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This has been sort of an ongoing disagreement I've been seeing occurring between my sponsor and a couple other Al-Anon members whom I respect, as well, in my Al-Anon meetings.
One member who is also a sponsor says us Al-Anoners have the disease of alcoholism just as much as the A's in our lives do.
My sponsor says, we don't have it, we're just affected by the disease.
I'm on the fence with this one, personally. I think it's all a matter of perception, but I notice my sponsor and the other person really trying to make their point hit home as being THE way the disease is to be viewed.
While I love my sponsor, I'm actually more inclined to lean the direction of the other person in the viewpoint of the disease of alcoholism. It is called, after all, the "family" disease of alcoholism. And this person made a pretty good point in one of the meetings that if we were just affected by it, you'd think putting distance between ourselves and the A's in our lives would then "cure" us, and we'd no longer have a problem any more... but 99 times out of 100 most of us find ourselves tangled up yet again with more addicts/alcoholics no matter how much distance we put between ourselves and the old A's.
Does having the disease make one an alcoholic, though?
This is what I was thinking when this disagreement came up in my head today...
I just personally think we all have the disease of human nature. I don't think there's one "normal" person out there on this planet. And if you can point one out to me, I also doubt that my perception of what's "normal" is going to match your perception of "normal".
In any case, the "disease" of human nature in my context is obsession and addiction. So many of us have addictions to certain things - it's just that some of us maybe have "healthier" addictions than others, but it's still an addiction, nonetheless.
For me, I have many obsessions/addictions: food, the need to control, perfectionism, creativity, etc. (just to name a few). Note not all of these are necessarily "bad" (at least not in my perception).
When it comes to Al-Anoners versus Alcoholics, I find differences and common ground all at the same time.
Fine, alcoholic's addiction of choice is alcohol. Al-Anoner's addiction of choice is perfectionism, fix-it-ism (that's an official word! I'm submitting it to wikipedia as we speak!), and random paths of obsession.
Where's the common ground? I see all too often both the A's and Al-Anoners get wrapped up in the same stuff - thinking about the past, worrying about the future and never just living in the present moment. A's just use alcohol to cope while Al-Anoner's likely use everything except alcohol or drugs to cope and still don't manage.
But I don't think ONLY substance abusers and their families are affected with this - I honestly think it's just human nature, and until we find a spiritual path to ground us to a point where we stop depending on outside influences to bring us serenity, it's going to keep on happening, whether alcohol, drugs, food, gambling, shopping, etc. is around or not.
Whew.
Just a lot rattling through my brain today.
In any case, this argument came up in my head because I saw it happening in one of my face to face meetings and thought it was kind of interesting.
I was addicted to my AH. I was as addicted to him as he was to crack. The disease of addiction is within the mind. An A can put down the drink and get sicker than when they were drinking. I have the mental part of the disease. It has made me sick and crazy.
I know a couple of people that I would classify as "normal" (if I could just get a job classifing people......) and they have no overt obsessions. They get over things quite easily or with healthy attitudes. Things I never learned growing up. They might have a "thing" ( maybe everyone does) but they will give up their "thing" if they see it is causing them or those they love harm. Like their "thing" is always having the heat set at 85 degrees. Their partner sits and sweats. They talk it out and person one agrees to turn down the heat. They don't throw a tantrum, justify, manipulate, guilt the other person into getting their way. And then they just let it go.....
I was adopted as a baby into a family that was dysfunctional and had active alcoholism. I got my non-identifying information about my birth parents and it said my maternal grandfather was an alcoholic. So, the disease runs in my blood and my heart.
I believe it is a disease. The beauty of the program is we get to believe what we want to. No one tells me it is a certain way. They tell me what they did and what helped them and then I am free to do the same or not. I think this is a great topic! It is going to make me think and I am interested to see what others believe.
My grandmother, a long time Al-anoner (a lifer so to speak) would say that it is a family disease and that we suffer just as much as the A... our symptoms are different but we also have the disease because it affects us...
It does remind me though of when I was going through treatment for breast cancer... We (I) were diagnosed at the age of 25, literally 2 months after my AH and I were married... Talk about the trials and tribulations of the first year of marriage...
Throughout treatment and to this day... both AH and I refer to it as "WE" were diagnosed with cancer... "WE" were in treatment.... When "WE" went through chemotherapy... Although I must confess, he takes no ownership of the lumpectomy :)... that one is all mine...
But with chemo... he was there holding my hand while I puked... He bathed me after surgery... and everything else that comes with a cancer diagnosis, he was as present for it as I was... I may have bore the physical affects but I would definitely say that from an emotional perspective, a spiritual perspective... we are dead even...
I think alcoholism is the same way... Once you have someone in your life who is an alcoholic, it changes you and how you view and deal with the world for the rest of your life... whether you are in recovery or not...
Semantically... I don't know... but those are just my thought...
(((Thanks Aloha)))... you've really given me something to chew on this evening...
I know there is some discussion among the people who decide these things about codependency being an actual disease, but personally I believe it is. I also believe it is our mirror image of the disease of alcoholism. I believe they go hand in hand. I am not an alcoholic. But I believe that the affect of alcoholism on me is codependency. Codependency can be caused by other things as well, but it just happens that mine is caused mostly by being in close proximity to alcoholics much of my life.
Anyway that is how I see it. My view isn't exactly set in stone though. It has changed a bit as I have grown in my recovery. I also see that we all have a similar, but different route to get here from. Thing is, I think it is interesting, but probably doesn't matter a hoot one way or the other. I'm here. I know I'm sick. I want to get better. I don't care what it's called. LOL
Cool conversation though.
In recovery,
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
"One member who is also a sponsor says us Al-Anoners have the disease of alcoholism just as much as the A's in our lives do."
If I had a sponsor tell me this, I'd tell that sponsor to hit the road!!! I love a man who is an alcoholic; I am not addicted to him or anyone or anything else. Yes, I am affected by his drinking, but share his disease??? Nonsense!
"My sponsor says, we don't have it, we're just affected by the disease."
Your sponsor is realistic and correct in his/her thinking. Your sponsor probably also realizes that not all of us are sick or crazy, or codependent, or enabling. (Oh my God, Diva must be sick and crazy and codependent and enabling because she denies being what we all are. That's an example of convolution of thought processes caused by sponsors who make stupid proclamations.)
I can see where calling alcoholism a "family disease" makes some sense; even though I question the use of the word, "disease." The phrase "family disease" means family members are often adversely affected by the alcoholism. Not that every member of the family is an alcoholic because one drinks.
Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 03:05, 2008-05-20
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
why does it have to be one way or the other? Don't you still deal with it the same way by working on the things you can control and using your HP to guide you through. I don't know the answer, for myself or others. I just know that I can work on myself and if that should help someone else then what a great benefit for them. No matter who we are the A or in Alanon, we all need help and support, so does it really matter which one we are as long as we seek those things out and feel that we are progressing? Definitely food for thought though, and I will feast on it for a little while. Just because that knowledge may help me in my ongoing quest for recovery.
What is normal? Normal is a setting on the washing machine.
Personally I don't think we have the disease of alcoholism but we are just as sick or sometimes sicker than the alcoholic. If we have the disease of alcoholism then we are in the wrong meeting when we go to an Al-Anon meeting. Each group is in their particular meeting to find healing for their particular disease. I have seen more AA and NA members that needed to be in Al-Anon and Naranon meetings than I have seen Al-Anon and Naranon members that needed to be in AA and NA.
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Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it.
I got the !!whew!! part. Been there done that with the very same results. It turns out to be a lot of head work for those who are analytical.
In early program in the area I was at we use to read the AMA definition of the disease of alcoholism which ended with the choices; sobriety, insanity or death. That definition also included how the spouse, family, friends and associates of the alcoholic were affected and ended with we had much the same choices as the alcoholic, serenity, insanity or death. In college the facts were further widened by the study on genetics of alcoholism...who is, who becomes, dna, physical, psycological, etc make ups and propensity or the predisposition to active alcoholism. After indepth study we arrived at the realization that we the spouses, family, friends and assoiciates of the alcoholic can and do inherit all the markers of the disease on all levels. We inherit the attitudes, behaviors and thought patterns and emotions of those that came before us. How could we not!! To be born and raised or to have intensely lived in the disease forms individuals to exist in it and it does that very very well. I was interested in the question do we have the propensity to become alcoholic along with the propensity to only take the enablers role or both.
I am one of many examples of both. I married alcoholics with the thought that my participation in their lives would somehow be better for them and one of the ways I attempted to make their lives better was to teach them how to drink properly without any clue about what alcoholism was and wasn't.
Today I am a life time member of the Al-Anon Family Groups Worldwide who desires never to drink alcohol again.
Jerry! What do you do with those of us who do not fit neatly into one of the molds? I was not reared by alcoholics - none in my family. I never dated, to my knowledge, an alcoholic; and never married one. I knew my second husband for three years before we married and in all that time he never drank. One day I got the shock of my life when I came home and found him passed out. From there all hell broke loose. Two years of him sunken into the depths and I not having a clue which way to turn. Off I trotted to an AlAnon meeting. I have been faced with his addiction for nearly 9 years now. But i have never lost sight of my self worth, my dignity, or my sanity.
Best wishes to you as always,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
