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Hello, I am new here and pretty new to world of diagnosed alcoholism. My AH has been a drinker for most of the 16 years we have been married and has been sober for 9 months on 03/29/09. Thank you, God! His pattern of drinking was about every 6-8 weeks going on a 1 day binge. I had an inkling there was a problem but he was always contrite and remorseful and wasn't going to do it again, especially if harm had been done. AH is on anti-deppressants, heart meds, and is recently diagnosed with Passive Aggressive disorder stemming from a very abusive childhood. 9 months ago, started an afternoon of beer drinking, blackedout from a reaction of the alcohol and antideppressant, became physical abusive towards his brother and was arrested for disorderly conduct. Released the next day on his own recognizance, walked across town in his socks and asked a friend to bring him home. He showed up here a very confused and beaten man. He had no recollection of anytime past his second or third beer and still remembers nothing of that night. As terms of his sentence he started attending alcohol counseling and AA at least twice weekly and was put on 18 months probation. We were already in marriage counseling and he now needs to attend individual counseling as well. This is his first offense (in the court system ) so he was not charged on the felony assault (he spit on a corrections officer). About 4 mo into this program, he starts texting and calling a female AA member from his home group. This goes on for 3 1/2 mo. before I find out about it. They say doing nothing wrong, but all jokes she was sharing with him were sexual in nature and he felt it necessary to hide the goings on from me because I would "freak out". Also, he had an exclusive texting relationship with her. He has never used texting to communicate with me or any of his children. She stopped attending AA (relapse) and texting him out of the blue. My stance is it was an emotional affair and if you have a fragile relationship, why damage it more? Because he's sick, I know. So, I figure out what my bottom line is in all this as he says he wants to work it out. In the 6 wks since I found out I have attended Al-Anon, ( only 3 meetings so far) and doing work with our counselor. What I find (and this is really my question) is that the it seems my Al-Anon messages are conflicting with my boundary issues from my bottom line. For example, until a small amount of trust can be built again, I have requested of my AH to limit his interactions with females to just that of our immediate friends, family and to that of interaction in the classrooms of AA and alcohol counseling programs as needed. One thing that happens is they gather before class, at breaktime and sometimes after class for smoke breaks. He doesn't need to be rude but he doesn't need to be involved, either. He can just say, Hi, how are ya, I'll see you in the classroom. So, Al-Anon says I am controlling more than just myself in that situation as I understand it. I haven't had the courage to tell my story out loud at a meeting yet. Can you please give me some thoughts on this? Thank you for helping.
Hi, and welcome to MIP.... I don't think Al-Anon "says" any such thing, about what you can or cannot do.... If you need this, as a boundary, for your well being, then it is all well and good.... All that Al-Anon would challenge you, is to examine your motives, and ensure that you ARE doing this for your needs, and not to control him..... Ours is not a program where there are definitive rights or wrongs - just tried and true experience at what works, and what does not....
Personally, I don't think the boundary you are requesting is out of line at all.
Take care
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Only you can make the choices in your life for the boundry's you put down..But again you can't force others to do as you please... It is a disease, that is why in al-anon, I have learned to put the focus back on ME... ONLY then can you really see, and know what it is you really want, or are affraid of... Al-anon is a great place to be when you work with the program for "Progress, not Profection"... I have alot of "daily Readers" I got from al-anon, and I start my days with them.. They help... I am not married to my A, it "was" my Afather, and is my Siblings and such now... Alot of Friends... I didn't find al-anon till I had lost my father, but I am so grateful I did... I am so grateful that they allowed me to come here and 'vent' on my rough days and 'shine' on my good days...
Take it One Day At A Time, and work your program... It is about YOU ... ONLY You, and tho it would be nice to tell the A's in our life "How to work their program" We can't... It is their program...
I understand your concern...Alot of us do, but putting the focus back on yourself, instead of on him, will help you get to a better place, and then you will know were you are headed and why... Take your time... Be gentle on yourself, and mainly KEEP COMING BACK...
Take what you like and leave the rest... I hope you continue with your (F2F) Face 2 face meetings... You will soooo benifit from them if you are willing to listen & learn, and share your thoughts and feelings... It is a wonderful family to have on your side :) Friends in Recovery ... ;) Jozie...
Your post reminded me of something that has happened with my A hubby and I. Personally knowing people who's spouses have had affairs with someone they met in the program, and my husband already having a previous affair, I found it necessary to tell my husband that if he found a female friend in the program that he starts growing close to that he better tell me. I told him that it was in "our" best interest that I find out from him and not anyone else. I told him that I will not tollerate another affair and HE better pick his AA friends wisely and I'd prefer they not be female unless I know them personally. He said he understood.
I also am glad you found MIP and the Family Groups...there is a bit of a difference still there are many practicing Al-Anon members and AA fellows here to share with you. You get to read what it was like for us, what we learned and how it is now.
Power and control and manipulation just is. Like Tom mentioned we have our motives intentional and unintentional. The program helps us to learn about ourselves mostly and to change ourselves where needed. It also gives us a heads up on a Power Greater than ourselves and our attempts to mold the alcoholic or anyone else for that matter into our values, and guides us on to how to understand and work with our Higher Power.
The philosophy of the program, for me, was at first "different" than what I thought I needed to do with, for, or against my alcoholic wife. I came to understand that since the program was working for soooo many members I needed, like Jozie to focus more on what needed guidance and control in myself first than what I was still attempting to do with the alcoholic.
My alcoholic had her own sense of values. She had the affairs and I didn't. When I got into program I met several women who where immediately available and willing (from their side) to engage sexually. I was coming from infidelity and wasn't wanting to participate. I was staying true to my own values (self) so I didn't.
Alcoholism as a disease is all about dysfunction. Alcohol breaks down the mind, body, spirit and emotions. Dysfunction is normal to the alcoholic and everyone they come in contact with. You have a desire that your alcoholic not act in a dysfunctional way and respond positively to your value system inspite of the evidence that he is passive aggressive and when drinking probably also oppositional defiant...he won't follow any reasonable supportive behaviors.
I came to believe in early program that "alcohol exascerbates behavior" and that mean't that what a person would not do when not drinking they would consider and do while under the influence. Today I know that is true...from experience and also as the alcoholic escapes responsiblity for their behaviors the problem gets worse never better. I would suggest that if you changed your expectations to the reality that he has little changed in this short period of time and that unless he has more time and willing effort you will continue to be disappointed and confused.
9 months of meetings doesn't come even close to 16 or more years of practicing alcoholic drinking. Set you boundaries without expectations. Get into the program for yourself and listen and learn what others do to maintain their peace of mind and serenity. If you don't have you, you have nothing.
Glad you found this family. Yours in love and support (((((hugs)))))
From what I understand about boundaries, is that we set them to protect us, to give us a predetermined way to act. You know, if & then. Like, if you drink again, I will stay somewhere else. Or say in my case, if my step-dad was home, I would not visit my mother. If I got uncomfortable with anything, then I would leave (instead of engaging in a destructive way to the relationship).
I realize you need to re build trust, but it sounds like you are using a boundary on him, more than you. Boundaires are for you & they are not a license for us to make requests or demands on anyone else's behavior. It seems to me, that trying to control another person is how we get here.
There is an ancient Zen saying, "To keep your cow close, give them an open field."
In the past, I would sit and watch my A's for their bad behavior (what I deemed bad behvior, it was bad for me) and would be quick to point out when they were screwing up. I have learned this watch dog style of "support" tends to make another feel pressured, stiffled, of course untrustworthy & so on. Those feelings build up & there is a need to rebel.
Naturally these are my opinions, coming from my own experience, you have to determine what works in your life. It took me a very long time around alanon before I took the suggestions & decided to change my strategy.
I'm not exactly sure how I would handle it if I were in your situation. I would certainly let my AH know that obviously trust will have to be built up again & that you are insecure & afraid (if those are your feelings about it). But that's it, really. We all get to work out our own emotions individually. No one can do it for us. I know how desperately you want to reach out & do something for him. For me, my A's got better when I got completely focused on me. I stopped lurking, watching, and actively fearing on their behalf. All that extra tension was just making things worse for me and them.
I know it feels impossible to trust right now but you can trust in yourself & in HP. Take your focus off of him & put it on you where it can do some good. I recently discovered that if I want say, forgiveness, I am more likely to get it if I am forgiving first. Sure, it's a risk but everything is, u know, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Hope this helps, idk but take what u like & leave the rest!
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Hello and thank you all for the great thoughts and suggestions. I went to another Al-alon meeting last night (my 2nd) and came away a little more clear and alot more refreshed. Jerry, you are right on in saying I am expecting my AH to not act in a dysfunctional way and to respond positively to MY value system. But today I can say there is nothing I can do to make him respond to my value system. You are also right in saying 9 months of recovery is but a drop in the bucket after a lifetime of drinking. My biggest disappointment was that his indescretion came AFTER he was sober for several months. I expected that since the alcohol was gone and so was the destruction. I get it today. Last night I heard it summed up well. You can take the alcohol away from the alcoholic but whats left then is the IC!! I didn't realize that would be so. After all, my wildest dreams were for him to stop drinking and that had happened. Why WOULD he address it the same way as I would? He emotionally stunted in so many ways. He can fix that and I will let him. I will start today. Hmmm, boundaries without expectations. What a concept!! But I can do that, just for today. I can!! I will learn as much as I can about how to make ME better and I will ask alot of questions. Thank you for encouraging me. I am headed to another meeting tonight. Kitty, you are right, I can trust me and my God. I deserve and want my life back.Yours in learning, Kathy
) so he was not charged on the felony assault (he spit on a corrections officer). About 4 mo into this program, he starts texting and calling a female AA member from his home group. This goes on for 3 1/2 mo. before I find out about it. They say doing nothing wrong, but all jokes she was sharing with him were sexual in nature and he felt it necessary to hide the goings on from me because I would "freak out". Also, he had an exclusive texting relationship with her. He has never used texting to communicate with me or any of his children. She stopped attending AA (relapse) and texting him out of the blue. My stance is it was an emotional affair and if you have a fragile relationship, why damage it more? Because he's sick, I know. So, I figure out what my bottom line is in all this as he says he wants to work it out. In the 6 wks since I found out I have attended Al-Anon, ( only 3 meetings so far) and doing work with our counselor. What I find (and this is really my question) is that the it seems my Al-Anon messages are conflicting with my boundary issues from my bottom line. For example, until a small amount of trust can be built again, I have requested of my AH to limit his interactions with females to just that of our immediate friends, family and to that of interaction in the classrooms of AA and alcohol counseling programs as needed. One thing that happens is they gather before class, at breaktime and sometimes after class for smoke breaks. He doesn't need to be rude but he doesn't need to be involved, either. He can just say, Hi, how are ya, I'll see you in the classroom. So, Al-Anon says I am controlling more than just myself in that situation as I understand it. I haven't had the courage to tell my story out loud at a meeting yet. Can you please give me some thoughts on this? Thank you for helping.