Do you really have to believe that it is a disease to belong to Alanon?

If you are helped by the program and you have been able to be helpful to others (which I know you have) in the program and you have been affected by anothers drinking then you do belong here.

I have always believed that people are born with addictions. That is why they are inherited. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain. They do not have the same brain chemistry as a normal person. That goes for any addiction...I believe. I think that the brain does not produce enough seratonin and other things like beta endorphins. Seratonin is the "JUST SAY NO" chemical and if it is lacking than you have faulty brain chemistry. Of course, after years of this other problems develop. One of the things I have noticed about A's is that when they do get sober they usually switch to something else like overeating, gambling etc. I know my A son has gone crazy on sugar since he stopped alcohol. Don't get me wrong...I still think that AA is very important and that the 12 steps are wonderful for just about anyone but I do believe that it all starts with the physical aspect.

I would hope you would changeyour mind and stay here with us. You would be surely missed.

Gail

My friend,

Only requirement I know of is to be affected by someone else's drinking.  Which I have no doubt you have been.  And to be honest, lots of folks who come to and grow in al-anon don't even have that.  We have folks whose "qualifiers" are gamblers, sex addicts, over eaters, etc, etc, etc.

What tenants of al-anon do you have a problem with?

Is it that you can't control other human beings thoughts and actions?
Is it that you are worth your own love and consideration?
Is it that you don't believe a Higher Power than you exists?
Is it because you don't think living around people who drink too much has not affected the way you act or feel?

And I could go on and on my friend.

One of those slogans (and boy I hated slogans when I got here) is "Take what you like and leave the rest".

I apply that to all facets of my life now.  And it has broadened my knowledge and spirituality enormously!  I can go to church now and get so much from it, because I don't focus on the differences in the beliefs between me and the church, but rather I can listen with an open mind, learn, disagree if I do, and become more.

But my friend, I am not here to beg you to stay....but I certainly would miss your presence here.  While I don't always agree with what you have to say, it is always thought provoking for me.  I love the way you cut to the chase on so many things.

Another thing I have heard around here (paraphrased) is give al-anon a try, if it doesn't work for you we will gladly refund your misery.

Anyway my dear friend.  It has been awesome having you as a member of my family, and you will continue to be here in my heart whether you post on this board any more or not! 

Alcoholism as a disease?  Are you an alcoholic?  I don't think so, so what does it matter?  If I don't accept cancer as a disease, but as a moral choice, it doesn't change that fact that people die from it.  Whether or not you believe alcoholism is a disease doesn't change that fact that people die from drinking.  That lives are ruined from drinking.  That relationships end.  And it certainly doesn't change that fact that I became totally obsessed with trying to make someone stop drinking.

Call it what you want to or not, when it applies to them.

What applies to me is al-anon's principals show ME how to live my life with more sanity and serenity.  I don't live with an alcoholic...or with someone who I think drinks too much anymore.  Don't have anyone close to me in my life who does, on a day to day basis.  Yet I come.

I come for me, and I come for those who will come and who still come, so that there will be a place like the one that was here for me.

Love you my dear ((((Diva))))

Yours Still in Recovery,
David

I have always read what you have to say and greatly respect you. Thank your for caring for me and addressing me personally all those times when I needed it so much. You had an impression, an impact on my life.

One of the reasons my EXDIL divorced my son is that she did not, could not accept that alcoholism is a disease. She adamantly preached to me that he made a moral choice. Even my son does not accept that he has a disease. So you certainly have the right to believe this yourself. I think this is a common belief and will continue to be a controversial aspect of the study of alcoholism. Perhaps one day someone will prove one way or another and find some key to unlocking the mystery of why, who, how, and especially, why my family.

Take great care of yourself and I will miss you.

I, too, have struggled with the word, perhaps even more so in reference to codependency. (I also don't like "character defects" much either.) But, I get so used to hearing 'em, that I use 'em.

My personal choice is to think of it as "dis-ease," and I am referring to spiritual and emotional health, although the body becomes affected over time. I also think of it as a "behavior pattern" in us. I guess if we were in perfect acceptance all the time, with the ability to align our will with HP and reality as it is... we wouldn't be at dis-ease. (And that wouldn't lead some of us to reach for any type of drug.) Since we are only human, and we (our behavior patterns) aren't perfect, it's just not possible to be free from dis-ease. So my understanding is, this becomes a condition where we must continually be aligning ourselves with our Higher Power, to free us from our dis-ease.

As for alcoholism, I just accept that I don't know if it truly is a "disease" or not. Just for today, it doesn't matter to me.

For me, the English language is perhaps incapable of expressing the true condition in one word. I simply believe that there is something "present" in this widespread dis-ease, that only a Power greater than ourselves can cure. What a blow to our egos! And THAT would make it a perfect divine plan, I guess. (I say that with my fist shaking at my HP, but it's ok, he can take it. LOL) That's just where I'm at, just for today.

I sincerely wish you love, peace and wellness on your road to happy destiny ((((Diva))))

Diva, I know the disease part has not set well with you. I have enjoyed your reactions to our stumbling through life. I love to see the becon you have to spot nonsense. Best wishes -- Jill

(((((Diva))))),

That old saying: "Take what you like and leave the rest" certainly applies here.  There are certain tennants that I may not ascribe too.  They just don't fit in with my way of thinking. But when I consider what the rest of the program has done for me, it's become invaluable.  Now some would say because I no longer have an addict in my life, that I no longer need this place.  I find that quite untrue.  Yes, my life is very different with the loss of my beloved hubby.  At the same time it is healing to come here to offer my perspective on things.  It has helped with work situations.

Just because you don't believe that it's a disease, doesn't bother me in the least.  Your perspective on things has been invaluable to me as well as others.  I know I would miss you kicking me in the you-know-what when I needed it. I hope you will reconsider.  Much love and blessings to you and your family.  Love to the animals too.

Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty (who would miss sweet Diva very much too!)

Thank goodness, Diva. I came here this morning hoping to see your name in this place once more. I am very very in sync with your "garden path" thing. I, too, quit coming here for several months. I got on some kind of thought pattern where I just thought "what's the use". I came back. So glad you are here.

Diva, u r all right by me no matter what flavor you show up in. Bring whatever you want to the table or nothin' at all. U r always welcome here. This place is about love, acceptance and inclusion. Not exclusion, rejections or judgement. You can be as crabby as you want. heck, I am sometimes! hugs, J.

Diva:

I always enjoy reading your posts. You add a little 'spice' to this message board, which I like. As of the others have expressed, you'd be missed if you decide to leave. Gail