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This is my first post. My father is an alcoholic. He drank so much that he has possibly given himself irreversible brain damage, in the form of short-term memory loss. He broke his hip last summer and was hospitalized for three months due to: 1. The Hip, 2. The bed sore, 3. And the DT's. (He is also a smoker and withdrawal from that had to make things worse).
His whole side of the family got involved, with lots of advice on what to do. Most of it involved confronting him all the time about his actions, which I did, and now do.
It's come to my attention that he is drinking again. I called him up and bitched him out about it. He had a bunch of ridiculous replies including "I'm not an alcoholic, alcoholics can't go a minute without a drink and I go a long time." To which I replied that binge drinking is alcoholism and that malnurishing yourself and breaking your hip are sure indicators of a problem.
Anyway, back to my question. I read an article about detachment. And it almost vindicates what my mom does. Which is to say she completely ignores the problem. But this article sort of makes sense. Except that my mom acts helpless about taking control of her finances and I'm sure detachment doesn't include sitting around watching your husband drink you out of a home, does it? But the fact that nobody can change him is true. I just don't know what to do and I'm tired of trying. Should I shun him? What about my mom? Any ideas about the extent of "detachment"?
It seems to me that detachment means that you don't let the addict's choices overtake your thinking or life. You let them manage their own life and the consequences thereof. THIS IS NOT EASY. So Alanon is an important part of getting the support you need to be able to learn how to detach. Confronting addicts just makes them defensive and doesn't get you the results you want. Maybe somewhere, some day an addict might thank us for our concern and check themselves into treatment, but I don't think that happens too much on this planet. Mostly the disease just snaps back at you with cracked logic. The best thing you can do in terms of detaching is try to encourage your mother to go or go with you to Al Anon meetings and keep going yourself. I'm sorry you are having this problem in your life. Any action you take with your father has to be from as neutral a place as you can get it. If it's punitive, it will just backfire. Do your best to keep the focus on your own peace of mind and happiness with the support of AlAnon. Take care,
Um I dont' think personally it is about ignoring the issue. To me detachment is about taking control of my reaction to the issue. There are things I can control and things I can't. Not reacting isn't ignoring the issue. Its taking control of my response so I don't dissolve under the stress. I see it as very very active rather than passive.
I lived with an active alcoholic for 7 years, 3 years of that I was in al anon. He regularly at least once a month went on a bender. When he did that I would be up all night, pacing, obsessing making myself ill. When I came to al anon I started turning him over to a HP rather than feeling totally responsible for him. Of course I say this now and I need to interject none of us detach perfectly especially not at first. After turning the A over to HP and acknowledging there was nothing I could do I could sleep. I woke up the next day and the A certainly was in a mess but I was not without a nights sleep.
If you can buld up a pattern of detachment then you can build strength to get through whatever else you need to do. I see detachment actually as the embodiment of the serenity prayer. What can I do (realistically not the super hero response) and what can I live with? I used to believe the only thing I could live with was to be a super hero in helping others. Now I don't. I can see someone with a need and not feel I am the only one in the world to fill it. I have needs too, mine don't need to be squashed because someone else has them. I am still generous,loving and kind but in a very different way. I'm in the equation too rather than left out of it.
All this of course is a foreign language when you first come to al anon there are other suggestions in the program like working to being pleasant to the alcholic (not enabling but not over reacting). That is still pretty hard for me. I work to being civil and that is really hard too. None of this came easily for me but I know the other side of this not doing the program and know where it got me.
Focusing on ourselves is one way that we deal with this. I tend to over compensate for others, do for others what they need to do for themselves, tolerate really awful behavior from people. Removing myself from situations where I am abused is new for me. I do that now, earlier and earlier. I don't over involve myself immediately with others anymore.
We have all been there in trying to confront someone about their drinking. In time we stop doing that but we set limits. We do not enable and that is hard going. We also look at what we need to do. I was really pretty bad at that in the beginning. I still struggle but I have to say the more I can focus on myself the less I can get caught up in other people's stuff.
Of course no one is suggesting you do any of this without acknowledging your feelings. Of course you have a tremendous amount of feelings about your father and your mother and the whole situation. No one is here suggesting your turn those off and become an automaton. The suggestion just is you go to the right place with those feelings. An active alcoholic and their codependent spouse aren't always able to acknowledge grief, rage and frusration. They are on survival if not numb and in denial mode. I think its pretty crucial to have those feelings acknowledged but maybe you are not going to get that from your family of origin.
Everyone of us here is facing tremendous obstacles, problems, issue with dealing with an alcoholic. No one here is going to judge you or give you marks on your recovery or even compare their situation to ours. The gift of the program is the diversity and breadth of the membership. We are here to support, love, care and encourage each other to use the tools. They are pretty hard to use and not one of us wants to be in this position, but we are so we make the best of it.
I 'm not sure I would ever say that before one can have a life when all around you people are crumbling in self destruction. You can have a life, treasure it and find pleasure in it.
You deserve that no matter what your father does, mother does, what does or doesn't happen with your father you deserve a life that is full and loving and with people around you who will support you.
You'll find love, care, understanding, support and feedback here.
Hi, and welcome to MIP.... I'll repost something I posted a couple of weeks ago, direct from Toby Rice Drews, the author of the "Getting Them Sober" books.... I would strongly encourage you (and your Mom) to get yourself a copy of this book (volume one). It will explain so much of this craziness to the both of you, and will even help you begin to understand your Mom's behavior. Here you go....
Tom
Enabling vs. Detachment Hi all... we've had lots of great discussion on the board in recent weeks about the subjects of "enabling" and "detachment", so I thought I'd post some great information about both of these items, direct from an expert in the field..... Hope it clarifies some of the misconceptions out there....
Take care,
Tom
p.s. for those of you struggling with a child having addictions, I see that Toby has now written a book specifically aimed for you, entitled "Getting Your Children Sober". If it's anything like her original series, it's likely a valuable book for your recovery.....
The following is posted, with authorization, from Toby Rice Drews, author of the "Getting Them Sober" books on recovery.
In one of the chapters of the book, "Getting Your Children Sober", I wrote about the myths that most counselors believe, that lead them to mis-diagnose and be off-base in the treatment of the families of alcoholics that they have as patients.
Here, I"ve copied and pasted part of that chapter that deals with the myths that therapists often believe, when they are counseling the family where there is alcoholism/addiction---------- (to read several of the chapters from that and three other books, go to the section of this website called "DOZENS of GTS excerpted book chapters. If you don't have children or if they don't have problems with addiction/alcoholism, and if you are only dealing with adults with those problems, these chapters will still help you.)
"Myth #6: When parents are told they are enablers, it leads them to stop the enabling."
Enabling is meant to describe the rescue operations that the spouse or parent of an alcoholic carries out, when he cant stand watching the alcoholic suffer the consequences of the disease. When that happens, he cleans up the alcoholics messes (lies to the school that his son has the flu when the child was actually picked up for drunk driving). That way, the alcoholic doesnt suffer the real consequences of his behavior.
A parent must learn, eventually, to get some detachment on watching these crises happen in order to stop cleaning up after the child. The idea is to allow the disease to hurt the child so much that he or she wants to get sober. Of course, it takes a parent a lot of time in a healing group such as Al-Anon in order to be able to do this. And this detachment cant be forced or rushed by counselors. It is a slow process, and very frightening.
When a mother rescues her alcoholic child and I label her an enabler, she obviously is still doing the rescuing behaviors and is not yet unafraid enough to give them up. She knows I am being judgmental when I use this term. Even when I say it lovingly, I seem to be admonishing her to go faster than she is capable of doing at that time. And she feels despairing, because she is doing her best. She may get so discouraged and frustrated and overwhelmed that she stops treatment.
More specifically, the term enabler implies that while the parents did not cause the drinking, their rescue operations contributed to the perpetuation of the drinking. Such thinking is dangerous; it leads alcoholics, who are already looking for a way to blame others for the drinking, into again placing responsibility for the drinking on the family.
Alcoholics do not need any encouragement to blame others! Alcoholism counselors spend most of their time trying to crack through the blame-systems of alcoholics. It is considered to be a major breakthrough in the wellness process of alcoholics when they begin to acknowledge that nothing got them drunk. In contrast, alcoholics who have had relapses and are re-entering treatment are now often heard saying, I wouldnt have gone out that time if I hadnt been enabled!
The alternative to being labeled enablers is to teach you to end the rescue operations through the simple but effective process of detachment. For, detachment will help end your fears and it is your fears that originally caused you to rescue. And even though, in this book, we are primarily talking about parents and kids, the detachment process is especially important if you also are married to an alcoholic. It is important for you to lose your fears of that adult alcoholic so you can get on with your life and become more able to deal with your children-alcoholics.
How does detachment work? How does it help you to lose your fears of your alcoholic child or spouse? The general process goes something like this:
1) When you begin to learn ways to stop watching the alcoholic in order to begin the healing process of seeing to your own needs, the alcoholic has radar and senses this switch in focus.
2) Much of the games stop then, because the alcoholic child knows that less attention will be paid to him or her.
3) By continuing to focus on yourself instead of the alcoholic, you get an even greater distance (detachment) from the threats, and begin to lose your fears of them. You begin to see how you gave the alcoholic so much of his or her power. You can take it back!
4) Again, the alcoholic senses this. He or she begins to threaten even less.
5) You see that detachment works! You gain more confidence. Many of the illusions in your household are beginning to end.
6) You lose much of your preoccupation with the alcoholic. Your preoccupation was based on your needing to stop him or her from hurting you. You now see they are much less capable of hurting you than you thought. Theyve already done most of the damage they can do. But the game has been to keep up more of the same junk, to keep up the illusion that the alcoholic is powerful. This no longer works. You have learned not to look at him or her; to walk out of the room; out of the house to not beg.
7) The alcoholic now stands alone with his or her disease. Theyve lost their audience, and therefore drop much of the bullying. You are not watching it.
The alcoholic can no longer get you to believe you are responsible for his or her drinking and for the craziness in that house.
9) The alcoholic has a chance to grow up and make a decision to get help.
10) You are free.
When I teach parents the dynamic of what I have just described, they begin to naturally let go of the disease to detach, and therefore stop their rescuing because they are losing their fears of the alcoholics. All of us stop manipulating and controlling people when we lose our fears of them.
* * *
As a therapist, I try to let parents know that I will gently help them along the not-straight road toward freedom from their fears. I let them know that they do not have to meet a timetable. In fact, I let them know that I am aware that I do not walk in their shoes, that they must be comfortable to make even a small step; that what I will do is love and accept them, even when they vacillate in their ability to detach from the disease.
I let the parents know that I know they will be ready some day. I try to give them the same hope that Al-Anon holds out that my acceptance of them will be part of the healing and will help move them along toward health and the choices that they now can only dream of.
And then, gently, naturally, interventions do happen, because with one hand I provide the healing embrace and comfort of total acceptance and without pressure; while with the other hand, I hold up the mirror of reality and nudge them along ever so gently toward reality.
P.S.------ People sometimes ask me, "well, if he is never home, and if he is supposed to pay my cable tv bill, I am the one who feels deprived, not him, if I don't rescue and pay the bill".
What I reply is, "We all have to use our God-given common sense. There are no totally-black-and-white answers. When alcoholism counselors say, "don't rescue'-----they do not mean that one should NEVER rescue. OF COURSE if you see an alcoholic who has fallen down in the street and is bleeding, you call an ambulance! That is just using your common sense. But what we encounter daily, are the non-life-threatening issues that we need to learn to deal with----------again, in a common-sense way--------
a. if he runs up a bar bill, we often say, "don't pay it for him" b. If he needs his golf course bill paid---------and if he takes clients there who pay him well and that income pays your child's tuition and your mortgage------ then it's often better to pay it! c. if he is supposed to pay the utilities and he does not-------it's often best to pay them so that you have electricity! d. if he is violent-------OF COURSE you FIRST AND LAST------ do or do-not-do what is best, to protect yourself and your children. e. if you are terrified to lose him---------that he would leave if you didn't rescue his bills------- then you must do what YOU want to do------
As one of my chapter titles in my books says, "no one has the right to tell you to leave the alcoholic---------not even your counselor".
We all have the right to heal in our own time, in our own way.
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
your father is a grown man making his own decisions... whether you like the decisions he makes or not, they are made by him and you must accept them
acceptance lets us not be in denial. your father is an alcoholic. he chooses to keep drinking. he has probably been bitched at all his life... and still he drinks. ie. bitching = getting nowhere
should you shun him? i guess you could... but i really don't think shaming him will get the bottle out of his hands... see PP above on "bitching"
if i had to write 1 simple definition for detachment, it would be:
- the art of shutting up and letting people make their own mistakes and life choices;
detachment with love:
- the art of shutting up and letting people make their own mistakes and life choices, and perhaps learn that their behavior is directly related to their pain; also, never taking their inventory.
neither of my definitions imply that we should accept unacceptable behavior; that is where we need our boundaries to be in place and firm. i do believe that really loving a person can mean letting them feel the pain of their own lives without me trying to soften the blow. the most i can do is be emotionally available.
these are my perspectives, and the program does say... take what you like and leave the rest!
with love and hope, cj
__________________
time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
Detachment takes time and alot of practice , you have your life to live , shameing dad is only going to make him feel worse and u too actually when we speak angrily at another person we feel guilty and trust me u just don't need it . allow them the dignity to live or die the way they choose i was told , damn hard work . LOve him and accept where he is at set boundaries for your relationship encourage m om to get help for herself , maybe attend al anon meetings with her -- talking about it only keeps her sick no solutions al anon offers solutions for our problems . Keep the focus on your own needs and leave dads problem with him where it belongs , you have a life to live and we cannot help anyone who dosent want help , best way to support them in my opinon is to get yur own life in order and allow them to be who they need to be . good luck Louise
For me there are two things here, there is the need for detachment and then there is grief. Speaking as someone who really worked on detachment when my two addicted (they both had multiple addictions as well as major mental health issues) were declining. I managed to save my sanity by detaching (I lived overseas but I did detach from the insanity they created around them).
Nevertheless there is and was tremendous grief about their lives. As the saying goes they lived as they died. I had unreasonable expectations of my two sisters who are both alcoholics.
So I see detachment in certain situations as many issues. There is detaching for our sanity and then working through the process. Obviously a family member getting to the point of no return is a huge deal. For me then its all the more reason I have to detach and work on myself rather than get lost in their insanity.
I would have loved to have the movie book quiet lovely serene companionship for parents to even to be "there" but that wasn't possible. Once again I was robbed of anything close to normality.
I wasn't destroyed by it but its certainly pretty hard to deal with.
The alcoholic can no longer get you to believe you are responsible for his or her drinking and for the craziness in that house.