The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Sharing about religion and not saying it is part of program? I'm totally cool with that. Hell, share about whatever you want if it's how you relate to your program. If your gonna say your specific religion is part of the 12 step, you would be wrong, and I can see I would have a problem with that, but give me a break people. Ok so I found myself at a business meeting wondering just how much program do these people have? Hmm I thought. 3 things came to mind... Are you working your program or someone elses? Take what you want and leave the rest. and 3 ... If your afraid a newcomer might get the wrong Idea, express how you feel in your share, it's got nothing to do with you people! Let people speak about "there experiences". they arent yours! back off I say. Try working your own program for a change and stop trying to control all the things around you, and try working on taking care of yourself. P.S. for all you people who are new to this, if it irritates you, your the one with the problem, ha. Peace
"Ok so I found myself at a business meeting wondering just how much program do these people have?"
That is precisely why the Al-Anon guidelines exist, and exactly why the program works for so many people. It is inclusive of all. Whether they have program oozing out of their pores or are just beginning to feel the wisdom and love available.
I was very close to leaving and never returning to a group I attended early on in my recovery because of a remark one person made about being a "recovering Catholic". Seems like a non issue to me now, but at the time it truly offended me and more importantly it closed my mind to anything the person said after that...and worse everything that was said after her share was over.
Did that make me the one with the problem? Absolutely! I was going then and continue going now because I am the one with the problem. How did I get the problem? Because I have been affected by the family disease of alcoholism. My HP guided me to this program to become who He desires for me to be.
Would it have worked for me if in those early days of recovery, I had heard about everyone's religious beliefs? If they talked about their sexual preferences? If they talked about their political beliefs?
Absolutely not. I had been to church. It didn't help me with My Problem. It worked for me because I was fortunate to have a home group that adhered closely to the principal of "Al-Anon spoken here" during meetings. For that I am eternally grateful.
Controversy. I had enough of that at home, why would I want to go sit with a group of people for more of that?
Unity. That is what the guidelines are all about. They are time tested and proven to work. They don't work for all, because not everyone can commit themselves to it (the program). It works if you work it. It works in the way it was given to the world.
I was restoring an old car once. I had the automatic transmission out and wanted to make sure it was in good condition before I put it back in the car, while it was easily accessible. I was putting a new gasket on the pan and Dad walked up and asked why I was doing that, was it leaking before. No, I said, just doing perventative maintenance.
His words weren't original but he said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I "fixed" it anyway, put it back in the car and of course, from that point on it leaked!
Thanks for your post and welcome to Miracles in Progress,
I think most of us know there is a huge difference between the dogma of religion and the all encompasing idea of spirituality. When I first came here I had issues with God, with religion, with the idea that there is a higher power, but as I have watched the power of prayer work and seen miracles unfold before my eyes I have been forced to grab onto that and hold it tight. I have found my spirituality, day by day my idea of what that means changes. I believe there is a power greater than myself whether it be god, or cosmic energy, what have you... I think specific religion divides but we can almost all agree that there is something out there, something greater than ourselves, something we must rely on faith to believe in, it guides us and provides cues to direct our lives, it inserts the right people at the right time or the right opportunity. Call it whatever you like, I know in my heart that we are all truly in agreement we just call it by different names.
I was raised in church and went every Sunday. After marriage to my EXAH I gave up on HP (who to me is God). Didn't trust Him, His will for me and figured somewhere along the lines I must have REALLY ticked Him off to deserve this life I had. It was not until this program that I really learned what my HP is and actually FELT Him in my life and by my side on a daily basis. Whatever you call it,,,,,,,,it works if you work it:) keeping it simple...... shellyj
__________________
Put down the magnifying glass and pick up the mirror!
Religion on the message board should be okay. John F., the owner of MIP, recently posted the following:
At the top of this message board it clearly states
"The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.
This is simply a message board that is used by members of Al-Anon. It is not a Al-Anon meeting. If they wish to share recipes, celebrate the birth of a child, exchange medical remedies, ask questions about legal matters, etc, it can be done here and we should not be holding anyones shares hostage simply because they don't fit nicely inside a rigid meeting format. That is the same mentality we are seeing change in this nation. Thank God!
As for meetings, he posted the following:
Many f2f groups are not WSO registered. They are still "meetings" that adhere to a meeting format. This board, I will state again is not a meeting and does not fall under the format of a meeting because it isn't one. What we hold in the room at scheduled times each day is Al-Anon meetings, which adhere to the standard format of meetings all over the world. So, where you get the assumptive idea that they are general recovery meetings, is squarely on you.
I take it from that post, that Al-Anon steps and traditions are to be adhered to in MIP meetings. In my home group meeting, the group conscience asks that we refrain from discussing a particular religion during the meeting. General religious principles as they apply to the steps and traditions are appropriate in my home group meeting. I do not know if the MIP meeting has taken a group conscience on this issue.
Yours in recovery,
SLS
__________________
Do not be anxious about tomorrow; tomorrow will look after itself. The Bible, from Courage to Change, p.138
IMO, people can say or believe in anything they want..whether it be people in Alanon or on the street. My boundary is in place for those who attempt to convice me my beliefs are wrong or sway me to believe in their specific religion. Then it becomes personal. When that happens "talk to the hand." Otherwise...believe whatever gives your spirit peace.
Christy
-- Edited by Christy at 13:06, 2009-02-06
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
thanks for your reply it is really appreciated to get some imput that is not an argument or opinion, I appreciate it. Group conscience is a good point. Is it the online group conscince to not talk about it, or is it just that some people have stronger opinions about it and wish to put their voice over others... who knows for now, I'll ask for a group conscience..whatever comes of it I will let it roll either way. Thanks
Yes christy, boundaries is a great point too. If you think it has to do with you, what someone else is saying, then ya might want to look at yourself. A lot of people in 12 step are done with others telling them what to do... Myself included, I'm learning how to stay out of others stuff, and in only mine. Thanks for your post
I am wary of anyone who seems to be using the rooms of Alanon (or AA) for anything outside our primary purpose of recovery. I've seen people who seem to be recruiting others to their religion, or to their services either as a therapist or just business in general... like selling herbal remedies. While I tolerate these people, I don't really take them seriously.
I've seen people with long term sobriety who want to use the fellowship of AA as a "captive audience" for whatever they are selling. Whether in an actual meeting, or just within the context of hanging out in the fellowship. That's not to say business isn't done one to one between members, it happens all the time and it's perfectly legitimate. But if I hire a guy I know from AA to paint my house, that's different from him getting up and promoting himself to the group at large.
Like I say, it happens... and I usually write off the people who do it. I understand the need to make a living but when in the context of program, our primary purpose is.. well, primary. I got a good example of the difference. A guy I knew in AA had one of those "ask me how" stickers on his car. A couple times just hanging out I had gotten the herbal pitch from him. I didn't think much of it... the guy had long term sobriety, and he was a friend otherwise. I just ignored his little pitch and changed the subject. Well one time I was seeking a speaker for a meeting I was in charge of and I approached him about speaking at my meeting. His face fell... "Oh, I thought you were gonna ask me how to lose weight..." and subsequently flat out refused to speak at my meeting.
That to me is an example of priorities out of line. Religion, herbs, whatever... this guy - to quote my late sponsor, "ain't got nuttin I want". He's free to do what he likes but I take my program more seriously than that. I don't say no to a speaking offer without a good reason, and not buying herbs isn't a very good reason. I don't think I've spoken to him since.
After a while true acceptance arrives and becomes apart of who you are naturally. At that point you come to understand "Principles before personalities". For me the principles are always greater than personalities and acceptance allows fear to disappear.
Love is the complete and total acceptance of any (every) other human being for exactly who they are." Al-Anon gift sometime around 1982-83.
"Love is the absense of fear and fear the absence of love. HP lesson latter part of 2007.
If your gonna say your specific religion is part of the 12 step, you would be wrong, and I can see I would have a problem with that, but give me a break people. Ok so I found myself at a business meeting wondering just how much program do these people have? Hmm I thought. 3 things came to mind... Are you working your program or someone elses? Try working your own program for a change and stop trying to control all the things around you, and try working on taking care of yourself. P.S. for all you people who are new to this, if it irritates you, your the one with the problem, ha. Peace
Hello Chidlid6, Perhaps you need to trust yourself more because you sort of solved your own problem and gave yourself your own answer at the end, LOL "if it irritates you, YOUR the one with the problem".
David62 put it very kindly as he always does, people are at different levels of recovery and also, I might add, different levels of mental and emotional health and social skills, yet there is room for ALL in alanon.
You state that you wonder if people are working their own program or someone else's...right after complaining about wondering how much program people actually do have after hearing them speak! Take your own advice "take what you like and leave the rest", and your own wise words which YOU YOURSELF should take to heart "Try working your own program for a change and stop trying to control all of the things around you".
I find this is very common in alanon, people have learned not to trust their own instincts, yet, in their heart, have the wisdom to know what they need to do to take care of themselves.
You are very wise my friend to have answered your own dilemas and puzzlements so precisely in your own post!
Keep on doing what you are doing, only focus on your own program and take to heart your advice to take what you like and leave the rest, and you will continue to be successful.
