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I need some ESH on this guys.... how do you deal with an A who's not in denial anymore, but still isn't exactly in recovery?
My A fiance is going to therapy and genuinely trying to work out his issues and figure out his disease, etc. Of course he won't go to AA. There's a million excuses, but the bottom line is that he just won't go. And, yes, I know I can't control him and MAKE him go (no matter how much I want to.) I thought "oh, whatever, therapy is better than nothing." He's expressed interest in AlAnon (since he is an adult child of an A -- go figure!) but we haven't gone yet.
So, he's trying. Great. But then he drinks!! And I can't call it "relapsing" because he hasn't had more than a week sober. It goes in waves... a few months sober, then drink, then a few weeks, then drink, then a few days... you get the idea. We're in the few days stage now. Last night was a bad one.
I'm working on me and removing myself from the situation when he drinks. I still get angry, but I forgive myself for it and try to work through it or distract myself with my sewing or writing or studying. I've even figured out the formula to sleep through his insanely loud drunk snoring. Yay! (Seriously, for me that was a big problem.) Yeah, I'm still kind of cold to him while he's drinking and I literally gag when he breathes on me with that evil beer breath. But I'm making progress with detatchment.
Then all that serentity falls apart when he tries talking to me about his disease!!!
All day today he was saying how awful he feels and how he shouldn't have been drinking. I said something like "yeah, your life has become unmanagable." And he jokingly responds with "No it's not! I can keep a job!" (This is one of his stock excuses for staying a drunk, along with "it's only beer!") When I don't respond to that, he apologises and says that he's just joking. You can imagine that I feel 100% better. Yeah, right.
Later, at dinner, he tries to talk to me about his "recovery": why is he still drinking when he knows he has a problem, he wants to get better but doesn't know how, if only he could see his psychologist, but she's on vacation... blah blah...
What the heck am I supposed to say to him?! I'm not his sponsor! I'm not a trained psychologist! I'm TRYING to let go of control, but then he keeps handing it back to me, under the excuse of "sharing"!!! Or am I over-thinking it and he's just looking for support from his fiance?!? Aaaaa! I'm so mixed up!
So, yeah. I need some advice. How the heck am I supposed to respond? How can I support him in recovery but learn to detach and take care of myself? I'm so far gone in my own codependence that I don't even know the difference between control and support, I guess!
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"It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish."
~ J. R. R. Tolkien
Unless I misunderstood your post, I don't see where there is any recovery on his part to be supported.
You know, this may be as good as it ever gets. Only you know what you are willing to settle for in life.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease, and it never gets better.
I know, for me, I deserve so much better and won't sell myself short again.
My EXAH's second wife got to spend her marriage to him watching him deteriorate once he hit the clinical stages of AIDS and she attended his funeral last year. He was 47, and never found recovery.
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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
oh hon, there is no recovery here. A's love to gab and drag us in. It is no fun to be alone in your misery.
In my experience, I made it clear his disease was his problem,not mine. I could do nothing anyway. Believe me he knows you cannot help him. I found if I did say anything, he would use it against me later.
So if he said something I would say, yes it is a horrible disease, as we know only the person with the disease can do anything about it.
I got to where I said, it is not my problem. He had to own it, I was not going to enable him in any way.
This disease is so crafty it will try to pull us in, in so many ways.
When I stopped engaging about it at all, the disease got bored and he left.
To this day, I want nothing to do with his illness.
You sound like you're making progress even while the disease is raging. Atta girl or maybe woman..lady? I like your awareness and action...good job. You're witnessing a character of the disease that is common for alcoholics who are not convinced. This is as close as he gets today. Tomorrow more pain that might move him even closer to a more solid recovery not matter where he goes to find it. His justifications and excuses are necessary, normal and needed not to convince you but to convince him against all the evidence that he really is alcoholic and alcoholism is controling his entire life.
Saracasm, anger, spite, anything negative as a response from you won't be supportive so don't let your eyes do it; your mouth do it; or your body do it. Any practicing alcoholic will throw it back at you in spades, blame you and your attitude for his drinking and move just that much higher from his bottom and that much farther away from his HP.
What do you say to him after he is whining and justifying and bsing himself? "Sorry Hon, I can't help you. Try calling a sponsor." Of course that might be most frightful if he understands at all that you cannot bs a bser. It's okay to let him suffer and move toward more pleasants stuff for yourself.
I totally agree with Jerry F.. A good answer to his "sharing" is "Sorry Hon, I can't help you. Try calling a sponsor."
My husband used to us the job excuse also to prove to me that life was not unmanagable. I finally said, "It's unfortunate that you equate the totallity life with a job."
These can become your standard answers if you choose. Eventually, it either sinks in or they stop because they know the answer that's coming. If it doesn't stop...well, you have a standard answer.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
(((everybody))) Thank you, guys for your advice and sharing and listening!
My standard answers will now put his disease back into his hands. I think that, deep down, I knew that I had to do that, but I had to have someone else give me permission! How codependent! LOL So from now on, I'm saying "I love you, but I can't help you."
I'm also committing myself to more f2f meetings, even if I'm in the middle of finals and planning and packing and moving in 2 months. That's 2 more months of help FOR ME.
Christy: I really like your response of "I'm sorry that you equate life with having a job!" That's brilliant!
(((((babysteps))))) We can do this.
Jerry F: Your ESH is really helpful, as always! Thanks again! I love the idea that "today this is as close as he gets." One day at a time, right? It works for both of us!
__________________
"It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish."
~ J. R. R. Tolkien
My A is right there with yours. (Are you sure they're not swapping notes somehow?)
Very seriously, my A has told me he has a "drinking problem". He would like to stop, but sometimes he doesn't want to because he loves his beer. He, too, has told me "I fail to see how my life has become unmanageable! I still have a job, I can pay rent!"
D.E.N.I.A.L.
Like you, I cannot play therapist or sponsor with him. I've told him I can't help him there. It's all his choice.
My AH refuses to go to AA. It scares him. He doesn't say that, but I know it does, because he will be forced to face his problems head on in that program, and it's just too much for him. He's Mr. Ignore-it-and-it'll-go-away. So what's his AA replacement? A counselor. This counselor does specialize in substance abuse, but he tells me that every time he talks with her about AA and how he disagrees with it, he tells me she agrees with him. I'm not sure about that... but what I do see is he's found a counselor who will not push him to deal with the uncomfortable stuff... either she knows what she's doing or she doesn't. I think perhaps she's being very slow in getting him to open up because she probably recognizes he's going to tuck tail and run if she pushes too hard.
So... I let go and let God.
My AH will give me every excuse in the book as to why AA is wrong, though: Oh, it's "old school" it's based on old stuff that doesn't apply anymore, because there's other ways to deal with drinking problems now. AA views alcoholism as a disease. It's not a disease!!! It's an "addiction". (oooohhhh - tomato, tomahto...). He needs to treat the "addiction" not the "disease". AA people have no fun - all they do is eat, sleep, drink, think, breathe AA.
Waaah waaah waaah.
So, he's not ready yet.
I have told him that for me, Al-Anon has been helping me because it is a very SPIRITUAL program, and a spiritual approach is what helps me.
I know when I told him that, he kind of chewed on it a bit... I know he wants to find faith again... he's said as much to me several times before everything blew up in his face at the beginning of this year.
I have told him that I have found wonderful friends and a great support group in Al-Anon, as well. And Al-Anon is based on the same program as AA, so I don't see how it would be any different.
But then I just have to stop myself there, because I know if I go any further, then I'll just be pushing the issue and entering the realm of "fix him", which is not where I want to go.
He attended several AA functions this weekend, heard many amazing speaker stories. I'm pretty sure he heard a few things that sank in. Something must have been speaking to him in order for him to actually have stood up in a crowd of 300+ people during the sobriety countdown.
He shut down quickly after that, though. His disease found more excuses to tuck tail and run. (He later told me that he felt a lot of "judgemental, hateful eyes" on him from his old AA group members when he stood up - he'd been attending AA meetings back in January and early February then quit). I know that's a bunch of made-up BS, though, as the roar of applaud in that crowd when he stood up was full of nothing but love and support. Too bad for him his disease decided to warp it.
So... yeah... I just let him do what he's going to do. Is he in recovery? Don't know. But you know, "recovery" doesn't necessarily mean working the 12 steps, either. I can't get wrapped up in my own world and think that the 12-step way is the ONLY way - I'm right and he's wrong kind of stuff. Does me no good thinking of it that way, either. His HP has special plans for him, and who am I to say that a 12-step program is what his HP wants him to be in?
One of my Al-Anon friends after last night's meeting told me this:
"When you said your husband stood up at the convention, I was applauding him, and applauding YOU even more. He is taking baby steps. He may never recover as quickly as you, but his standing up was one tiny step towards his own recovery. And I don't think he'd have even done it if not for his seeing the changes you've been making in your life. So his actually standing up was a big reflection on the recovery you're making. If you weren't in recovery, you'd just be stuck in the same old mess you were at the beginning of the year, and he certainly wouldn't have gone to that convention nor stood up, either."
