Here are some ways people manipulate (you shouldn't show this to the A).

Persuasion principles

paulaque · Member

ANGRY, BETRAYED AND TRAPPED

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Paulaque!!

You are so right in the right place. Where you are at right now is where most
of us get before we start looking or help and not for support that we are right
and we are better than the alcoholic and their thinking, feeling, actions.

Right now is a very good time to look for the hotline number for the closest
Al-Anon meeting in your area. I suggest that you find one and surround
yourself with others who have solutions that they have arrived at in program
and that are working for them and might work for you also.

No sense focusing on the alcoholic and what he is, what he does or doesn't do
and all of the misery because that is never the solution. It never was for me
and I learned at face to face meetings how to let go of things that didn't work.

I let others in recovery remake me and for that I am very grateful. Today my
life isn't about what others are doing or not doing or how sick or demented
they are. It's about how I choose to have my life happen and more.

Go to the phone book and hunt up that AL-ANON hotline number. Get to a
meeting.

(((((hugs))))) smile

stariana · Veteran Member

Sorry for your frustration.... it is so challenging dealing with an A, sober or not.

I know from my own experience, even though my AH got clean, he was still the same person with the same personality traits, and I still had the same anger issues. They don't just go away because the drink/drug is gone.

What helped me through it all was detachment. I practiced it in my sleep! It is difficult, but it really does work. I tried to work on my own behaviors, reactions, and reasons why I was feeling the way I did. I took the focus off of what he was doing, and went to as many meeting as I could.

Hope this helps, keep coming on here to get the support you deserve...

maire rua · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, it is difficult to detach and not engage, they are very frustrating people and completely able to turn things to whatever truths they want, it is annoying, keep practicing for you,

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

Here are some ways people manipulate (you shouldn't show this to the A).

Persuasion principles

Much of persuasion and other forms of changing minds is based on a relatively small number of principles. If you can understand the principles, then you can invent your own techniques. It thus makes sense to spend time to understand these principles (persuaded yet?).· Alignment: When everything lines up, there are no contradictions to cause disagreement. · Amplification: Make the important bits bigger and other bits smaller. · Appeal: If asked nicely, we will follow the rules we have made for ourselves. · Arousal: When I am aroused I am full engaged and hence more likely to pay attention. · Association: Our thoughts are connected. Think one thing and the next is automatic. · Assumption: Acting as if something is true often makes it true. · Attention: Make sure they are listening before you try to sell them something. · Authority: Use your authority and others will obey. · Bonding: I will usually do what my friends ask of me, without negotiation. · Closure: Close the door of thinking and the deal is done. · Completion: We need to complete that which is started. · Confidence: If I am confident, then you can be confident. · Confusion: A drowning person will clutch at a straw. So will a confused one. · Consistency: We like to maintain consistency between what we think, say and do. · Contrast: We notice and decide by difference between two things, not absolute measures. · Daring: If you dare me to do something, I daren't not do it. · Deception: Convincing by trickery. · Dependence: If you are dependent on me, I can use this as a lever to persuade you. · Distraction: If I distract your attention, I can then slip around your guard. · Evidence: I cannot deny what I see with my own eyes. · Exchange: if I do something for you, then you are obliged to do something for me. · Experience: I cannot deny what I experience for myself. · Fragmentation: Break up the problem into agreeable parts. · Framing: Meaning depends on context. So control the context. · Harmony: Go with the flow to build trust and create subtle shifts. · Hurt and Rescue: Make them uncomfortable then throw them a rope. · Interest: If I am interested then I will pay attention. · Investment: If I have invested in something, I do not want to waste that investment. · Involvement: Action leads to commitment. · Logic: What makes sense must be true. · Objectivity: Standing back decreases emotion and increases logic. · Obligation: Creating a duty that must be discharged. · Passion: Enthusiasm is catching. · Perception: Perception is reality. So manage it. · Pull: Create attraction that pulls people in. · Push: I give you no option but to obey. · Repetition: If something happens often enough, I will eventually be persuaded. · Scarcity: I want now what I may not be able to get in the future. · Similarity: We trust people who are like us or who are similar to people we like. · Specificity: People fill in the gaps in vague statements. · Substitution: Put them into the story. · Surprise: When what happens is not what I expect, I must rethink my understanding. · Tension: I will act to reduce the tension gaps I feel. · Threat: If my deep needs are threatened, I will act to protect them. · Trust: If I trust you, I will accept your truth and expose my vulnerabilities. · Understanding: If I understand you, then I can interact more accurately with you.

Confusion makes us pretty tired. We can't brain storm what we need to do. Alcoholics do a lot to keep drinking. One technique is to deny it no matter what the consequences.

I've been manipulated by the best of them. Detaching really helps, getting calm helps too (of course that is easier said than done).

You are absolutely in the right place being here. Of course you are angry. I found expressing my anger to the A useless so I came here and did it. Then I expressed it to a lot of people. Now I'm a little more select.

Keep working on this. Remember patience you don't have to solve this all in a day.

maresie.

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

Paula, you really should concentrate on yourself and work your program. Do not speculate about whats going to happen. When your married to an A, you should always prepare yourself and have a plan in case you have to leave. Yes, sobriety brings other issue's , like gee, maybe I blamed his behavior on the alcohol and don't forget after drinking for so many years its has changed the way they think and they may not be the same person. Yes, alcohol is a negative thing, but we dont have to be and when we work the program, we are able to make better decisions for oursleves. Its hard sometimes to separate who we are from the alcoholic and we can feel like were the ones that drink and have the problem. This detachment has to be learned and perfected, because it works. Shows us and takes a big load off of our shoulders when we learn that this business of drinking is not our business and not ours too deal with. Imagine feeling so much lighter when you really contemplate it and figure it out. What helps me is to get out of myself and help others. I have my religious beliefs and Im active with that. The A is not my focus, he has been sober 13 days, after 26 years of active drinking and maybe even more because I met him 26 years ago and he was already drinking by then. There is hope, but its action that helps you get there. If we dedicated ourselves to a great plan like alanon, like we have dedicated ourselves to the Alcoholic, we would be so much better off.
Alanon is not just because we have an Alcoholic in our life, its a smart plan for life period. Its the way we should be conducting our lives, with or without an addict. Please keep coming back and share and read the material and you will see how much better your life can become. Luv, Bettina

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

((Paula))

Sorry to hear things are difficult. It is my experience that you communicating your angers and frustrations can help place them in their proper perspective. It is truely hard to gage the rights and wrongs of a partner's behavior when I, myself, am affected. So I communicate -- to my Family Group, to my sponsor, and after getting all of my fears and futuretrips out, then to my partner. I can then tell her my concerns without taking her inventory. I try to remember that she is doing the best she can with her tools and skills. It is my job to take care of me and my happiness and serenity. That means getting to meetings.

I know it is scary when children are involved. I would encourage getting them to some meetings, also. If they are not open to it, then possibly you can have some open/honest conversations. For me and the children in my life, I make it a priority to let them know I am "emotionally available" and "safe" to talk to about their feelings.

My experience shows me that my life, and the life of others that I contact, is greatly improved when I focus on myself and my behaviors. When I am working my program, the chaos and bad behavior is diminished and I am able to put the cards on the table (keep my boundaries and not accept unacceptable behavior).

take care of yourself,
cj

nmike · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((paula)))))

Somethings are unacceptable. But the decisions are yours in the end. Sit quietly and listen for your High Power's input. Then you will know it is a good decision.

In support,
Nancy

paulaque · Member

Have just had a lightning bolt of awareness!

Eldest son has always been the scapegoat. Have always had a problem with hubby's abuse toward him and could never figure why he was doing it.

Last week I set a boundry with hubby about work problems (son works with him). Said that I would no longer be available to fix things work-related.

This week he assaults our son, at work.

It's actually a more effective way of controlling me than if he'd assaulted me AND he gains fear and control over our son.

I do go to ftf meetings and am working my programme to the best of my ability, I just can't see a solution to this problem.

If I hand my kids over to my HP and leave them open to abuse from hubby then I feel responsible and guilty if it goes wrong.

I keep handing the solution over and all I come up with is that I need to leave.

But, and there's a big but, my kids will loose the chance to truly know their Dad (if he stays in recovery) and they will loose a way of life because we currently live in the country.

Which is better, a Father with the potential to wreak havock or none at all?

My Dad's 4 years in recovery and the only real difference it has made to me is that i don't have to pick him off the floor anymore or assume his responsibilities (my mum's disabled)

I'm stuck, stuck, stuck.

-- Edited by paulaque at 20:23, 2008-06-26

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Here are some ways people manipulate (you shouldn't show this to the A). Persuasion principles

Here are some ways people manipulate (you shouldn't show this to the A).

Persuasion principles