Very good post.  I truly believe that we do end up sicker then them.  Although we are sick at the time, we are making choices to stay, to bail them out, to take the abuse.  But it is because we just don't know any better at the time.  The funny thing, in our sickness, all the "bad" stuff that they do disapates in our brain somewhere.  Slowly it starts to fade and all we remeber in the moment is the "good" parts.  They also play on our guilt and insecurities, thinking we will do or have no better if we leave them.  And we also have the "disease" part to deal with.  A normal person that would treat us this bad, we would tell to go take a hike in a second.  But the A in our life has a problem.  In our sick heads, we start to think, "well, he doesn't really mean it - he is sick".  That's not really the true him talking, the one that I know loves me.  It becomes very twisted.   

..."what did I ever do that is so bad to make you mad at me?" are you realy that dumb? That far lost into your lies?

The answer is yes..I really do believe at the time they do believe how they think is right.  And when they do something good, such as not drinking or whatever, they think that everything in the past is automactically erased.  Was there a start over button somewhere I missed???  They only look after number one.   And they sure as heck don't want to take a good real picture of themselves for what they are really doing and saying.  That would mean they would have to take some responsibility. 

Someone give me a good reason as we continue to stay in a "less than perfect" relationship?

Because we are sicker than they are.  And until we learn, we really don't know any better.  We face guilt and fear of what will happen if we leave.   

Why can't I stop loving him?

Because we are caring, loving creatures.  We see the problems, think we can help, remember the loving times that they give us, the good times, they make us feel like they are the best thing since sliced bread.  

Who really has the problem?

We both do.  There in there disease and so are we.  The question is...they will keep doing what they do....how will we change?  What will we do?

(((((Soconfused)))),

Welcome to the MIP family.  Here you will find great experience, hope, strength, wisdom and humor (good for the ).  We come to Alanon because we are in our own way sick.  We are codependents.  They have the disease called addiction.  It has affected our lives in ways we can barely understand.  Alanon will show you how to take back your life.  None of this is your fault by the way.  He has a disease and it has impacted your life.  You didn't cause it.  You can't control it.  You can't cure it. Having said that you can control your recovery. You can break that cycle of codependency.

Your recovery is about you and for you, regardless if the A chooses sobriety or not.  It's about taking back your life and living the life you so richly deserve.  It's about living strong. 

I strongly urge you to find some local face to face meetings. Learn as much as you can about addiction and how it has affected you and your family.  This is very much a family disease.  You will realize that you are not alone in this journey.  Alanon has saved many lives.  It has made me stronger and better.  It will do the same for you.  Just be patient and work your program.  Please keep coming back to us.  Love and blessings to you and your family.

Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty <-- the cat

Well have you read Getting them sober.  Toby Rice Drew certainly clears up who has the problem. I believe both people do.

I don't think it is much help to keep banging up against their denial.

I can be seduced by an alcoholic in a second. Detaching was so so key for me in learning how to take care of myself. 
There is lots of literature on de-taching out there. One source is www.coping.org.

Of course many of us have been where you are. I have many many times. I could still be there.  I have had to really learn to say "No" and mean it.  Practising No was very very hard.

As I become more and more detached from an alcoholic I stop being sucked into their stuff and keep focused on mine. Sure there are certainly days when I want to sit and wallow in despair and self pity and "why's".  As Canadian guy has said a few times his sponsor suggested he focus on the "what's " rather than the why.

For me the "what" of living with an alcoholic was total destruction, constant unremitting resentment, constantly being asked to give until I had nothing left to give and complete and unremitting chaos.

The chaos eventually took over. 

Eventually I got here and stuck around for a while.  I went to meetings, I asked for help.  I made a plan be. The plan be was hard because of course all I wanted was for him to change.

The only person who changed in the relationship was "me".  I changed and continue to change and I like the new me.

So keep coming back and keep at a program.  You will get better.  If you read the archives here you will see and hear many many many people who are where you are and you change.

Maresie.

I had the problem long before I ever hooked up with the EXAH. I never felt whole, never felt like I fit in, never felt a part of.

I was a codependent in training long before 'he' came along.

I was physically beaten and verbally abused, yet I stuck it out for 5 years because I 'thought' that was what love was all about.

Today, I choose not to bring a less than whole me, a me who has self-love, into any relationship.

Today I deserve better than what I settled for all those years.

It is the co-addicted dance. We are codependent and look to take care of others and not take care of ourselves. They are addicted to the booze and we are addicted to them.

Keep coming back!

In support,
Nancy

As in any relationship, it takes two. A very emotionally healthy person would not tolerate the sick behavior of the A... yes we play a huge part, this is why we go into recovery ourselves, to learn healthier ways of being.
    I commonly refer to what I have as a "love disease" b/c it is our love that is tested all the time and we think some very sick behavior is being loving, for example, 'the more I worry about you shows you how much I love you' or 'the more pain I can tolerate, proves my love' <-- that is simply not true.

It is up to us to grow and learn and lead our best lives in this journey called life. Sure you could just abandon all of your relationships and attempt to start over but I can assure you, you will attract the same types of relationships and what I have found, we often leave one only to have another one that is worse in many ways.
   It is my belief that relationships do get worse, harder or more trying if we don't learn from the previous one. They all seem to be stepping stones to the next. Equally, if our relationships seem to be improving but still fizzling out and we are growing and dealing with issues, they continue to get slightly better.

I am with a man now and he is not an A. We work hard on "tweaking" our relationship. I can't help but talk about issues, emotions with people and it does seem that we are getting better and dealing with each other. I know that when i went to get married, my Priest had told us that each day should build upon the next and that things ought to be improving and we should be bringing out the best in each other. Sadly, I married an addict and this is not the way our realtionship grew.
    However, I know that that is what healthy is (what the priest had said) and I have grown, changed, dealt with so much and gone through so much healing. Life is  a process, just like healing and it is improving markedly.

For me things really took a jump in the right direction when I was able to focus on me and learn to love myself, thru daily diligent practise and work. I really wanted a healthy relationship and the only thing I cared about was that they were not an A. It doesn't mean it is easy or perfect but it is not 24/7 insanity.

There certainly are members here and all over the world that have good loving realtionships w/ active A partners. No one can tell you what is right for you in your life or recovery. Al-anon is for us as individuals and we get to determine what we want out of our own lives, for ourselves.

Hang in there and good luck. Love yourself, you are worth it!