The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
How can I get an online sponsor or do I have to go to a f2f to get one?
How can I get some details on how to detach?
Are there other options to improving my relationship with an addict besides detaching or leaving?
Let me give some background. I am married to an addict who has been clean in NA for 9 months now. I am starting to see some old behaviors from her and I feel liek she is not working the program as well as she could be, even though she is far better than she has been in the past 3 years.
I am not an addict, but I have been going to NA meetings with her for a while now. I personally get something out of the program myself and I like supporting her efforts.
Recently, she lied to me about something relatively small, but it affected me a lot. She said she would focus more on her recovery and not get a job (which is a precursor to relapse for her). A few days later, she leaves walking and catches a ride with a stranger (old behavior) to go put in some applications.
When I found out about it, I was livid to the point that I realized that I need help dealing with the emotions I get from being affected by actions I cannot control and mistakes I cannot cure.
Since then, I got some books, attended some meetings, and found this site to try and start al anon. Based on what I've found so far, I am trying to detach and I think I may be doing it wrong because I dont talk to her much anymore and it is affecting our relationship. She tried to reach out, but I am so numb to her attempts now because I feel like embracing her apologies will just make her feel comfortable enough to start the cycle again and she will do something else in a couple of weeks that will have me upset again.
I dont know if I need to chill out, split, or get used to leaving like this. From what I understand, all of these are my choice; however, none of them sound good to me.
When I first got here I needed to do what you are doing now...meetings, books (Conference Approved Literature) and reaching out and asking for honest help with the willingness to follow thru. That of course is not what I did. I did detachment from my personal program (ego/self) I detached with disinterest, detached with anger and then learned to detach with unconditional love. By that time we were split however it was necessary I would later find out. For me the very best sponsors are in the program working it and easy to reachout for and get. They are willing to support me the ones that are not say no when I ask.
We have slogans...Easy does it works great for new comers. Take your time. You didn't get here over night and you would find resolution over night either.
There is lots and lots of experience and help here and more than a handful of guys with addicted spouses past and or present. I suggest coming back here on a daily basis for now and as many face to face meetings as you can get to for yourself over the next 90 days along with the literature.
You sound very qualified to be here with family. I relate to your share closely I know there are other resourses. I know that of all that I tried Al-Anon is what worked and worked wonders.
hey Carlos, great honest post you wrote, welcome to this great spot. Come back often and read old posts, its really a miraculous place.
I think what Jerry said is really good which in a nutshell: SLOW DOWN! My experience, strength and hope is that I felt a deep compulsion to "fix" the relationship and the addicts/alcoholics in my life fast, with efficiency so I could move on and get past the pain, as if it were simply something to sweep up quickly. That never really worked for me and eventually caused me A LOT of resentment and anguish- towards myself (primarily) and most of the people I cared about in my life.
I know you can feel/sense a train wreck coming. I know that feeling so very well. You are not alone. Its super scary but what this program teaches me is that there is a power much greater than myself who can deal with all that when I become aware of the fact that I CANNOT and simply turn it over and LET IT GO.
You have come to a place where we know that "train wreck coming soon" feeling very acutely. The trick is to not jump and freak when we get that feeling- my two cents, welcome and keep coming back! Jean
Welcome to MIP. Here you will find great wisdom and the answer to your questions.
I found MIP when my partner went into rehab, I was confused, exhausted and quite frankly at my wits end. Early recovery is a difficult time for the addict and their partners. A time of great change and discovery. He is now 10 months clean and working his program in NA. I can identify alot with your post.
My experience strength and hope to you is get into your own program. For me working my own 12 step program in Alanon stopped me trying to fix him. I was so oblivious to all my controling ways, I found that as he got clean and started growing as an individual I just kept on trying to control and direct him, still wanting him 'needing' me. I wanted his recovery so much, but didnt see for that to happen I had to get out the way and I got out the way by getting into my recovery,out the way of of his program, leaving him to get better. By focusing on myself and my recovery from codependance my life has improved beyond recognition. I dread to think of the damage I would have inflicted on his recovery if I hadnt of found Alanon and MIP, it was a miracle that led me here and the miracles just keep on coming.
Carlos come here and read the posts as much as you can, and keep posting. There are also online meetings twice a day, if you cant get to face to face (f2f) meetings. I know you have many questions and you will find the answers. As Jerry said it wont be overnight but you will find them. For me its ODAT. One day at a time , Easy Does It, and most importantly, Keep Coming Back.
With love hugs and Gratitude Carol
-- Edited by Mariner on Friday 3rd of April 2009 06:40:20 AM
Welcome to the MIP family. Here you will find great experience, hope, strength, wisdom and humor (good for the ).
I applaud you for wanting support wife by going to meetings with her. I too went to some AA meetings with my husband because I found a new perspective on the disease. However, I also made sure I got to mine. AA/NA meetings are fine, but we have a different set of issues. That's what Alanon is for. Learning as much as you can about this disease called addiction is incredibly helpful. Learning about our recovery through Alanon is a life saver.
By going to face to face meetings you will have many questions answered. They will give you the tools neccessary to work on your recovery. Her recovery is up to her. All you can do is turn her over to her HP and leave the rest up to her. The BEST thing you can do to support her, is to work on your recovery. I know this sounds counter productive, but it isn't. Trust me.
Remember to be gentle on yourself. Take those baby steps in recovery. There's alot to absorb and you can't do it in a week. An addict didn't get this way in a week, neither did we. It takes time and patience. You'll get there. Please keep coming back to us. Join us for online chat or meetings and keep posting. I wish you both well on your recoveries. Much love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty <-- the cat
__________________
It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Carlos, This is a wonderful place to ask these very important questions. And, yes, these questions are valid, and this is a safe place to ask. I believe in f2f meetings and sponsorship. I believe in them because they worked for me. Something about having my sponsor in real time, at real place...that makes a huge difference. She can also teach me suggestions pertinent to my situations, so I dont fall into black/white thinking. Somethign I'm good at. Lastly: your DA may get away with her behavior for awhile, but not forever. She'll get caught by her fellow in NA. People who don't work their program ALWAYS get caught. Just work your program and let her go.
Welcome to MIP... yes, you have come to the right place... :)
Al-Anon has NO bearing or direction for you as to whether or not you should leave/divorce your wife - far from it.... You will be encouraged to get yourself healthy, and that is never a bad thing....
In my opinion, going to NA meetings with your wife is not always the best idea - it's great to go on occasion, but she needs to own her own recovery, and have a safe haven to share openly, about anything at all.... The same goes for you, and I would encourage you to find an Al-Anon meeting in your area that is for YOU, and your recovery...
As far as online sponsorship is concerned - I'd encourage you to read here for awhile, see who you might find that you really connect with, and then ask them....
I'll copy below a post that I put up several months ago on detachment, hope it is helpful....
Take care Tom
Enabling vs. Detachment Hi all... we've had lots of great discussion on the board in recent weeks about the subjects of "enabling" and "detachment", so I thought I'd post some great information about both of these items, direct from an expert in the field..... Hope it clarifies some of the misconceptions out there....
Take care,
Tom
p.s. for those of you struggling with a child having addictions, I see that Toby has now written a book specifically aimed for you, entitled "Getting Your Children Sober". If it's anything like her original series, it's likely a valuable book for your recovery.....
The following is posted, with authorization, from Toby Rice Drews, author of the "Getting Them Sober" books on recovery.
In one of the chapters of the book, "Getting Your Children Sober", I wrote about the myths that most counselors believe, that lead them to mis-diagnose and be off-base in the treatment of the families of alcoholics that they have as patients.
Here, I"ve copied and pasted part of that chapter that deals with the myths that therapists often believe, when they are counseling the family where there is alcoholism/addiction---------- (to read several of the chapters from that and three other books, go to the section of this website called "DOZENS of GTS excerpted book chapters. If you don't have children or if they don't have problems with addiction/alcoholism, and if you are only dealing with adults with those problems, these chapters will still help you.)
"Myth #6: When parents are told they are enablers, it leads them to stop the enabling."
Enabling is meant to describe the rescue operations that the spouse or parent of an alcoholic carries out, when he cant stand watching the alcoholic suffer the consequences of the disease. When that happens, he cleans up the alcoholics messes (lies to the school that his son has the flu when the child was actually picked up for drunk driving). That way, the alcoholic doesnt suffer the real consequences of his behavior.
A parent must learn, eventually, to get some detachment on watching these crises happen in order to stop cleaning up after the child. The idea is to allow the disease to hurt the child so much that he or she wants to get sober. Of course, it takes a parent a lot of time in a healing group such as Al-Anon in order to be able to do this. And this detachment cant be forced or rushed by counselors. It is a slow process, and very frightening.
When a mother rescues her alcoholic child and I label her an enabler, she obviously is still doing the rescuing behaviors and is not yet unafraid enough to give them up. She knows I am being judgmental when I use this term. Even when I say it lovingly, I seem to be admonishing her to go faster than she is capable of doing at that time. And she feels despairing, because she is doing her best. She may get so discouraged and frustrated and overwhelmed that she stops treatment.
More specifically, the term enabler implies that while the parents did not cause the drinking, their rescue operations contributed to the perpetuation of the drinking. Such thinking is dangerous; it leads alcoholics, who are already looking for a way to blame others for the drinking, into again placing responsibility for the drinking on the family.
Alcoholics do not need any encouragement to blame others! Alcoholism counselors spend most of their time trying to crack through the blame-systems of alcoholics. It is considered to be a major breakthrough in the wellness process of alcoholics when they begin to acknowledge that nothing got them drunk. In contrast, alcoholics who have had relapses and are re-entering treatment are now often heard saying, I wouldnt have gone out that time if I hadnt been enabled!
The alternative to being labeled enablers is to teach you to end the rescue operations through the simple but effective process of detachment. For, detachment will help end your fears and it is your fears that originally caused you to rescue. And even though, in this book, we are primarily talking about parents and kids, the detachment process is especially important if you also are married to an alcoholic. It is important for you to lose your fears of that adult alcoholic so you can get on with your life and become more able to deal with your children-alcoholics.
How does detachment work? How does it help you to lose your fears of your alcoholic child or spouse? The general process goes something like this:
1) When you begin to learn ways to stop watching the alcoholic in order to begin the healing process of seeing to your own needs, the alcoholic has radar and senses this switch in focus.
2) Much of the games stop then, because the alcoholic child knows that less attention will be paid to him or her.
3) By continuing to focus on yourself instead of the alcoholic, you get an even greater distance (detachment) from the threats, and begin to lose your fears of them. You begin to see how you gave the alcoholic so much of his or her power. You can take it back!
4) Again, the alcoholic senses this. He or she begins to threaten even less.
5) You see that detachment works! You gain more confidence. Many of the illusions in your household are beginning to end.
6) You lose much of your preoccupation with the alcoholic. Your preoccupation was based on your needing to stop him or her from hurting you. You now see they are much less capable of hurting you than you thought. Theyve already done most of the damage they can do. But the game has been to keep up more of the same junk, to keep up the illusion that the alcoholic is powerful. This no longer works. You have learned not to look at him or her; to walk out of the room; out of the house to not beg.
7) The alcoholic now stands alone with his or her disease. Theyve lost their audience, and therefore drop much of the bullying. You are not watching it.
The alcoholic can no longer get you to believe you are responsible for his or her drinking and for the craziness in that house.
9) The alcoholic has a chance to grow up and make a decision to get help.
10) You are free.
When I teach parents the dynamic of what I have just described, they begin to naturally let go of the disease to detach, and therefore stop their rescuing because they are losing their fears of the alcoholics. All of us stop manipulating and controlling people when we lose our fears of them.
* * *
As a therapist, I try to let parents know that I will gently help them along the not-straight road toward freedom from their fears. I let them know that they do not have to meet a timetable. In fact, I let them know that I am aware that I do not walk in their shoes, that they must be comfortable to make even a small step; that what I will do is love and accept them, even when they vacillate in their ability to detach from the disease.
I let the parents know that I know they will be ready some day. I try to give them the same hope that Al-Anon holds out that my acceptance of them will be part of the healing and will help move them along toward health and the choices that they now can only dream of.
And then, gently, naturally, interventions do happen, because with one hand I provide the healing embrace and comfort of total acceptance and without pressure; while with the other hand, I hold up the mirror of reality and nudge them along ever so gently toward reality.
P.S.------ People sometimes ask me, "well, if he is never home, and if he is supposed to pay my cable tv bill, I am the one who feels deprived, not him, if I don't rescue and pay the bill".
What I reply is, "We all have to use our God-given common sense. There are no totally-black-and-white answers. When alcoholism counselors say, "don't rescue'-----they do not mean that one should NEVER rescue. OF COURSE if you see an alcoholic who has fallen down in the street and is bleeding, you call an ambulance! That is just using your common sense. But what we encounter daily, are the non-life-threatening issues that we need to learn to deal with----------again, in a common-sense way--------
a. if he runs up a bar bill, we often say, "don't pay it for him" b. If he needs his golf course bill paid---------and if he takes clients there who pay him well and that income pays your child's tuition and your mortgage------ then it's often better to pay it! c. if he is supposed to pay the utilities and he does not-------it's often best to pay them so that you have electricity! d. if he is violent-------OF COURSE you FIRST AND LAST------ do or do-not-do what is best, to protect yourself and your children. e. if you are terrified to lose him---------that he would leave if you didn't rescue his bills------- then you must do what YOU want to do------
As one of my chapter titles in my books says, "no one has the right to tell you to leave the alcoholic---------not even your counselor".
We all have the right to heal in our own time, in our own way.
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Detachment does not mean to sever or separate , we simply remove our selves emotionally from thier stuff , her recovery or lack of it is none of your business , we don't have the right to say thier not working thier program , she is still clean and sober so she is working something . Recovery is not easy for anyone , often we the non drinkers have more trouble with i than the alcoholic does , we do like to know whats goin on hehe . Letting go is not easy for any of us , but necessary to our own recovery . Find meetings f2f u need support , buy and read the literature, do what it says to the best of yor ability , give yourself 6 months in this program before making life altering decissions, leave her to AA and God and let Al-Anon and God take care of you . this stuff works , but not as l ong as were looking at what others are or are not doing , Your recovery requires your full attention . Many yrs ago I made the decission to give * US* to God and work on myself because what I was doing was just not working . luck , faith and alot of hard work on each of our parts (both in a program ) we have survived 20 yrs of sobriety . we print a pamhplet called Detachment it's 5cents it explains detachment what to do and what not to do . a book called Dilema of the Alcoholic Marriage is awsome , talks alot about communication , talks about sobriety how to get thru it it is an awsome book one I can not do with out even today . Literature can be purchased at your f2f meetings or ordered for you by the group rep . keep going to meetings , look after you and your gonna be just fine .
Welcome Carlos I have found that attending regular Alanon meetings, reading (and really meditating) on the literature, and this board are a Godsend. The ability to hear from others and hear how the 12 steps have helped them and how to work them in a way that is meaningful to me is priceless. I participate in this board to vent and seek inspiration from others between my f2f.
). 
The alcoholic can no longer get you to believe you are responsible for his or her drinking and for the craziness in that house. 