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How do you "detach" w love? I have only been able to make it to 1 meeting.....so a newcomer here......... I wrote last week about allowing my 58 yr old bro (who I thought had hit rock bottom) to move in w/ my family (hubby of 25 yrs, 9 yr old, 14 yr old and my 80 yr old mother w/ alzheimers). Shouldn't have done that! :) He did get a job (can't drive due to multiple dui's) near my house so it was convenient. Now, he's gone out w a guy from work and they got falling down drunk and went to their place of employment and got into a fist fight....( his slacks were torn and pants/legs bloody....real mature,,,,,,,,, Sooooo, he's lost his job and is in the remorse mode. I have been battling spells of crying/sadness and anger. It is so sad to see them groveling for mercy so to speak. He is acting so great w/ the kids (il.e. manipulation and I am not handling it at all..................I am going to try to make it to meeting Friday night, but in the meantime, how do handle the emotions /sadness of it all> I gave him a letter that I had written before this episode w/ boundaries, but he hasn't mentioned it. In the letter I told him that we would NOT tolerate his bring/hiding beer/liquor in our home which we knew he was doing. I also told him that if he brought it in again or even smelled of it, that he would have to find another place to live. I told him that he had to tell me that he wanted help. He hasn't said a word.......Is this usual? Like ignoring it will make it go away? Just thinking here, but will he ever mention this letter you think? I don't know what else to do, but I know I have to protect my family. 'My son emailed me from school today saying :
I am worried about uncle ..... I Know what he did was wrong but i hope he can get over it... do you think he will cuz he can do something with his life better than drinking all the time... he needs to stop!!!!! dont u think
My kids love their uncle, and they don't understand how we cannot give him another chance................ oh, well, if you guys have any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
First thing that comes to my mind as I read you sharing is that yes it is completely normal for him to ignore your letter. My AH always ignored everything hoping it would go away. Even 8 good months of sobriety and he is still fighting the automatic habit of ignoring anything that is the least bit uncomfortable to handle.
What you can do is formulate a plan B to back up your promise. I'm not sure why you want him to tell you he wants help. That is a manipulation of his recovery and you have no control over that, but you have the right to say no alcohol or drinking/being drunk in your house.
The best thing you can do for you is get to that meeting and pick up some literature and start reading and working this program. It will give you the skills to help protect yourself and your family from the affects of this disease.
The next thing I would do after I had some literature and knowledge of alcoholism is to sit the kids down and explain to them about alcoholism as a disease. They need to know that nobody can get him to stop drinking but him, and that he is a person with a disease that makes him think he doesn't have a problem. They need to understand what enabling is and how an A is perfectly capable of managing their own lives, but only if we all stop interfering. I had this kind of talk with my 7 yo son and you'd be surprised how much he understands. Kids are quick. You might even get online and go to the American Medical Assoc. web sight. I've heard they have info on how the medical community views alcoholism and addiction. I haven't yet had the time to look it up myself though. It's a been gonna.
I would look for an Alateen group for the older one, too.
As far as handling the emotions/sadness of it all, you handle it the same way you would if a family member has a progressive disease. You cry a lot. You rage at the world a bit. You try to let out all that emotion and not let it get bottled up and become resentment. And you get to the first meeting you can.
Detaching with love gets easier as you practice it. For me it just means being able to separate my emotions from the problems the Aism creates, so I can think clearly and act, not react.
So that's my bit of experience. We like to say take what you like and leave the rest. Hope it helps. Just remember you are not alone. Keep coming back here and read, ask questions, vent. It helps a lot.
In recovery,
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
You got the "love" part down already. The detaching part takes work and a while and since the whole family is involved in the project you're bound to trip over it from time to time. Give yourself time and meetings cause that is where all of the tools of the program are learned sitting around in a circle sharing our experiences, strengths and hopes with others. We grow and grow lots. We usually get stuff wrong to start with and that is why we are called newbies; we're new at everything and have to unlearn the old habits and learn new one. One of the parts of detachments that you will learn is how not to get caught up in "their" (the alcoholics) consequences. Your brother is 58 years old and now it is your time to get caught up in his consequences. It was the consequences of his drinking that put him on your doorstep and faced you with the question of can I stay, will you help me with my miserable life? Usually it is after the face that we say to our- selves..."I shoulda said...." Hindsight is always the best teacher isn't it? You might come up with , "I shoulda said, I'd really like to and I don't know how to deal with alcoholism. I don't know anything about the disease you suffer from and how about letting me have several years to learn about it from profressionals and others before I give you my answer." I would say that or something like that today and when it really happened I said "Surely and I have a couple of extra bedrooms for your kids and room for the dog. You can park your car in the garage I can leave my car on the curb out in the weather and while you are at it you and the kids can take the first showers in the morning...I like cold one!!. I'll have breakfast ready for you and the family and you can eat while I'm showering." From there it went "Listen...you want to drink. Well let me show you how it's done. Sit down at that table and bartender...." Some of these parts are real for me and if you listen real closely you can here the gurgle of my life going down the drain along with my mind, body, spirit and emotions. Yes there's some dark disease humor and sarcasm in those little experiences however the hindsight is much more healthy on the person and the family that becomes involved with an alcoholic in the house.
Your brother might be in the "Oooops" stage. Letting you know he got the letter and the information might be like him telling himself, "I messed up!" "I told myself I wasn't going to do that again and I was on the outs...near homelessness and this is my last bed and breakfast." He maybe in the fear, shame and guilt stages of the disease which happen over such a long period of time. Alcoholics are humans with human reactions and feelings and a life threatening disease. It is taking him down and taking down his family and he still can't shake the compulsion to drink no matter what.
So now you're attached. You have given him notice that the attachment is temporay and conditional. As was previously said, Don't make conditions that are not enforcable. This disease will take you and your promises to the edge of the cliff everytime. It will push on your love and compassion and make promises that it will not follow thru on because it knows you want those promises and his miracle. He doesn't get a miracle until he doesn't want to drink more than he wants to. He doesn't get a miracle until he gets a power greater than his bottle. He doesn't get a miracle until the pain of his drinking becomes worse than the pain of his not drinking. This is not cute program talk. I was born and raised in this disease have been married to an addict, alcoholic-addict, engaged to an alcoholic, several relationships with alcoholics, am a 29 year consistent member of the Al-Anon Family Groups who also wants never to drink again so I am a 20 year member of AA with 29 years sober, I am college educated in substance abuse and addiction and a past Behavioral Health Therapist in a Central CA. recovery program working with adults, adolescents, families, friends, in patient, out patient blah blah blah. It takes everything I ever learned in this program to have a life worth living for myself and relationships...many with alcoholics and addicts that don't feel like mother nature coming unglued or the most massive depressive events ever created.
I got into the program. I got to as many meetings as I could in the first 90 days. I got literature, (read it all and more), listened, listened, listened and asked more questions that had yet to be answered on the disease of alcoholism (therefore college). I followed as many suggestions as I could possibly imagine and kept the widest open mind that could be asked for.
Today I say, "detachment is the greatest artform I have ever seen." "Love is the complete and total acceptance of any other human being for exactly who they are." and "No you cannot live in my house until I have more information on what that will cost me and my family. Can you honestly tell me what has brought you to this condition of your life?"
That's about it in a nutshell. I am glad you found us at Miracles in Progress. This could save your life and the life of your family. Now get to as many meetings as you can in the next 90 days. Get as much literature as you can at those meetings and read it all. Listen, listen, listen; and keep coming back."
The Alcoholic in my life growing up was my mother's brother. He was a fall down, smelly, wet brain drunk. He never got recovery although one time he went to a detox. That was hellish to see. He was so dependent on alcohol that when he withdrew they had to keep him on some serious meds so that he could function (go to the bathroom, eat, just the basics. he was too far gone for anything more than that). He got out of there and went right back to drinking.
I loved my drunk uncle. My mother taught me how to dump his hidden vodka bottles mostly out and fill them with water. She taught me that he was very sick, She taught me that he came first no matter that it was embarrassing to have him living with us so I stopped having friends over. She taught me that an alcoholic and their disease should be catered to, taken care of and enabled. And with all this love from me, my mother and my grandmother, he still died of the disease. He bled out of every orifice of his body. Total organ shut down. His brain was so mush that it stopped controling his organs. They couldn't do anything for him because his throat was like tissue paper. They couldn't even make him comfortable. It was horrifying to watch. He was 55 years old.
He used to say that he like being the way he was. Unemployed and drunk all the time. No life what so ever. His kids wouldn't speak to him. All he had was me, my mother and my grandmother and his best drinking buddy (who also lived with us). That made NO sense to me at all. He walked around with a shattered shoulder (from a fall when he was drunk) for the last 8 years of his life because he would have had to stop drinking for a couple weeks for them to do the surgery and he wasn't willing to do that. Eventually, he physically wasn't able to do it.
After I was in the program for a bit, I understood that he didn't really want to be like that. No one woud want to be like that. He had a disease. And my mother and grandmother would tell him all the time to stop drinking. Ultimatiums, threats, serious talks, they tried it all. So, I bet, after a while he started to believe that he must want to be like that because if he didn't then he'd stop. They told him "if you loved me you'd stop." He had to justify why he couldn't stop. He knew he loved us but he couldn't stop. So, this must be what he loved to do. And up to a point I'm sure it was. But when he was peeing blood and losing his second family and watching his own mother suffering, and still he couldn't stop, well, that is this disease.
There is hope for everyone. But there is also a point of no turning back. I hated my mother for taking him in and enabling him and teaching me how to enable. That was for 2 or 3 years when I was 10-13. There was no reason to expose me to the effects of an active alcoholic. I never hated him. He was obviously sick. I hated my mother who had no disease that I could see. She was sane and sober. But her actions were sicker than that of my uncle. Would he have found sobriety on his own? I doubt it. But maybe. He was never allowed to fall and find out. He was always caught.
When I married my A I knew his brother (all of them actually) was a drunk and I made him promise that his brother would never live with us. No matter what. I was NOT going to do that to my kids. Point became mute because my H was an A and in comparison, I think I would have much rather lived with his brother! LOL!
Anyway, sometimes we think we are doing the most loving thing when in reality we are just doing more harm all the way around. Follow your heart and keep comming, the answers are here. And the peace and love are here.
This is way too important to go by just whatever any of us can share here.
First let me say you must be doing something very very right with your children if you have a teenage son that emailed you about family problems and his feelings!! That is amazing for teenagers in any family!!! Plus it sounded like care and concern not anger..(it also sounded like he was trying to communicate alot about how he felt/ fear etc?? even in that short email- what a blessing to have a child like that. What a wonderful mother you must be.
I encourage you to find a strong long time alanon person and get some direction from a family therapist.This is your children's emotional health at risk.
There is a great worksheet on detachment. If you want to pm me with an email address I will try to get it to you.- I need to work on using it more!!
Sounds like to your son is really reaching out for direction on how to feel and boundries. Exactly what many adults in alanon struggle with.
I would look for a plan "B" for your brother (based on your sons emotional health if nothing else)!
I would go to Alanon meetings several times a week. Focus on my son and if I felt it (alateen) were a safe environment I would send him to alateen if not I would work to help him understand how we can love uncle but not want the disease to hurt our family.
The email from your son really pulled at my heart. I feel he is asking questions in that email that he may not even know what he is asking.. typical alanon like me...
I live with the shell of a wonderful man that is emty from the results of being raised around alcohol. His lack of emotional health and his drinking are why I am in Alanon. I see daily his lack of ability to deal with life and relationships and it breaks my heart. Not just his struggles with me emotionally, he can't be open and honest at work, he can't listen and communicate with others, his boundries are all messed up. He can't tell a "healthy" person from "unhealthy" actually gravitates towards all the unhealthy people and gives them respect and anyone successful in life he has great mistrust for. The list goes on and on.
He has left customers hanging on one small issue at he end of a major project just becase he can't deal with the "closure" at the end of a project. He has thrown seveal good business relationships down the drain for no good reason...
He is extreamly underemployed because he can not be honest and open and think clearly and communicate details and ideas. He is underemployed because long term, repeat communication and trust are foggy for him, he is underemployed because he can't trust/relate to any man that looks like he is not an Alcoholic!!
When faced with an interpersonal issue work or family or me..His first question to himself is "what should I tell them" with no regard whatsoever for "what is the truth". He doesn't even see htis as being a lie. It's cover, cover, cover, hide hide hide, make it look as good as possible and run and hide if there is even any doubt it might not be perfect (few things in life are "perfect") so he is hiding all the time.
This is only the beginning of what being raised with alchohol did for him.
Jorb, they are heavy into the "ignore it and it will go away" syndrome. Common behavior.
Trick is this; do not make boundaries you are not willing and able to keep. They are so manipulative and smart. They can sense our "wussiness" a mile away. It is time for you to sit down with him, have a meaningful talk and set the boundaries. If he breaks a boundary, he must pay the consequences, whatever they may be. I know you love your brother, but he hasn't the right to come into your home and cause chaos. You, kids, and hubby come first.
Do try to get to AlAnon meetings. They will help you see that you are doing brother no favor by enabling his alcoholism. At the end of the day, you'll all be better off once you learn how to detach.
Come back here often.
Diva
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Well we have all done stuff with an alcoholic we shouldn't have done. We have also all probably cushioned the fall for them. I know I did that for years until the resentment got to me. If you like you can go to the chat room here anytime you feel overwhelmed, there are people there who are great at listening and who have walked the walk. The meetings here are awesome. I used to go tiwce a day in the beginning. The more you can hear your story, identify and look at what others did will help. It takes some time to walk the way.
We make a plan b to look at what do we need to do "if and when" something happens. Sometimes that is tough going. I made a plan b to leave the alcoholic. I spent a lot of time on it. I have to say it was far from perfect but when the time came I was able to leave. So what would it look like for him to have to leave, is there a detox center near you, is there a program (residential) he could go to. Would that be an option. What are the other options he could do? This plan b doesn't come straight away. Of course we all want to say, well if he does this I'll do x y z but doing it is tough going so you have to look at how you will, when you will and put it out there. There are also plan b's for when and if the children become more concerned.
There are lot of tools available in al anon, one is to have very low expectations of the Alcholic. Chances are if he is not in a program , he will drink again. Expect that, not in a morbid awful pessimistic way but its a way to come out of denial. Denial is a hard thing to come out of, denial keeps us stuck in wishing, hoping, obsessing, remonstrating with ourselves. Being in reality is painful but in Al anon there is a way to do it with the positive. Obviously you have much to be proud of in your life, you didn't cause this man's drinking, you can't control it and you can't cure it so that let's you off the hook in feeling you must "fix" him. He must in time "fix" himself, you just don't have to buy in anymore that means you have to be "heroic" for him.
Keep posting, keep coming back. Be kind to yourself!
