The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
As you all know I have been going out on dates. Recently I met three men, one an alcoholic in recovery (he has long term recovery), the others two different men.
Guess who I feel most comfortable with?
The recovering alcohoic has numerous red flags, smokes (I am asthmatic and really allergic to smoke) has no plans on quitting, has an enmeshed totally codependent relationship with his daugher (who lives with him), has no idea what al anon is and more.
I want to rush in, fix his ptsd (he isn't fixing it after all!), care for his daugher, be enmeshed in a second.
I have lots of "outs". I am very busy (he only works part time and is poor as a chuch mouse), have two dogs who require lots of input, live a long way away (50 miles). Yet I want to hang around. He's available in an unavailable way (I have at least been able to pull that out, being available doesn't mean emotionally available). His daugher is sitting there whenever I speak to him on the phone and chimes in on the conversations (funny how I never saw boundaries as an issue before). I never saw a cue, red flag, nothing and when I did I just didn't know what to do with them. I let them sit there blinking rather than take the cue and run!
Guess what I want to stick around because after all I'm lonely and like having someone to talk to even if all those red flags are staring at me day in day out. Guess where I'll be if I do..up the creek again.
Walking away isn't easy even when I know I absolutely have to. Walking away is a choice I didn't make before till it was total disaster and I know where that got me, homeless, penniless and stuck.
Getting unstuck isn't easy. Getting unstuck means saying no to the familiar and yes to the unfamiliar and that brings up a lot of anxiety for me.
Maresie
I have to keep remembering for me familiar is not the place I want to be!
my cell phone is broken so I see that a sign from HP that I'm supposed to stop and think. I must say waiting and reflecting is hard for me. I usually run gungho into a relationship. Now I set boundaries and look for red flags. I'm only doing that now because I really cannot be homeless and penniless again in my life. I promised myself I will never be in this position again so I'm "willing" to go differently. I also have two dogs who have been traumatized enough.
Do you think you are ready for another relationship with an A? Can you apply the tools of the program? Do your really want to try and are you strong enough emotionally.? There is that daughter who is not going away, that could be another issue. Just playing Mother, Luv, Bettina
I think there is nothing wrong with dating, having someone to talk to and just enjoy the company. What I got out of your post is that you are actually answering your own questions stating all the reasons why this man might not be someone you are looking for. You post made me think about someone I dated in my past while my bf and I were broke up. He was not an A and treated me very well and I just could not believe that he was so nice to me. I felt like I did not deserve that man, he even brought me roses and gifts. Most of all that guy was emotionally available. A lot of times I felt like he was clingy and backed off. It was totally uncommon ground for me that I was not used to. I ended up breaking up with him and going back to my A. Now I understand why I felt that way. Hope this helps some.
Please don't get me wrong I have a lot of respect for my friend and his recovery. Nevertheless after a lot of phone calls there are too many red flags.
His daugher isn't just enmeshed with him she's glued to his side all the time. I haven't had one conversation when she wasn't there and chiming in! There would be no privacy in that relationship at all.
He has a lot of good elements but has untreated ptsd to deal with. I could run in and help him with that but where would that get me - certainly not where I want to be. I also quite frankly don't want to deal with an unemployed, joined at the hip daughter and granddaughter.
The issue is I met another man who lives closer, I have more in common with him (similar interests and work backgrounds) and he wanted to go out again and I felt hesitant. He has boundaries, he has a life, he has expressed interest and I'd much rather be in my comfort zone with something I know enmeshment and the call to rescue. Oh I love that siren call!
Maresie- I'm not sure but reading between the lines, I think Bettina is suggesting that you are not easing in to the pool, but maybe starting out by jumping off the high diving board. (((HUGS))) RLC
It's hard to keep the long run in mind and remember that the short term satisfaction of the familiar routine with someone who isn't right will hold you back you from being able to find someone who is. (I'm currently trying to beat that into my own head as well. Lol. ;P)
No I'm not diving into anything that's why I wait and watch my reactions. I wait wait wait and wait. Then I wait some more.
With the A I jumped right in. One reason I am relucant to do the friends first routine is that I was friends first with the A. Next minute I was totally over committed.
There is no question I can be distant friends with some people but if I hear the siren call of rescue or enmeshment I have to skidaddle.
Dating for me used to be the window to relationship. I wanted a relationship not to date. Now I'm just dating, of course I want a relationship but i have to date.
There is nothing wrong with a recovering alcoholic at all. This particular recovering alcoholic has too many issues for me to get my needs met. If I can't get my needs met in a phone call (we can't have a conversation without his daughter being present, chiming in, or butting in) I'm probably not going to get my longer term needs met. If someone doesn't have boundaries (he doesn't) then I'm not going to get my needs met.
My needs matter more now. He may have needs but I was not put on the earth to meet them. I was put here to meet my own and take care of me first and then if I have some to spare (and only then) to give to others if I want to, desire to, not because I need to compulsively.
((( Maresie ))) I think it is great that you have the awareness & tools now to see with your eyes wide open and make a conscious decision. I know it is so inherent in us to jump to help fix someone else. I am here to remind you that your job in recovery is to keep working on fixing yourself.
This gave me no joy for a very long time. Today, I find it empowering & I am so grateful no one else can fix me. There is no reason you could not be a friend to this recovering A but even that could be extremely challenging & difficult to keep your ofcus on your Program. As long as it doesn't affect your serenity. So far, it seems like knowing him is giving you a lot to think about.
I met 2 men & went on 2 dates in the last week. I liked one guy. I am not thinking about him or focusing on him... in the past, I always did a lot of pursuing. I am ready to allow a man to do the work. let him come to me, chase me, prove he is interested in me.
My last b/f treated me well, isn't an A & always paid for everything. In fact, since we broke up in early February, we are even better friends, in fact he's probably the best friend I've ever had. I have been in need of a lot of help & he has been there eager all the way. We never had a great connection sexually, so I feel like I am getting the very best out of him, we truly are great friends, love each other & he enjoys helping me still. I think he is enjoying seeing the changes I've made (esp recently). Yesterday he sd, "just think of where you were this time last year." Well, this time last year, I couldn't get out of bed, I was sleeping, depressed all the time & suicidal thoughts were rampant. Gettin up to go to a move was a chore ~ my attitude was horrible.
One of the exciting things about new ppl & potential new relationships, is that uncertainty that anything can happen and sure I could get into the anxiety & be so nervous I end up being closed to the new experiences.
That nervey anxious fear of the new feeling can be very liberating to walk through. I know you can do it & maybe you will have an even better time with him. It's great you have things in common w/ background to share w/ this other guy.
I used to never be interested in money but now that I'm older I realize you have to have money to go out with. I have done my time paying for men in the past. If they are interested in me, they can pay to take me out.
Good luck taking care of yourself and walking through new & different experiences, surely they will be better than the crap we've already put up with!
love, -k
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
I definitely did the pursuing and the paying in the past. When I met the ex he was doing very well, the best he's ever done financially. Nevertheless I bore the brunt of a lot of financial issues. I paid for a great deal. He did pay for some household expenses but I paid by taking care of the house (which was never to his satisfaction of course). He would also use any excuse to get me to pay for gas, food whatever. I started to weigh how generous I wanted to be.
I am in a cordial place with this man. If I were to go deeper it would not be cordial I would be resentful he is not what I need. Why go there? Resentment is so toxic. Its not my job to teach him boundaries and if he doesn't want to know about ptsd he doesn't. I am sure before I came along there were other opportunities for him to learn about it and he hasn't taken them.
I know enmeshment very well. I don't know healthy assertiveness. I used to label healthy assertieness my chasing men. Now I label that "desperate" for me.
Thank you for your feedback. I fully intend to boundary up.
My dog will be fine. I 've been dealing with her rash for years. I dealt with it then I'll deal with it now. I just don't want to unless its some huge dramarama.
Hi Mary, As you get healthier you will get even more sure you can say no to the familiar disease, after all it is not the man who makes you comfy,it is the disease.
hey as usual you don't see what ya did right. You are paying attention. questioning yourself. Coming here and being honest and sharing!! pat yourself on the back. I also love how you are protecting your animal family. I have a feeling if you think of them, it won't be so hard to say no to him. Probably easier than doing if for you.
Also Mary ya don't have to get married to any of the men you date. If I were you I would go out with the man you are unsure about. Just go have a good time. Maybe not be so analytical. Just be in the moment.
Just go out and breath. Geez mary I am proud of you going out on dates!!
I cannot imagine it.Would have no idea how. Would not have any idea how to be comfortable in my cloths. Now take me to visit a horse barn in my levis and I will be fine...
Anyway wow Mariesie, what is good about this dating?? Wow to just hear a man talking to me, that would be heaven.
I am dating also right now and sure enough- you can spot them a mile away-
I have been dating a real rescuer- he wants to fix and take care of like crazy- I will spend a little time with him but not much. I have made it clear that I do not need rescuing nor do I expect him to rescue- I am pretty sure he will find someone who needs rescuing in time- there are a lot of them out there...he is a friend of the family and we have fun but that is it and that is just fine!
One is also a fixer but a smarter one. He stands back and is more passive.
Another lives far away and is a workaholic and is pretty much unavailable.
All are fine for very simple dating/enjoyment. I am so not interested in anything more than this! I v much want to live my own life, have my own place and focus on me but sometimes its fun to go out and do stuff and share some experiences with another person. Plain and simple.
Maresie, you can just do this too- just hang out and do stuff, plain and simple- who cares if they are purple with green polka dots?! Or alcoholics? If you can hold the boundary and simply hang out and go to a movie every once in awhile and keep it at that, you are golden...Hugs, J.
(((((mare)))))), you're having such great awareness. Guess which one we're most comfortable with, indeed.
This just occurred to me as an idea, so I'll share it - why not go out again, low key, with the nearer guy, and pay attention both to the things that make you uncomfortable and the things that make you comfortable. It could be that the discomfort is unfamiliarity with healthy behaviour. Or it could be that something in him or about him is not going to be the style of the new healthier maresie. Either outcome is fine - but it doesn't hurt to do the research.
The issue for me I think is that dating is exhausting. All that processing!
I think I'm going to put it on hold for a while, stay friends with whoever and keep at it. I observe observe observe. My dates are real low key, no dinner, just coffee somewhere that's about it. I talk on the phone. I went on a marathon date with one man months back and that was too hard for me. I used to dream of those. Now I don't spend too much time in their presence but I'm all eyes and ears. I'm afraid, fearful and hardly relaxed.
As you all know i'm basically on survival so I am going to do a lot more on having my life balanced then go back out on the dating market. I'm also looking at whoever it is has to have common interests. The A and I had none. There has to be common things to hold a relationship together.
Your awareness is just unbelievable and I hope to be able to do this someday! Since my 26-yr. marriage just ended, I am hardly ready to consider dating. For the most part, I like focusing on myself for now. Just for today.
Seriously, I was laughing my head off at your honesty and awareness of yourself....how (ultimately) healing is that?!!! You are going to be just fine, I am sure of that!
I enjoy living vicariously through you and everyone else who's dating... I hope I can be so mindful....someday.....maybe.
((((hugs))))
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
wow, I haven't even been on a date with anyone I would write about. Well at least not a second "date". The selection here is non existent. I'm thinkinging about joining the nunnery (still) it's been almost a year and a half!!! UGH
I can hardly define it as success. I don't normally get to the second date either. I wouldn't even call what I have been doing dating, I'd call it looking. I am terrified so I am backing off for a while now. Clearly the way I look isn't working for me.
