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I've been in this program a year and pretty sure I know the answer, but then I resort back to my controlling ways and think that this situation may be "different". Yeah, right. If nothing else, typing it out her may clarify things for me.
My brother is an A. I haven't posted much about him because I have been to consumed with the rest of my life, but I think of him daily. In a nutshell, he went from being an engineer/devoted family man with a wonderful wife and 5 kids to a pot-smoking/drinking man who can't keep a job and who's kids want nothing to do with him. His wife went from being a home-schooling mom, to a teacher, and is now in the corporate world to support her kids. She kicked my bro out and is doing well. My bro, however, soon won't have a place to live (he's been house-sitting a house that is for sale), and if he doesn't pay child support this month will get his truck taken away and then go to jail. This once straight-laced man has a police record now because he would not let my sil leave with the kids one night. He held my niece back from the car (kidnapping charge that was dropped) and tampered with their vehicle. He ended up being neg for alcohol but they think his scary behavior was a result of the combination of anti-depressent/sleep meds he was on.
As a result of the police charge, he had a short jail stay and then was required to go to parenting classes, dom violence classes (36 wks) and alcohol education. The system seems pretty tough, but really seemed to downplay the alcohol/drug problem. I do not understand why they do not mandate rehab or AA . Anyhow...
I haven't talked to him since December. He made me crazy with his blaming and rambling on about "respect" and "forgiveness" and I had enough of that in my life. He also talked to my AH husband and believed what he heard. As a result he told our family members (my bros and cousin) that my marriage break-up was all my fault since I refused to forgive my AH for his drinking and drugging. Nothing about the g/f, of course. Well, recently my mom set him straight about that detail and he has been calling me. I finally returned his call when I was alone and had limited time (in the car) and we had a very simple conversation about him getting a job, his "record", his potential for going to jail, and my job situation. He actually was very rational and seemed "normal", and is in denial about his marriage situation as talks as if they are going to end up back together.
I speak to my sil a lot. As time goes on, her love for my bro is fading and she is realizing how much peace her life has w/o him. She is not in al-anon but sure acts like it. Much has been passed on to her by her mother. She told me that he wants her to call off thier legal separation. She is not willing to do that and doesn't want to interfere with the courts, but knows him going to jail is not going to help matters any. She said she'd be willing to "call the dogs off" if he were to go to rehab, for at least then there would be an effort for him to get help and potentailly change, but she is not naive enough to think that is the total answer. But, I don't think she is going to be the one to tell him that.
Since my bro has been reaching out I am wondering if there is anything I can say that would lead him to making the decision on his own to just go get help. Would it be totally counter-productive for my sil to use this situation to get my bro in rehab? I was able to take advantage of the circumstances in my life to encourage my AH to initiate help and I don't regret it. Ultimately, I know I can't make him sober but overall I know he is better off today and seeds are being planted. People do interventions all the time. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Is it always the right thing to just stand back when?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Blessings, Lou
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
There's a difference between planting seeds and giving ultimatums. I see nothing wrong with seed planting because it is ultimately up to the A to move forward with a decision and seek help. With an ultimatum the A is being forced and/or manipulated which probably isn't going to produce the desired result.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I think.... if your brother chooses rehab with the intention of saving his family/marriage, it won't likely work..... he's not broken down enough to the point of knowing this is way beyond that, and it is a life or death situation for him.... At the two rehabs my ex-A went to, she was told that she had to choose sobriety for herself, and even the love of her family/kids etc., was not enough to keep her sober....
I also think..... for what it's worth.... that your brother likely knows he needs to get sober if he stands ANY chance of reconcilliation, and really don't know why or what you could say to reinforce that..... He's a grown man, and it sounds like you are trying to control his recovery (with all due respect, as you are obvously doing it with a loving heart).
Just my two cents
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
We've tried everything with my A-bf... nothing so far has worked. I can't blame you for wanting to keep trying, though. I remember feeling that way, too.
While you can't make them get sober, I don't think it does any harm to mention it. Once the seed is planted it's up to them to make it grow. I think you can do this in a loving kind way. You know giving them ultimatums doesn't work. But telling him that he wouldn't be alone in this journey or something like that can't hurt. Who knows? Interventions (even done by AA members) don't work that often. To me any day they give sobriety the tiniest thought is a good thing. Kind of reminds me when I first came to Alanon. Wasn't sure about it. I didn't think I needed it, but slowly I got myself into it. Good luck. Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
The thing about ultimatums is that they don't work unless they do. I realize that this is contrary to alanon teaching, but it's something I have observed, both in my own case, and in the shares of many sober alcoholics.
MY husband went to rehab and put a real effort into sobering up, because his job gave him an ultimatum. Often I have heard sober and recovering A's say that they came to AA because their wife told them they either sobered up or she was gone.
Alanon tells us that this doesn't work. I think the reason it worked in those cases, is that the A was in fact ready to get help, but just needed that one little extra kick. I suspect that pride comes into it to, in a wierd way. If they can say that they were forced to come, they can keep that one little speck of pride, just until they get through those doors of the rehab, and then set the burden down.
Thing is, you can't tell, by looking from the outside, the difference between an A in the full flow of his disease, nowhere near recovery, and one who is just kept from bottom by the thinnest shell of denial.
This is why we can't use the ultimatum as a tool of manipulation. It must be the true statement of what we will or will not put up with, and we must be perfectly willing to stand by it. The ultimatum 'works', not by making the A do anything, but by freeing us - we can say "I told him what he needed to do to keep me, he didn't do it, so I am gone". The price of him continuing to drink is clearly spelled out - if he is willing to pay it, so be it.
So, all of that said - I think that letting your brother know, straight out, that there is not a snowball's chance of saving his marriage unless he dives head first into recovery, is just giving him information he has the right to have. It should come from his wife, and not you, but I suppose that does not really matter so much. Most likely this will make no difference, but if he is ready to come in anyway, this might be the excuse he needs. I'd keep in mind that saying something once is giving information, saying it over and over again is nagging.
Thanks for the wonderful responses. I think I just need to pray that what I am supposed to do will come to me. My sis-in-law called last night and said my bro is somewhat desperate. He wrote up a new child support agreement significantly reducing the monthly amount and wants to say that because he quick-claimed her the house, it is a "gift" so she shouldn't owe her any money. He paid her last child support with her tax money. Sad... It is getting out of the money obligations that would get him to rehab, just because he doesn't have any.
I agree that you never know what it will take. When my Ah signed himself up for the diversion program he really seemed relieved, but claimed it was so he would have a 3rd party on his side showing he is clean. Whatever... bottom line is he wanted to save his license and his business.
I have a good friend who's husband filled up her car with gas, took all her money and credit cards and told her don't come back until you go to rehab. She made it to rehab albeit through an urgent care clinic and a whole bottle of pills on the way. She's been clean for 4 yrs now and claims that she knows without a doubt that her husband wasn't messing around, and she'd be gone and probably in jail if she so much considers taking a pill or a drink again. Truly scared sober, and she admits it and is grateful.
I think the greatest task for me, if I do talk to my bro, is to do it in a "loving manner". It wouldn't be an ultimatum, rather a suggestion as a new path for him. Sounds like a good idea, but I tend to sound rightous - who me? - and then get really nutty when I start talking to an A who spins me round in circles.
I love him but can't save him. Yep, that's it. So many have reached out to him but he has an excuse for everything. He is paving his own course.
Blessings, Lou
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
