain a position of - if you will - superiority.
In Alanon, no one is superior to anyone else. This takes some getting used to. There is no one person who has the answers, or who can act as an authority over another. The highest authority is the person running the meeting - that authority is temporary, and only exists for the purpose of order - to allow others to share their ESH without being interrupted by cross-talk.
Maybe this is the alcoholic in me talking - but - I find the relative anarchy and lack of authority in AA and Alanon meetings to be refreshing, candid, hopeful, friendly, and most of all: home! Alcoholics are traditionally rebels against authority; Alanons are traditionally authorities (or wannabe authorities) whose lives are turned topsy turvy by trying to control the uncontrollable. We come to Alanon not to learn how to control the uncontrollable. Step two says "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity". It doesn't say "...restore us to power". I am quite certain that in my years in AA and Alanon, I have not become the slightest bit more powerful. I wasn't God then, I'm not God now.
My earliest rebellion against authority came after repeated letdowns. When I was bullied as a kid, I was told by parents, teachers, don't fight them - don't take matters into your own hands - come tell us. I told them, and the result was that *I* was the one punished, put down, humiliated... and the bullying continued. Nothing changed until I took matters into my own hands. Being a rebel, out-of-the-box, self-motivator worked for me. Trusting the system didn't. I realize the irony of being in Alanon today, because as an alcoholic I was the rebel but as an Alanon (simultaneously no less), I was part of the same system I was rebelling against. The system of control, or the illusion of it - the feeling that we are somehow required to control other people. That the law requires it, or at the very least our reputation. I remember being an active alcholic, yet butting heads with school authorities trying to be sure my kids were perceived as "normal" - my alcoholic daughter and her acting out reflected on me, so I thought.
Now that daughter is a professional therapist, who by day must keep that professional distance. Aloofness if you will - she was always good at it. Her own recovery is valuable to her I'm sure, and probably helps her clients trust her more - but she can't tell her personal story... not while getting paid for it. But come to a meeting where she's speaking and you can hear that story for free.
Therapy is for concentrated effort. It should have goals (none of which should be spending the rest of your life in therapy). Alanon is a program for living. I no longer do therapy - the option remains, should the need arise. But I don't plan to stop my Alanon (or AA) any time soon. That's the difference.
Who was it that said this: "Do not follow me, for I might not lead. Do not lead me, for I might not follow. Walk beside me and be my friend."
Barisax Walking the Road of Happy Destiny beside many friends
i don't see therapy as being a relationship with someone in authority rather a collaborative one. I also work in collaboration with my sponsor. I prefer that method of working. I think al anon is very helpful but it is not a place to discuss family of origin issues in depth. As someone who has been boundaryless most of my life boundaries are critical for my self preservation these days.
Great post. I also did therapy and received many insights, however I could not effectively change myself with all the knowledge.
Yes, I arrived at alanon as a last resort and stayed. I stayed because there were no authority figures, it was a fellowship of equals, no advise was given and I was permitted to Take What I liked and leave the rest. This profound organization was actually walking the walk of spirituaity in action.
When I arrived at the doors of alanon I was in a spiritual coma and did not even know it. Using the tools opened my heart and being to another dimension that I didnot even know existed.
I will always need this spiriual dimension to my life so I will keep coming back, praying and living one day at a time.
anyone trying to lead us would be like trying to herd cats... we already have a problem with authority figures when we walk thru the doors and into the rooms. its the last thing we need- someone telling us what to do.
I love my therapist, man.
She is the best. I adore her. I have had maybe a half dozen shrinks during my life time and she is the BEST. Its two different things, with two different angles and purposes and functions, just like you said. At different times in my life, different things worked best for me. I have had my seasons and will continue to. A constellation of approaches works best for me- its like different tools in the old toolbox.
I love al anon, man.
Its the best and I adore the different home groups I have loved in and been loved in; each one so unique.
I feel sooo grateful that my recovery and serenity and sanity insurance is multi-faceted and full of variety, just like me.
i don't see therapy as being a relationship with someone in authority rather a collaborative one. I also work in collaboration with my sponsor. I prefer that method of working. I think al anon is very helpful but it is not a place to discuss family of origin issues in depth. As someone who has been boundaryless most of my life boundaries are critical for my self preservation these days.
To clarify, I was responding to Joelle's phrasing "trained moderator" and by inference, the group setting rather than one-on-one therapy. The group I belonged to was led by two therapists, and most of the group members behaved as if they were an authority. By that I mean, they not only conducted the meeting, but they had the power to interrupt someone, steer the conversation, cross-talk, etc - stuff you would not normally see in a 12-step meeting. I found it very frustrating at first but it did teach me to collect my thoughts and spit out my point, even if I had to omit the back story and lead-in.
There are certainly plenty of people who view a therapist as an authority figure. We bestow titles to doctors, lawyers, psychologists - the reality is they are human beings like the rest of us. They are professionals in their area of expertise. But so is a plumber, electrician, auto mechanic, computer technician, etc. It's a fine line sometimes between an expert and an authority, but I frequently question both.
Sometimes I think the goal of therapy is to grow enough balls to fire your therapist. Not necessarily because they aren't doing the job, but to be able to terminate them when their work is finished - or when your own work takes you in another direction. I was able to do this when the time came, and thanks in large part to the work I had done, I was able to do this as a free and full choice and convey that to the therapist. In other words, I wasn't firing the therapist out of anger, or frustration, or dissatisfaction - I was simply changing direction.
I have had two rounds in therapy. Between the age of about 11 and 17, I saw a psychiatrist pretty much weekly. I didn't like him, and I didn't trust him. IMO to continue to keep me as a patient was unethical. He should have disqualified himself. I guess one reason I never insisted on finding someone else is because the Dr. himself convinced me that any other psychiatrist would be pretty much the same. When I came back to therapy in adulthood - I was already sober 5 years, and I had at least some idea what I wanted. I wanted a psychologist, not a psychiatrist. I wasn't looking for drugs. I wanted a female therapist - I wanted someone who would be a compassionate figure, a listener... not another male "friend" of which I had many. Just having someone's undivided attention for 50 minutes a week was worth the price of admission. I know that many people are uncomfortable with an opposite-sex therapist, but in my case I wanted to talk about stuff that I knew I could never talk about with other guys. It worked for me. So for a time I was doing both individual and group therapy - very different tools for different things - and also doing AA of course.
I guess that's the word - tool. No program, no therapist, can live our lives for us. They are tools - we have to learn to use them, even if we are clueless when we first reach out for help. All have been valuable in my life, including the tools I still use, and that includes self-awareness gained from group therapy sessions. Even my childhood psychiatrist left me with some valuable tidbits, even if it didn't seem helpful at the time.
I've also seen therapists who do act as authority figures. I've even seen people proclaiming themselves to be "therapists" working the rooms in Alanon meetings... whether they were actually trained, licensed therapists or not, they were out of line in Alanon. When confronted about this, they vanished. There are probably some 12-step meetings out there that have an authoritarian structure - and they have their followers. That's not for me - when I see that kind of behavior in a meeting, I challenge it and/or go elsewhere. Maybe some people find recovery in a strict authoritarian structure. It can work in the near term, but if a person is to function in the real world, they have to pick up the tools and use them on their own.
Believe me I've had my share of bad outings in therapy. I no longer look to it as the source for my healing. I do use it as a "tool" but its just that not the be all and end all of my life. I've had plenty of really difficult times with therapists and seen some who really could care less. I have one right now who is helpful I also have a sponsor who's helpful. What's changed in my life is that I'm now more self reliant, that may be due to years in therapy and now a good time in al anon but its also due to my giving up living with an active alcoholic and making a big effort to avoid active alcoholics at all costs.
Another great discussion Barisax!! Such response from the family. My experience as a human being (bean?) draws me closer to the similarities with my other family members. "Been there done that!" the slogan of shared experiences and yet there were some differences if you take into consideration personalities. Only one of the programs gems is the philosophy of principles before personalities as our last tradition offers.
Been there done that from bothsides of the couch. I relate to all of the responses and as I feel that relationship I am reminded that one of the definitions of the Al-Anon and AA recovery groups is "Social model therapy"; those affected helping others affected, to recovery. My relationships with counselors was as human as any I've had...at times love and admiration and at other times resistance and dis- belief and rejection. Yes I have had a counselor get upset with my relationship with Al-Anon and I could understand the friction was because of different approaches and practices. I also had and took several opportunities to counsel the counselor (mutual) because the human counselor needed to "change chairs" for that moment. Funny when I counseled I still payed him his fee(!!?). No resentments honest!!. I have learned and gained more from those who were not in my life to counsel or lead me. All of it came unintentionally. I went to the meeting intentionally and ended up getting a piece of me saved by someone who went there also looking for further help. "...If you keep and open mind you will find help." (closing statement). Therefore I was led to rather than led by. Mostly I can say I was led by suggestion and experience from others. I've had a few professional counselors who would jump when I would ask them, "What did you do under these circumstances?" I knew they were human just like me and had experiences however toooo bad the professional wall was up and they weren't talking. Al-Anon is moderated for sure...by the customs and traditions of our program. It has been assured that we don't have and don't need leaders when we voluntarily rely upon the steps and traditions for guidance. You've heard and know examples of times when that didn't happen and how the meeting turned out...Can we get dysfunctional? LOL you bet!! Every meetings I have attended whether it is a daily or weekly or conference or assembly or whatever is governed by the steps, traditions and concepts of service. I might at times be moved to focusing on my laundry from time to time but I never loose the focus that I am right where I am supposed to be and that I am in the best place around. This is where my HP wants me to be regardless of my will and choices. I got my soul spirit and sanity back in the rooms of the Al-Anon Family Groups and AA when nothing else worked. This works best for me because it's core emotion is Love and honesty, openess and willingness and more. That is why MIP has been by far the most visited web site on my computer.
Gratefully (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 8th of April 2009 04:46:06 PM
