The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have read some of the threads and have gone to a few meetings and I know that I am still new, but noone talks about the anger. My husband is an active A, the longest he has gone without drinking is about thirty days after he smashed our new car, while drunk. He can be verbally abusive,and now the verbal abuse comes even when he is sober. I want to leave him desperately, but besides having three kids, I have been a stay at home. I am trying to get a job, so I can start making my own money. The other problem is that he won't leave I would have to pack up myself and the kids and leave. There was a time that I wanted to salvage my marriage, but he refuses to get any amount of help and I can't imagine my kids or myself having to live with this any more, yet we are trapped. When I read the writings about staying when someone has an opportunity to leave, I am perplexed. Why would you want to stay under the circumstance of someone just laying around not bathing and being abusive? Someone compared alcoholism to a brain tumor and the person couldn't help that either. The person with a tumor is most likely seeking all the help they can get to save their lives and their illness doesn't come along with destructive and abusive behavior. It is my choice but why would you want to stand in front of a speeding train if you can jump out of the way? I am having a really hard time dealing with my anger towards this and what it is robbing me and my children of. I know my anger isn't going to help me, and will probably impede my moving forward, but I can't help hating the thing that is destroying myself and my children's lives. Of course I keep this bottled up, because expressing to the alcoholic will not do anything and will only unleash his wrath towards me.
(((olga))) To get some quick ideas on dealing with anger type the word ANGER in to search at the top of this page. You can read previous posts from members giving their ESP on dealing with anger. Detachment in another subject that will help you in dealing with your present situation.
Abuse be it verbal or physical is still abuse. No one has to accept unacceptable behavior, and no one deserves to be verbially abuses under any conditions. This could indicate problems other than just alcohol. You not only need to consider yourself and your physical and mental well being but also that of your children. You indicate that the verbal abuse is getting worse. The disease of alcoholism is a progressive disease. The safety of you and your children come first, do not allow yourself to be put in harms way, please keep that in mind.
I live with an active alcoholic. My AW can make me angry,mad,hurt,pee'd off, and disgusted all in the same moment. I detach in different ways when I have those feelings either by walking away, not answering back when not necessarily required, repeating how important is it over and over, or just saying ,you might be right, when I realize saying anything else will only lead to escaluating the discussion (If that is what you want to call it). A's do love to argue, and I do not. I realize I do not have any control over the A in my life, and I have learned in Al-Anon not to let her actions control my feelings and emotions. When I did let this happen I became angry and resentful and even though I realize I had no control the A in my life, I had let her control me by affecting my serenity.
Keep comimg back and posting, read all the litature you can on the subject. If you can get to F2F Al-Anon meetings that would be great. Meeting are also available on this site daily. Check those out. You are at the right place and you are not alone. (((HUGS))) RLC
Hi Olga and am glad you found us. I am so sad that you feel trapped. However I see your strength and won't be surprised when you get your miracles.
I am the one who mentioned brain cancer. Sadly when we write here, it is our own experience. My husband did have a brain tumor.
It is a scientific fact that humans are born with genetic markers in their dna to be an addict. They do not choose it. Some have more markers than others. Part of the disease is denial, and also their brains do not think at all like a non addict, even sober.
They cannot just quit because someone else wants them to, they cannot just quit because they want to. Most all want to stop. Who wants to lose their families, get dui's, lose jobs,kill people drunk driving then drive again?
This is just a tip of being an active addict. Alcohol, heroin, meth, pain pills etc. our bodies do not know the difference except the reaction the drug causes.
A's are VERY sick people. No excuses at all. It is all fact. What we hope for, for them is that they hit a point of such misery that they will do anything to get help. To us all your A is experiencing should be miserable enough, but apparently not for him. His brain is sick, body metabolism too.
I compare brain tumor, diabetes, parkisons whatever,only to show it is just as unavoidable, and any illness, a disease.
Also with a brain tumor or cancer, their brains usually do not work properly and no, not all people with brain problems know to get help.
Almost all addicts need to be on a program of recovery through AA. They go to meetings, they make a plan that fits them. Up every day talking to hp, striving to be a better person, learn to think of others, learn to be honest, learn to be responsible.
However almost all relapse one or more times in their lives. Plus it takes several bouts of rehab before they may be able to get on a plan.It is a horrible, powerful, mischevious disease.
Not using only means nothing. Using, self centered, manipulative, dishonest, law breaking etc are symtoms of the disease.
I sure can relate to your situation. Wanting to protect your kids is very natural and I am glad you listen to that part of you. Possibly what a person can get out of Al Anon is skills to live with the A and feel more comfortable in their life.
For you this may mean learning tools so you can put into a plan/goal to get out. Possibly learning not to react to them, doing things for yourself, learning what they say is only the disease talking,learn not to take what they do personal. It is their disease not ours.
We cannot change it, control it, did not cause it, cannot cure it.
There is so much to take in Olga. It takes as long as it takes for each person to learn what they need to about addiction, and how they can live around it, or leave.
Anger goes away when we finally believe it is a disease like any other. Do we get mad if they have a stroke, get diabetes, cancer, any disease?
Anger, frustration, depression are a very normal reaction however, they only tear us apart. So we need to learn what it takes to take care of us.
Keep coming, meetings, books, chat room, message board, pm, we are here for you. love,debilyn
I am channeling all my anger at also being 'trapped' (ie under my parents' thumb right now, forced to live with my AD) into focusing on my goal, becoming financially independent via finishing my college degree.
I rely on AD for nothing, absolutely nothing, and that includes mowing the lawn, which she doesn't do anymore.
I have to pace myself because I have degenerative disc disease and chronic fatigue syndrome, but I get it done!
I constantly remind myself, this too shall pass, it's just going to take time, more time than I would like, but my higher power is right there for me to lean on.
There are resources out there to help out, and I'm getting some assistance right now from social services on my medical (I'm 7 grand in the hole on medical bills and that is WITH insurance), and I have my disability hearing next month.
You are not alone. Set your goals and channel that anger constructively! (((((hugs)))))
__________________
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
Thanks for your words. I know that I am not alone. Sadly too many of us are suffering with this. I need to stay as focus as I can so I can get out, but when I think of the obstacles, ie. the disruption to my kids lives, not that this is any better, where to go and the fear that if I go his verbal abuse might turn physical, it's overwhelming. I know I need to be smart about this as I figure out my best course of action.
Olg, I could have written your post myself. Although my A is not abusive when sober, and never physically abusive, I have endured verbal abuse that I would never heap upon anyone!!
I am, fortunately, in a position to put him on the street any time I wish. He is the one who is dependent, and without me, his lifestyle would change drastically. I never bring this up to him, but he knows...he's not stupid.
An A may not ask for the "disease". They may well have genetic markers for addiction. Excuse #1. But, as you say, a physical illness brings a person around to doing what is necessary to recover. When I think of disease, I think of cancer, tb, diabetes. Maybe this is why I still harbor anger...I don't think any excuse is good enough. And, in my opinion, tagging the word, "disease" on alcoholism is a copout. Excuse #2.
Obviously I have no words of wisdom on how to deal with anger. Maybe one of these days I'll figure it out. I have heard of people who claim to be serene while the A squanders the income, knocks the serene one around, goes to jail, gathers DUIs, makes him/herself useless in countless ways.
I can accept what I cannot change...but I cannot accept what I do not believe is true. There IS a difference.
I am angry as hell!!! But it is somehow cathartic to rant once in a while. If you got this far, thanks for reading.
I wish you and yours well. And I hope you are more successful than I have been in working yourself into a serene and peaceful life with an active alcoholic.
By the way, come back often. There are many, many people who understand, and most of them can give you a more positive response than I have.
Diva
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I'm sorry you have to be going through such a tough time with your AH. I want you to know that is okay to feel anger, I did and sometimes still do towards the A in my life. What he is doing to you and your children is destructive and you are doing the right thing by reaching out for answers. I would suggest attending some more meetings. I don't know if you are doing online meetings or F2F, but my suggestion would be F2F meetings. Every meeting has a little bit different feel so try different meetings until you find one you like and feel comfortable in. You don't need share if you don't feel comfortable, just listen. Also, try to find a sponsor. Someone you can relate to and/or feel comfortable with. This person can help you walk through this difficult situation so you don't have to go through it all alone. Alanon is a safe place... keep coming back...
Oh the anger!!!! That is a GREAT topic!!! I would suggest ring that up at a f2f meeting and listen to all the wonderful ESH you'll get.
As for me, my A was abusive in every single way. Actually when he was using, it wasn't as much of an issue as when he was sober.
Here you will hear that you don't have to accept unacceptable behavior. I hear you saying it is impossible for you to leave but that is your desire. You sound like you have a plan in place with getting a job. I would say keep working on your escape plan. Get that job, put away money, start making copies of all the important paperwork and put that in a location that he doesn't know about. I wouldn't talk about your escape plan to him or others who might inform him. It would probably be helpful for you to call your local DV shelter just to get their ideas on what you can do to get out and what to expect when leaving.
If you really want to leave you can. I hear you about the 3 kids, the lack of money, etc but if things get bad, you do have options you know. You can get a court to order him out of the house so you and the kids can stay. I would also suggest consulting with a lawyer (many offer a free first consultation) so that you know legally what you can expect.
As far as Aism being a disease, well, it is. It is not like a cancer or TB, it is more like AIDS. It is contagious and it makes others just as sick if not sicker than the person with it. It is progressive, there is NO cure, only a way to slow down it's progression and even when the symptoms are not being seen, the disease is still there. Many people don't even know they have HIV until they get really sick just like many A's don't know they have Aism until things get really bad.
Doesn't matter because no matter what is wrong with a person there is never an excuse for abuse.
The anger is something I have had to learn to deal with. Sometimes I let my anger fuel me to do what I needed to do. I used it to get a RO on my ex, I used it to go completely no contact with him, I used it to take the steps to protect myself and I used it to get me started on a new life. I have learned here how to let it go. Hanging on to useless anger makes me sick physically and mentally. Soemtimes it is best for me to simply acknowledge my anger and then let it go because it is not serving ME any purpose. My feelings are mine today. I do not expect anyone else to do anything about MY feelings. They are MINE to do with what I want.
When my A started being verbally abusive on a regular basis, that's when I started to seriously consider leaving. Before that, sometimes he'd be bad, and then he'd smarten up again - he'd get just good enough that I'd calm down. Sound familiar? When things got very bad, I made a decision that I COULD leave, and, oddly enough, that helped me to be able to stay. I'd think "OK, is this it?" and then go "Nah, he's just being stupid" and roll over and go to sleep. Around that time, we both made some changes, and things got tolerable. By the time he soberd up, three years later, the drinking and drugging were really not all that big on my radar - I had come to an accomodation with them.
To my mind, based on what I went through and what I see in alanon, those who can manage to stay with an active A and be reasonably happy have to have two things. One, there must be little or no abuse, or the abuse has to be infrequent enough that there are long quiet periods. Two, there must be some financial security. With those two things, it is sometimes possible for certain people to use the tools of alanon to find some serenity, and some joy in the marriage. Without them, most people either find that they HAVE to leave, or they stay but are very unhappy. Alanon tools only go so far.
As for the anger. For me, it was the deep-down realization that there really was something terribly wrong with him that helped a good part of the anger to go away. Getting some idea of the hell he was living through - even though, from the outside, most of the hell seemed to be self-inflicted. What also helped was when I stopped stepping on my own feet. So much of my anger was resentment - "I do all this stuff I don't want to do to make him happy and look how he treats me" type of thing. Once I stopped doing things I didn't want to do, stopped turning my life inside out to accomodate his, I had a lot less to be resentful about.
We can debate the "is it a disease' thing all day. For me, it helped me to get over my bad feelings, so that's good enough, I'm using it. I work with some autistic kids. They can be very frustrating and difficult to deal with. Although I'll feel irritation and frustration with them, I don't feel any true anger - they really are not being like this in order to make me crazy. They aren't doing TO ME, they are just doing it, for their own impossible-to-understand reasons. And the A was much the same. His flailing around in his pain sometimes hurt me badly, but it wasn't directed at me - I just got hit because I was close. The more I learned to protect myself, the less I hated him for it.
Olg - Anger is one of the most difficult feelings to deal with, I think, in the alcoholic situtation. However, it is just a feeling. We can overcome feelings. I have been where you are now. I survived the breakup of a marriage, family and business. Al Anon was my greatest support throughout the difficulties I faced. I think the most supportive feature is that there are people in the meetings who understand and care about my feelings and know how to stand with me.
Although this is a tough situation for you and your children, you will probably all learn valuable lessons which you might not otherwise know. My motto throughout the time of preparation to leave was "keep your eyes on the prize" and practice the principles of the twelve steps.
Detachment is a great tool. When we do that, we let the problem be the alcoholic's and just possibly, may see the miracle of their realization that they must find their own solutions. That's their way to sobriety. We can't do that for them.
God bless you and your family and keep coming back! It works!!
Welcome to the forum, olg. When I was married to my exAH, after some point, I withdrew and stopped telling him how I felt about anything. Most of them don't care & can't hear it anyway, they can't even deal with their own feelings. My exAH would be happy when he got me all worked up & upset, he loved feeding off of my energy & having that power over me. Also, he would use what I said against me.
I would look up meetings in your area, get to some face to face mtgs, get a beginner's packet & all of the pamphlets they have there to study, read, learn about this disease & the part you play in it. We often think we are helping & we have good intentions but some of the basic things we do negatively feed into their disease. Learning how to change your behavior & attitudes makes a huge difference for us & often times them too.
Anger always comes after pain. Depression is anger which is unexpressed. I grew up in this lifestyle (ACoA) and I had full blown rage at age 7. I have suffered with depression since I was a teenager. I am now 40. When I was a kid, I was not allowed to express any anger, whatsoever. This is not healthy, we need to be able to get our feelings out. I have had to work hard to be able to express anger in an emotionally mature manner. Our feelings are valid. I had to dig deelpy into myself & recall issues (or instances) that were points of contention for me, recognize my anger, get in touch with the pain that it originated from & then let it go. Forgiving myself for being human and forgiving the other person for what they did. If I am angry or holding a grudge, it only hurts me, the A probably doesn't even care.
It is up to us to feel, deal & heal.
I am with the others, abuse is not acceptable. I was verbally abused daily, I eventually left my situation, spntaneously. Would have been better if I had a plan. Know that the disease is progressive & it always gets worse, abuse too. Leaving can be a dangerous time, call a domestic abuse center to get some tips as previously suggested. A lot of abusers act out when you try to disentangle yourself from them. My exAH threatened to kill me & my entire family. For me it was just a threat but I take them very seriously too. I immediately called the police in my county & his to be on the record, in case he did show up, they would have already been aware of *me*. The police were informative & reassuring, they do not mind talking to you & know how serious these situations are. One of the things I had asked was, 'how long would it take you to get to me if I needed to call?' The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask (there are no dumb questions).
I used to go to a therapist, she said, 'forgive in incriments, layers. Don't expect to let everything go at once, give it time.' Recovery is a process. No one deserves to be abused, it is up to us to assert ourselves or our boundaries.
When I can't let go of my anger/pain consciously (I experience my emotions but then will intellectualize them as it helps me understand myself better) and have done all of the work I can myself, I willingly surrender them & give them over completely to my hp/god. God can handle whatever I have to give. This works for me.
As far as why others stay with their A's ~ everyone has their own reasons. It is your life, you need to focus on doing what is best for you & your kids. Get informed so you all will be safe. Take care of you, you are worth it!
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
For me the anger started to go as I began to unerstand a little more about the diesase and stopped taking his outbursts personally , it's all just booze talk and I learned to walk away and not listen . or react there is a page in our OdAT on July 14th that helped me alot especially *don't assage his guilt by arguing with him * I read that every day til I was actually doing what it said . As a member of your group you have the right to ask that anger be a topic for one of your meetings , no matter how long u have been attending YOU are a member . I always felt my husb was drinking at me , to pay me back for somthing that I may or maynot have done , he drank because he was alcoholic period had nothing to do with me , regardless of what they say YOU are not the reason they drink . I stayed in my marriage I was not ready or able to leave al anon showed me how to stay put and get happy regardless of what he was doing , your kids need you and deserve one sane parent . You can choose to BLOOM WHERE YOUR PLANTED . go back to school if u want to , look after yourself become your own best friend . your gonna be just fine . A sponsor is great to bounce anger off of they don't get involved emotionally talk it all out , I heard early in my program to take my problem to a sponsor or a meeting and come home with a solution . it works and saves alot of arguments turns out I just wanted to be heard didn't have to be him . Louise
my 2 cents is that yeah, verbal and emotional/psych abuse can and does turn physical- all abuse escalates, its the nature of abuse. The more I detached, the worse it got, too. The more I ignored his talk/yelling, the more furious he became.
Please be very careful of you and your children. Hugs, J.
You have some really great responses here. I so understand our anger and want to just say that I had such horrible rage for several years and thought there was something wrong with me. I didn't know until I found Al-Anon what was causing such anger and resentment in me. I am soo grateful for this program. If you can find some f2f meetings I highly recomend it.
The other thing I wanted to share is some experience I have had with progressive illness. My Gramdmother died about 3 years ago before she passed she put she and my Grandfather thousands of dollars in debt. She also was extremely violent both vebally abusiv and physically abusive. She died of Alzhiemers Disease.
I have a neighbor whose husband has a progressive disease. Her doctor told her that whenthings get really bad she needs to take time out for herself and even get a motel room occasionally. He is often violent verbally and has bouts of physical violence that the doctors said will probably get worse. He has Parkinsons' Disease which is complicated by Diabetes.
I am sharing these stories with you all because when I finally accepted the disease aspect of Alcoholism, I could stop blaming and start working on my solutions. For me it was really hard to accept too. I realised that part of what kept me from accepting was the fact that if it was a diesase then I couldn't deceive myself into thinking there was an easy fix. (If he would just stop all would be hunky dory again)
So that's my ESH. As we say in the program, take what you like and leave the rest.
Just know you are not alone, esp in the anger.
In recovery,
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
I've certainly been there. I have written lots about my anger at the A. There is a ton of stuff in the archive. If you go to individual persons you can read lots of their stuff. Sometimes it does not go that far back. But hey I have been here a few years and I have seen and heard lots of anger.
The A who I was with was famous for smashing cars. That nearly killed me I have to say it. I found it pretty hard to detach from, wore some phone lines out with raging about it.
I worked on detaching it certainly is an art.
I had to leave, can't say it was easy. Making a plan be helps. Make it, don't act on it, sit with it, put it out here, discuss it with al anon people. Of course you don't discuss it with him.
Do things for you no matter how small daily, take care of you.
One of the persons I was most angry at was me. I had to look at I was completely caught up in codependency. I had such rage at myself not acting for continously being re-caught up with him. I got hooked back in.
I looked at the hooks.
I came here daily and posted for a long long time. I still am here daily if i can. i find it so rewarding and so crucial to my recovery.
Go to the chat room, go to meetings if you can (they have them here if you can't get out). Be kind to yourself that is one good way to deal with anger!
