The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am a 27yr old women with a 5 1/2 month old little girl. My husband is an A and I am suffering from the stress of it all including the stress from my own family. They see that he has a problem and complain to me about it. The catch here is that my husband Nd I live with my mother and step father so we can get on out feet. So, obviously they see and hear everything. I try to keep it all quiet and keep everyone content but sometimes that is difficult. I have recently convinced my husband to get some help and he claims he doesn't have a problem that he is doing this for me and I told him not to if that was the reason. He claims he just wants to learn how to cut back because he enjoys drinking too much. He wants to learn his limit. So, I mentioned going to an Al-Anon meeting and he forbit me. He said if I go then he will be really mad and just go to a bar. I said that was not fair. He didn't care. He called me at work to check up on me. He asked me if I was gonna go at noon and I told him it depended on my work load at that time. He said no don't go and I asked why and he said because I said so. I wanted just one good reason and that was it because I said so. It will make him mad. I also told him that I needed help and he said no I didn't that we just need marriage counseling not self help. I am stuck.
I have thought of seperating but I wouldn't do that because I can not even think about him having my child with out me there. She often Screams constantly with him and I worry about him drinking and driving her somewhere. I also know he will take her to his mother's house and they smoke like crazy at that house. Inside with the children in side. I am not putting my child in harms way. I would rather stay miserable than do that to my baby!
That's a tough one, and it isn't uncommon for alcoholics - particularly those who have not found recovery, to be fearful of others around them getting better. My advice would be that if you think it is safe for you to do so, then meetings will be a huge help for you. Some alcoholics can get very indignant with this issue, even to the point of physical violence, so you need to use your discretion on this. Wth my ex-AW, I didn't have to deal with any physical threat, but she certainly tried her best to discourage me from attending meetings.... Alcoholics can often be pretty paranoid, thinking that these meetings are all about "picking on them", but you have to remember that an active alcoholic focusses on their primary need - to continue to feed their addiction. The thought of you attending meetings, and perhaps no longer being willing to put up with his alcoholism, probably scares him almost as much as the internal fear that he IS an alcoholic, etc....
If you can't see yourself making f2f meetings at this time, I'd encourage you to keep coming back here (this site is great, but it's not as valuable as actual meetings), perhaps join in on the online meetings offered here, and read whatever you can to help YOU right now.
Take care Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thank you for the response. I just can't stop thinking about this. I am tired of worrying and crying over it. I can't believe he told me that he wants to go and drink because of me. I am the reason!! I complain and bi%*@ too much and it pushes him away. Granted I have been fed up with this for a long time but I have stopped and just let things happen. I am tired of this all. I am tired of having no money, I am tired of waking up a 2am looking to see if he is home. I am just simply tired and he thinka nothing has an affect on me! He talks to me like I am his worst enemy. He told me many times today on the phone just to shut my "xxx"mouth and that I was just a "xxx" B. I made it very clear that I was not going to be spoke to that way and hung up. He since has text me apologizing about the language but still says I make him made cause I push all the right buttons. I didn't want to make him mad but when he made it seem like he was my master I was done!
Again thank you!! I am afraid of going to a meeting not because I am afraid of physical abuse but because I don;t want him in a bar spending our money. I guess I just take the money out and put it in another account and not allow him to drive the car. That is all I can think of. He says he can't believe I would go knowing it would make him mad and it shoud be a good enough reason not to go just by him saying he doesn't want me to go.
Ok, you have choices. I understand your fears. There are things you can do to improve your situation. I think the first thing you need to do is to figure out what you want out of life. How do you want to live and how do YOU want to raise your child. It sounds like you are in the throws of the disease and when I was there I had no clue how to do anything other than REACT to what my A was saying/doing. I didn't know I had choices. And when I got to meetings and people told me that I was a little pissed off that they would tell me that!
After all, they had NO idea how bad MY life was...etc.
Anyway, my ex ah was very violently abusive towards the end. He was all sorts of abusive from the beginning but when I started to get better and set and keep boundries, well, he let loose on me.
I will tell you that you did NOT "make" your H do a damn thing. He is a grown up not some pathetic puppet who does things because he is made to. If you had that much power over him as to make him drink or make him angry, then you would "make" him stop drinking. You would "make" him behave in the way you thought fit for a father and an adult. Obviously you do NOT have that much power.None of us does.
The disease of Aism tells us it HAS to be someone's fault...nothing to do with alcohol (or sex, or gambling, or porn or whatever the addicted person is addicted to) it has to do with OTHER people and control. If everyone in the world would simply cooperate with the A and do what they want when they want it then they wouldn't HAVE to drink. Similarly, if the sun wasn't so bright, if it didn't rain at 12:05 pm, if the guy in the car ahead of him didn't have a licence plate that reminded him of the licence plate that his best friend has......whatever.
Ya want to know who's fault his anger and his drinking are? HIS.
I am pasting one of my favourite old jokes about trying to keep an A-happy.... your post reminded me of the egg story, when he is claiming that you are the reason he drinks... truth is, he would blame the fact that you are too bitchy OR nice.... or that you are too skinny OR fat..... or that it's too cold OR hot outside..... or whatever else.... Try not to take it personally....
Tom
Oldie but goody..... The egg story
Hi all... there seems to be a lot of newcomers lately, so I thought I would re-post my favourite joke about "trying to make an alcoholic happy", and how it is an exercise in futility. Enjoy!
One morning, the nice wife wakes up early to make her alcoholic hubby breakfast, and makes him two eggs, sunny side up. He comes to the table, looks at the food, and gets mad, starts ranting about how upset he is, and tells her that he wanted scrambled....
The next day, the good wife wakes up early again, makes her hubby breakfast, and this time makes him two scrambled eggs. She sits back, proud of her decision, only to see hubby sit down at the table, get angry again, and declare that on this day, he wanted his eggs sunny side up!
On day three, she comes up with a great idea, one that she is SURE will please him. She dutifully goes downstairs and makes him breakfast once again, this time ingeniously making him one scrambled and one sunny side up..... She cannot fathom anything except an impending positive result from her efforts. Her hubby comes down to eat, and once again is ranting and angry. She asks, incredulously ' "how can you be angry now.... I made one of each for you!", - to which, the husband replies "you scrambled the wrong egg!".
I think the above joke is both funny, AND very telling. We often beat ourselves up, trying to please our alcoholics..... in many cases, it does not bring about the desired results, and in our own sickness, we shoulder that blame. Hope it brought about a few smiles.
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thank you soo much!!! I just don't know what to do! I don;t know how to start and when he starts with the mean talk I have no amo because he just always says " you are right your are always right...you can never be wrong!" That normally starts it all then the hateful language. He eventually apologizes! I just don't know!
Hi Shell, You came to the right place. You have already been given some good suggestions and I would like to add: Alcoholism is a disease You Did Not Cause It, You Can not Control It and You Cannot Cure it. Come here often and express how you are feeling,and remember you are not alone. Just sharing your fears and anxiety helps. Reading the postings gives you some concrete sugestions how to stay in the day and not project into the future.
A few members at my meetings do not tell their SOs they are going to a meeting due to the stress it causes in the home. They feel alanon enables them to live life with constructive tools instead of the old destructive responses that we have used in the past. They go on lunch hour and they consider this personel and private time and do not share their attendance with family or friends. That is why the program stresses anonymity.
Just let all the talk of alanon die down. Keep coming here and posting and attempting to go the the meetings held here. Use some simple tools like Just for Today I will Try to Live in this day oly and not worry about the future. Try to pray when you are upset or anxious Just a simple prayer will do A man at my meeting says his most powerful prayer is HELP and then he tries to stay calm.
Right now he is making this a power play of Right or Wrong. Disengage take care of yourself here and eventually you will be able to go out on your lunch break without being monitored.
Very good Idea! I want this whole thing to be sooo different! I wish he could be different. He has the potential to be the best husband and dad ever, I guess I need to just reside myself to the fact that he is not going to be any different than he is and just deal with it or get out of the relationship. He doesn;t want to quit drinking he told me that today he just wants to cut back some. I don't know if I can deal with that either.
i will not mention the meetings anymore and just let him think he has gotten the best of me and be submissive. You've been very helpful Thank you
Welcome to MIP... For one thing, your husband should not be permitted to contact you at your JOB to see if you are there, you need some boundry's...You are a grown women, mother, and worker...YOU need to figure out what you want out of this world, and weather you choose to stay with him or go, the dicission is yours to make, just as going to a meeting is yours to make...Your parents raised you, granted you are still at home, but your adult everyday, should be just that.
My Abrother use to call me all the time, and TELL ME, how wonderful I have it and how terrible the world is to him, & How "I know everything and he is just stupid"... It is all apart of their need to control your every move, and make you feel guilty for what THEY are doing wrong. If I were you, I would tell your Ahusband that he is not permitted to call you at work, unless of an emergency, because you can not be stressed all the time at your job...YOU have a choice to answer your cell or not...YOU Push the button... Or Pick it up...
YOU are an adult so there for need to beginning being one for you and your baby...YOU CAN NOT CONTROL what he THINKS, FEELS, DOES, OR DOES NOT DO.... If he goes to the bar when you are at your F2F, then so be it... Let him there, that is not your problem...I understand you don't want him spending your money... Well there is ways around everything in this world...If he can't afford to pay his share of the expenses, then whats he doing there... Child Support will get you what you need in most states if that is the case...The only reason I say this is because, MY Abrother is an Alcoholic, and he lives with his children and "On again Off again" GF... He still has Child Support taking from his check everyweek, because he is not "Responsible Enough" to take care of his kids other wise...If the money came to him his children would never see it, because his money goes to his habits not his family... That is the disease, and that is THEIR DOING Not ours...
Alanon has taught me so much about loving myself, and taking care of me, and just in the couple months since i have been here, I have found a beautiful family in MIP, that support me, help me on my tough days, and shine with me on my good days... WE HAVE A CHOICE...YOU HAVE A CHOICE, and it is souly yours to make...Here you learn how to let your A live with his choices and you live with yours, and if you stick with it you will find peace in your life weather you choose to let him stay or send him off...BUT YOU MUST Take care of you, and if you can't do it for yourself, do it for your baby, because the baby deservese to have a happy loving mom, not a "walking on egg shells mom".
When you find yours in an arguement on the phone, the "End Call" button always works for me, when they realize you are DONE, they will make better efforts next time...If not, then I guess you dont have to worry about him calling you at work...At the meetings, you shut off the phones... All stress goes with it... And the people are the most supportive you will find...They will not smother you or tell you what to do... But they will support you, and be there for you when you need a friend...
On line meetings are great too...The next time you are waiting and wondering were and when he will be home, hook yourself up with an on-line meeting, and if you like, just listen to the other peoples story...No one MAKES you be apart here... You are safe, and we all get how hard this is for you... You need your power of yourself back, and only you can reclaim that...
You have came to the right place, Keep coming back "It works if you work it"... Take what you like and leave the rest, this is just my take, and my thoughts, if don't agree then just keep on going... You will find what you are looking for somewere on this board... I know if saved me and if you give it time, it will help you as well... Get yourself some books that you can read, there are some wonderful al-anon books out there, and if you have to read them on your lunch break then do so... Just take the time, to let yourself live...
That was very up lifting thank you! That all sounds great but it is so hard to take the first step and actually do something. You are right I am trying to look out for my best interest and to me that is my baby girl. I am trying not to think about seperation and divorce because God says to stick together in any situation good or bad if both are believers. I am a Christian and so is he but he is just a drunk along with it. I am doing everything I can. I pray I go to church I also go to a small group on wed night. He joins me and is great while we are there.
I have been a member of the wonderful fellowship of Al-Anon for 5 years now and have seen and heard a lot of things that have helped me stay somewhat sane. Early into the program we were discussing anger at a meeting and a member shared the following and I thought it might be of some help to you.
She said that when the A in her life is calling her names, accusing her of whatever, she simply looks him in the eye and says "You know what? You might just be right I'll have to think about that. And promptly leaves the room, hangs up the phone or whatever is appropriate. This one step accomplishes different things. It gives you some of your power back by taking control in making that statement and it also puts an end to the conversation.
Another one is good for when the blame game starts. Simply reply, "You can blame me for the way you are right now but you have to blame yourself for the way you are from here on out."
I have seen a lot of control freaks in the Al-Anon program but that is nothing compared to a room full of Alcoholics. Not only are they control freaks even in recovery but they are so paranoid it amazes me at times. Those two things are just part of their disease. Our job is to figure out what our part is and how we can go on living regardless of what they do.
When I went to my first meeting they were studying "detachment". I needed to learn what that was and how to go about doing it and I like a lot of others before me thought that meant that I had to not have anything to do with the alcoholic. That is not what it means. You know, IT IS OK TO LOVE AN ALCOHOLIC.
I have posted this link before and will post it again here for you and maybe it just might help you some. It's something you can do from work without fear of the A looking over your shoulder. Just click on the link... http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/
You will also find other subjects that will be helpful to you such as anger.
Keep coming back and when you can go to a f2f meeting. You will find love, support and comfort there that will last you a lifetime.
HUGS
__________________
Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it.
You're here and that's good. You've reached out to others so continue to do that. Power and control by the people who participate in this disease is an expectation. It will happen so don't be surprised when It does and is happening. Threats and blame are just one mechanism the power and control and while some will react and say, "i'll just do this or do that" the reality is still left up to you about how real are the threats and how capable is the person doing the threats. If he has a past with violence (only you will know) you need others around you for support. If he doesn't have a past but has the capability you could tell him seriously that you feel threatened and that a 911 call would bring more people running to aid you. This would take a position of a threat to him mainly because he want's the whole thing secret and within his control and power. The disease of alcoholism runs on this direction so very often. Bargaining and blaming is normal so that the disease can continue to run. "If you do this I will do that" or "I drink because you... or if you didn't do such and such I wouldn't drink or you know all the buttons to push." Since he is already fearful that you might get help I would not withdraw that as a solution for you. You've told him that you need help for yourself and you know that is what you need and will work for you at the same time let him deal with your intention and with the idea that you will or do have an army of people to support and care for you. Al-Anon is world wide and while the program won't follow you around like the Verizon hoard it is a formidable system of support. He is powerless over Al-Anon and now loosing power over you. He keeps trying to exercise power and control over you partly to learn how much he has left. Believe me when a spouse of an alcoholic opens up that they are getting help from others the alcoholic will make adjustments for themselves also.
Only you know the potential for harm and violence and you also know that you are not alone any longer. Keep reaching out to Al-Anon for help and understand even if he doesn't that there are more people and even more negative consequences for him when he threatens and you take him seriously.
When the spouse of an alcoholic makes changes to their participation in the disease...the alcoholic must change also. The rest is turned over to God.
If you go to an Al-Anon meeting he will go to the bar !!! so what will be different ?
Perhaps u can find a meeting durring the day if not I hope u find the courage to go to a meeting anyway , by going to meetings u are finally admiting tht there is a problem which he isn't ready to do yet . your not helping him keep the secret . Try explaining to him that his drinking is causing YOU a problem and that is why your going to the prog . I am sure u have been told that your the one with the problelm :) he just may accept that . U need support from people who understand what your going thru who u can call on a bad day or go for coffee with and talk things out . we don't have to do this alone . There is no point in trying to make your husb see the *light* he just isn't interested at the moment what matters is that you have . good luck take care of you and your needs he will adjust to your going to meetings eventually . Louise
You have received so many good insights here; I just hope you will respect yourself enough o get alanon help. It isn't about him; it is to help you cope and make right decisions. (((Shell)))
Shell, His fear and ability to manipulate and threaten you is speaking via his disease. Otherwise, why would someone that cares about you not want you to get help for your well being? Normally, like someone said, it is a test of how far he can go. How much control does he have? What's he going to say to his parents if he leaves....he left because you wanted help from Alanon against his disease? He's afraid and that's the truth. Try to take a step back and look at this like you aren't the one involved. Read your first post like someone else wrote it. You will see what he is doing.
Almost every single thing he said is something I lived for 20 yrs. And all of it is typical alcoholic banter B.S. *he claims he doesn't have a problem (typical denial) *He claims he just wants to learn how to cut back (very unlikely) *he enjoys drinking (heard it a gazillion times) *He wants to learn his limit. (there is none with an alcoholic) *He said if I go then he will be really mad and just go to a bar. (He will and has been going anyway) *He called me at work to check up on me (manipulation and control) *he said because I said so (and?) *It will make him mad. (and?)
* I am stuck. No! You are absolutely not stuck. You have a choice. Live like you are and watch the disease progress and worsen, while the manipulation and control escalates. OR Make the decision that YOU have to be healthy for your owm mental state and for your daughter's too. A decision that you will learn to set healthy boundaries, trust your own instincts and be in control of your surroundings.
If you hear nothing else I'm saying, please hear this: For every inch you give in and allow manipulation and control, you let go (and lose) of yourself, it worsens to the point that you have no idea who you are, what makes you happy or what you like to do. Everything will be controlled by alcoholism eventually until it consumes one of you. It does and it will.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. This program is all about you girl! This life is all about you! When you go to Alanon and learn the tools of the program it promotes a happier and healthier you. That is what I believe your HP intends for you. It spreads to every one around you. It allows you to show your child the very best of you. With the tools, it is comforting knowing what the program suggests in situations. At least you'll have some knowledge instead of the constant fear of not knowing what to do.
I don't want to start a fire storm about cleaving to your man no matter what if this is your reason for hesitation..but the good book was translated for the first time hundreds of yrs A.D.. They were left to the interpretation of the writer, some things were put in, some left out, sometimes even translated from or to another language..which can change the meaning of what was intended. I'll just leave those facts with you.
I think you have recieved so many responses not only because this is what we do for our brothers and sisters in program, but because we see where we used to be in you and know that feeling of confusion and despair. There's hope and there is help. All you have to do is reach out and the hand of Alanon will be there for you. You see what has happened here. Imagine what a meeting must be like :)
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Once I heard that I didn't cause it, I didn't control it and I couldn't cure it I was empowered to ask for more.
I didn't realize I had choices, I found that I did.
I didn't realize how much it was affecting me and my loved ones, there is no such thing as keeping it a secret.
I had forgotten what it felt like to feel good, these meetings taught me where to start.
I had become sick and tired of being sick and tired and had to reach out for help before it took all of our lives.
I had no clue what the difference between enabling the drinker meant, this program was able to help me stop enabling by making excuses for their actions and behavior.
I had forgotten what it felt like to not feel responsible for another persons life, this program reminded me I was only responsible for myself and my young children.
I was terrified to call 911 pretending verbal abuse was better then physical abuse, sadly I learned the scars of one heals more quickly.
I came to realize I didn't owe anyone a reason to maintain my sanity, I was worth it.
I had abandoned all of my friends to remain controlled for so long, what a pleasant surprise to be able to have and express true emotions and feelings with another Al-anon member.
I felt I didn't deserve better then the life I was leading, with this program I learned for forgive myself for all the mistakes I had made in the past and come to realize I am one of my HP's children just like you are.
Please keep coming back, you are worth it borrow our strength until you can find the courage to own your own.
Keep coming back, you belong and are more than welcome!
Thank you all sooooo much for your help and support! Well, he didn't come home last night and I haven't spoke to him today either. He made it very clear the last time we spoke that I am the only one that thinks he has a problem. His family thinks there is nothing wrong. So its like I am fighting a losing battle. He spoke to me horribly so I told him not to worry about coming home or using my car either. Oh, just got a text and he needs my car tonight for date night with his 7yr old daughter...I just said "just wondering when you plan on spending any time with your other daughter!" He has seen our 5 1/2 month old for a total of 2 hours since Wed. of last week. Pathetic!!! He thinks I am being crazy by not going off and doing things because I need to be at home with Gracie the baby. I keep telling him that she needs a schedule. If her bed time is at 7 o'clock then I need to be home then. It is not fair to her to be out until 9 or 10. We do go against that on Wed nights when we are out until about 8:30. And on weekends we do stay out and just bring her stuff to go to sleep. It normally doesn't work because honestly I think she can sense that she is not at home and she just fusses the entire time. So, for that reason I like to be at home with her. He just can't get that through his thick head.
Food for thought, although you've gotten so much wonderful wisdom already: I have consistently heard when a person in AA tells their story how greatful they are now that their spouse went to Al Anon. At the time, they were angry, frightened and did all the things you're describing. But because the person in al anon was taking care of themselves, the person in AA has to deal with themselves. I also think it might be worthwile to stop trying to hide this stuff from your parents. You need the energy your using to cover up the obvious. Enlist them in helping you--like maybe they could watch your daughter. they could also benefit from al anon too. This is effecting them, too. As some people also said, you don't have to tell your husband that you're going. If telling him is creating the problems, why tell him? I mean, it seems like it would be counterintuitive: the truth shall set you free, right? Well, having been there myself, it actually doesn't work that way. By telling the alcholic the truth, I gave him ammo to use to hurt me. I realize that I am suggesting lying by omission--however, until I was healthy enough to be assertive about my boundries and not be frightened of my alcholic's anger and threats, this is what i did to get toward recovery. I know also of women who used their al anon meetings to go grocery shopping, run house hold errands, etc. one woman came here, and we set her up with a scedule so that she had an al anon meeting conveniently next door to every place that she had an errand--like the library next door to the pharmacy; the church next door to the dry cleaniers; etc. She wasn't technically lying that she was running errands. She just was leaving out that one of her errands was al anon
Hi Shell, Tiger added some very good food for thought.
If I understand your most recent response:
He did not come home last night, he lives with YOUR parents, he texted this AM that he needs YOUR car for a visit with his other daughter.
You are employed outside the home and believe it is important to spend time with your daughter He spends litttle time with this daughter. You believe your 5 month old requires a set schedule and he believes you ae foolish and should be going out at night . The pattern is familiar.
You are right!!! You do need to take care of your daughter and set your priorities around her That is the reason you need to take care of yourself and take the actions you know are right for you and your daughter. His opinion on how to be a mother has no importance. Do what you feel is right for your child and you and keep coming back. Although you cannot see it now you hold all the cards in this situation and alanon will help you to use them to build a better life.
Yall are just great!! I love being told that I am actually making the right decisions. He is always telling me that I am making excuses not to go off with him. He is mad that I don't pay any attention to him when the baby is around. I know that she needs her parents and I think it is a normal family life for both parents to work come home eat dinner spend time together and then sleep. Now, there is nothing wrong with getting a babysitter every now and then but I am not ok with it being once a week or even every two weeks. I will not ask my mom to babysit on weekends. She watches her during the day while we both work and she is wonderful...she works too. Mom is a my super woman!! So...no I am not going to ask her to keep her anymore than she already does. Now, my mother in law is good with children but does not know my daughter well. Gracie is a fussy baby with reflux and just a really bad tummy. she is getting better but the in-law is unfamiliar with the ways to calm Gracie. She will not do what I tell her to help soothe Gracie. On top of all of that she smokes in her house and she will smoke like 3 packs aday. I am not willing to put my child in that atmosphere. I will not pay a babysitter because the money is not there to spend because he the AH has already spent it all or I am paying down hospital bills still or some debt that is very behind. he thinks it is ok to go and spend all kinds of money when we can't even live on our own. No, I am not going to a concert when we should be saving money. My parents look at us like WHAT!!!! We pay them $75 a month. That is all she has asked for so we can get ahead and he wants to go crazy with spending. He thinks that I am being a party pooper! I am just grown up I guess and how could I have read him and our situation so wrong? I ask myself that question all the time. The problem is that i love him soooo much or here is another question....Am i inlove with the man I know he could possible be? Is that the man I am not willing to give up. the one that is soooo wonderful on the great days?
You have gotten some awesome ES&H here. I didn't notice if anyone posted the online meeting times, but here they are just in case:
Al-Anon Meetings on Schedule Current meeting times for Al-Anon Group. All Times Are Eastern. * Al-Anon (Mornings) Mon., Tues., Wed., Thur., Fri. 9:00AM (Nitely Meetings) Mon.-Sat. 9:00PM Sun. 7:00PM All times are Eastern Standard Time -1 hour for central time -2 hours for mountian time -3 hours for pacific time +17 hours for Sidney Australia
The online meetings are great, especially if you can't make it to f2f meetings on a regular basis.
Hi Shell I believe you hit on a great awareness. I know I was in love with the person I knew they could be, the one that appears now and then and I was in Love withthe idea of Love.
You are dealing with a powerful deadly disease that will destroy all that is good and fine in its wake. You cannot argue with it, reason with it or cure it.
The most effective tool to deal with this disease is : AA for the alcoholic and alanon for all family members. People have shared what their lives were like before and how their lives are now. AlAnon takes the focus off the alcoholic and teaches us to focus on ourselves in constructive ways. Slogans Like:
First Things First ( Child, job, bills) you have them in your priority list Keep them there regardless of what the disease days or does.
Act do not React. This disease loves to engage in game playing and power plays Do not enage. Like someone suggested just simply say I will think about it and walk away.
Pray for guidance each day, and try to Live a day at a time.
Meetings and the literature are really helpful so I hope you decide to take that step to freedom You and your daughter are so worth it
You can't control his drinking by not going to al-anon mtgs, like he says. I mean, what the A does, is blame others for his using.
It is so ridiculous, like we are actually pouring the alcohol down the holes in their heads. In spite of the fact that they are actually doing what they do - they try to convince others that they are out of control b/c u are doing it to them. But don't try to pigeon hole them with logic and actually point out what they are saying - they will say "no" denial is what they do.
My exAH didn't want me to go to Al-Anon either. He was scared to death I would talk about HIM! haha, they are so delusional AND they do not want u to change. They have worked very hard to get their enablers just where they want them. They want it to be easy to use and not exp any flack over it. Truth is, they are riddled with self-hatered and self loathing. It becomes a vicous cycle of blaming you, so they can not take responsiblity for using.
As if any of us would willingly inflict harm on our loved ones by forcing drugs and alcohol down their bodies.
Besides, he already made it clear that he 'wanted to learn to drink moderatly' so right there he has given himself a permanent "out" or excuse to drink ~ therefore relieving you of the false responsiblity of HIS actions.
With that being said, if u can get to meetings - great - get as many pamphlets as u can and study up. Or go to online meetings whenever u can, they are effective as well. You can also go to the chat room 24/7 and talk to anohter person live.
Some ppl have to lie to their A's about going to mtgs. Some A's do become violent. It is a progressive disease, u will see plateaus in behavior but it gets worse. You have to figure out what u can do to help yourself - besides, who doesn't like "self-help" at least it's free! for me it was learning self preservation and love of self - something I never had b4 ~ no, I loved others to the extreme deterioration of myself. And guess what, all of my sacrificing didn't help others and it certainly did NOT help me.
He is controlling you through manipulation. Learn how to not enable his disease anymore, you have yourself and ur child to think of. Do not focus on whether he drinks or not, learn to focus on YOU and what you can do to empower yourself today.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
I've certainly been there the constant arguments, the recriminations, the obsessing about his behavior. Do you have to tell him you are going to al anon? I mean if you are going at lunch time how will he know?
The ex A I was with for 7 years went out of his way to isolate me. He loved it when I had no one. He really got a lot of power when I had no where to go.
There are lots of ways to "do" al anon this board is one of them. Please don't tell him about the board. You do not want him reading your posts. You can keep some things from him.
There are many of us who have been where you are now. We are not anymore. Al anon helped a lot. Stop arguing with him and focus on yourself and the baby.
I'm new too and have not attended a meeting yet. I did however relate to your situation. I was married for 25 years to a controlling verbally abusive man. I stayed with him because of my Christian beliefs. Eventually the marraige ended when he had an affair. My children are very angry with me for not getting out of this relationship sooner. I look back at myself and wonder why I didn't have the strength to put myself and my children first. If I learned one thing from this is to set normal boundaries. You and your daughter should not except crumbs. You should get the whole cake. Your not asking for anything unreasonable. Pray and ask God to give you wisdom. We are not suppose to be door mats. Don't be afraid of change. It can go either way. You might get the marraige you desire or you might have to walk away. But either way, you will learn how to love yourself.
I can't thank all of you for your wonderful advice. I now do see that I really am focused on him and not myself. I woder if he has been drinking when he gets home. I try to get close enough to see if I can smell it on his breath and if I do I get all worked up. I just can't believe he is drinking after he says he is going to AA. He is driving my car! If he gets a DUI then it is my car that is taken away for 30 days and it leaves me with no transportation. these are the things I think of! I worry night after night when he is gone. If it is not bad enough having to get up all night with the baby I also don't sleep b/c of worry. I need to learn how to almost not care if he drinks or not but it is my money that is being spent. Well, partly my money when he has spent all of his then mine starts going too. But it is my car that he is using. I worry if he is leaving empty bottles around the house for my mother and step father to find. That is not what I need then I get yelled at for his lack of respect to clean up after himself. And normally it is beer that my parents have bought to have for themselves and their friends on occasion.
I am going to do my best to let go of what I can't control. It will take awhile but I will try :)
You have taken the first big step by coming here and sharing and listening. Yes it will take time but small baby steps each day is how the program works.
Your awareness of where you mind is most of the time is huge. We have all been there. That is the reason one of alanon's basic tools is FOCUS ON Yourself.
When you feel your mind going to what he is doing or protecting him from your parents, simply repeat the serenity prayer over and over until your mind is back on what you need to do for yourself.
One big thing that I feel is important to look at in focusing on yourself is:
The shared use of the car. It is in your name. If he gets a DUI You will loss your transportation, not to mention the fines and increased insurance costs. Try to come up with some alternate plan so that you are safe in this respect.
yes, the car is mine. I am doing my best to get him a car. We are using my tax return to purchase another car. I know that he should be buying the car but it is worth my piece of mind to go ahead and get him one. Thank you
It sounds like opening your own checking account would solve a lot of problems. He can't get to your money and you can save.
Does he work? Reality is, he wants a car but chooses to drink the money heshould be saving. HIS CHOICE. What if he got drunk and injured (or killed) someone with the car you bought him? You will have chosen to allow it.
Alcoholics are much like children and have to be treated like children sometimes..with boundaries along with respect. Would you do this for your child if your child had an addiction? Would you buy them a car or let them use yours knowing they may very well drink and drive, hurt someone, hurt themselves? Would you reward them with a car for bad behavior?
His not coming home is another attempt at manipulation. You are supposed to be so afraid he will leave that you cave in to his demands. Not unlike a spoiled child that up to this point has gotten his way.
Saying that YOU are the only one that thinks he has a problem is nothing more then more psychological manipulation. You are supposed to doubt yourself and feel intimidated. You are supposed to think everyone agrees with him and thinks you are wrong and mean. You are supposed to back off and let him drink at will.
Your tax return may serve you and your daughter better by saving it in case he does get himself in trouble so you have a monetary safety net.
As far as him leaving bottles laying around the house..Your parents buy it, it is their house and their beer. You might explain to them that everyone needs to make him responsible for his actions at this point and their support is needed at this time. That would mean if they are buying it and get upset that he leaves the bottles laying around, it is really up to them to tell him he may not drink their beer. Evidently he's been getting away with it. Telling you does nothing. Talking directly to him and making their rules known is much healthier for everyone. It seems everyone is tip toeing on egg shells around him and his disease, getting him what he wants and allowing him to do what he wants. This is OUR sickness. Allowing it!
He wants to borrow your car for date night with his daughter? Will he be drinking then too?
child + car + alcohol --------- =a big Hell no!!
Alanon is not unlike Tough Love in many aspects. You can't be intimidated or afraid to say NO to a child or they will walk all over you. Standing behind your boundaries and not wavering is the only thing they understand. Only I think kids understand it quicker then alcoholics! But they both throw fits about the same way.
Keep coming back, Christy
-- Edited by Christy at 03:17, 2009-03-12
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Thank you for sharing your story with us. A lot of what you've said sounds like my AH.
He says he'll go to AA for ME and not for himself. He decides that he DOESN'T have a drinking problem, therefore AA is a useless program full of pathetic self-loathing whiners. On some occasions when he gets mad at me, he decides he's going to drink *at* me. (which is just silly) He attempts to call the shots if he's feeling threatened at all by my Al-Anon program.
This disease is cunning, baffling and insidious. And, I do NOT want to take hope away from you if your AH ever does decide to join AA for himself, but even if he does join AA, it still won't be a walk in the park. I have learned in my short year and three months of being in the Al-Anon program that the drinking is just a symptom of the disease of alcoholism. If it's not the drinking then it'll be the thinking.
I'm glad you sought help. I strongly suggest as soon as something else has caught your AH's attention, that you start making it to some Al-Anon meetings. Recovery cannot happen in isolation. And I find the physical presence of other Al-Anon members to be one of the most powerful, reassuring things there is. (Plus I get to get hugs and hear laughter!)
