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Today, while stone sober, he called my older son a "silly bastard." All because my son gave me an idea on refinishing the woodwork in my living room that A hadn't thought about. My son restores interiors of old houses for a living, and there are certain things he knows and is readily willing to share with the us as we restore our own place. But A didn't like his idea, hence the remark.
There is only one thing I cannot, in my heart, forgive. That is having my child called an ugly, vile name. Don't tell me names never hurt anyone until you've tried this one out for yourself!!! I don't yet know what to do; I have hardly stopped crying. I think now might be the time to tell him to get out.
My heart is heavy and broken, and I am tired of being the brunt of his selfishness and cruel words. This is the worst.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Diva, I am going to be blunt here because you are always so blunt with me (thank heavens for this, I count on you for this).
He did not call you a name, he called someone else the name. It seems to me that his issue is with your son (who must be an adult?) and not you. I would encourage the two of them to work it out and leave you out of it. You do not need the stress and you do not need to be the monkey in the middle, here.
Just my ESH, written to you with love, take what you would like and leave the rest. Hugs and peace, J.
This is what I like Jean, and why I can be counted on for it. Nothing sugar-coated, just the plain truth as one sees it. Thanks for your honesty; it is appreciated. I like you, and I always learn something from your responses be they for me or someone else.
SLS, you are another person I admire and respect a great deal. Your to-the-point way of speaking always gets an, "amen" from me.
Thanks to you both,
Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 16:09, 2008-04-21
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Hag Sameach, Diva. I hope your Pesach will be good.
I am going to be blunt too, Diva. I simply cannot understand why a person who can take care of herself would even consider staying with a drunk. By your own admission he treats you selfishly, without regard, calls your children names, and is cruel. In the past you have even suspected that he cheated on you. You do not express happiness in your relationship with him, EVER. What you express is tolerance of bad behavior and compromising of your self-worth and values. People who play in toxic dumps do not stay healthy.
Frankly, there is nothing to fear in being alone. There is no shame in being alone. The shame is in putting up with abuse.
I agree with Jean wholeheartedly. What he said was directed at your son not you...and to be perfectly honest from my perspective as a man who isn't always "thrilled" when someone else can come up with a better idea or way to do something than I can....this particular incident sounds rather off the cuff and really directed inward more than outward.
Of course I was not there in the room, and you know I am not minimizing your feelings my friend, just food for thought!
Ditto...if the truth be known, I seem only to post about my A when I am not happy with his actions. I never talk about the good in him. Probably because it doesn't seem to overshadow the cruel and selfish side. I am good at "advising" others to dump the drunk, but I guess I am not as good at practicing what I preach...But I tell ya, the time is coming. Again, thank you too for being blunt. I'd much rather hear your comments than some pussy-foot ones aimed at nothing. LOL!!!
Yep David, you could have a good point there. Son is a genius on more than one level and perhaps A feels he cannot compete. That's not true, of course, but who knows what makes people think the way they do???
I got in my little sports car, went to WalMart and bought myself a new hair dryer. Mine gave up yesterday. I am feeling a little less angry, but no less hurt.
Diva with dry hair.
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Speaking as a mom, that little flip remark would tick me off - but ONLY if I was already unhappy with the person saying it. If a dear friend or valued family member said that, I would PROBABLY laugh along in that situation.
Us moms are FIERCE protectors of our babies (even if they're all grown up). I get the sense that this may have been the final straw with you. As in "you can push me and push me and push me and push me, but if you mess with my child - it's OVER!" There was a line in the sand. And he went there with you. I like David's take on it, though, and really agree with him that it "sounds rather off the cuff and really directed inward more than outward." (I love getting the male perspective on things like this.)
Only you know where you are in your relationship. I'll tell you what I see, though. Like the others, I see you as a very strong, capable, independent woman, who's not afraid to speak her mind. (Something I admire, respect, and count on from you.) So I'm a little puzzled why you're in a relationship that from a distance looks only "tolerable". Maybe with this latest incident it's becoming clearer to you that the payoff for being with this man is no longer worth the price. That's his usefulness as your partner is diminishing? Just a hunch.
No doubt you'll make the right decision for yourself. I just know it.
Hag Sameach, Diva. I hope your Pesach will be good.
I am going to be blunt too, Diva. I simply cannot understand why a person who can take care of herself would even consider staying with a drunk. By your own admission he treats you selfishly, without regard, calls your children names, and is cruel. In the past you have even suspected that he cheated on you. You do not express happiness in your relationship with him, EVER. What you express is tolerance of bad behavior and compromising of your self-worth and values. People who play in toxic dumps do not stay healthy.
Frankly, there is nothing to fear in being alone. There is no shame in being alone. The shame is in putting up with abuse.
Hazak Ve'ematz
I am sorry if I was too blunt.
Wow, what a powerful post, and much along the lines of what I was thinking.
In reading through the responses, although I agree the son is an adult, I personally could have no respect for someone who addressed even my adult child like that. I don't care if it was directed inward or not, it was an ugly statement.
I played in the toxic dump for far too long. Today I deserve much better, and I don't have room for resentful people in my life, period.
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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
I hate that sort of language and I will not tolerate that from anyone. So sorry you have been hurt so deeply by this incident. Perhaps this is the 'straw that broke the camel's back' and you reacted from that position if your relationship is one of tolerance, as it seems to be.
You are strong, you call it as you see it, and for that I so respect you and value you. It seems to me that this incident pushes your tolerance out of the window; a step too far. And that is okay, you are human. Could this be your STOP sign?
So what you going to do now? Put up, or shut up?
[I know it was a cruel remark about my children that pushed my tolerance out the window. When the A, suggested that my children had pawned my jewelry (you may recall I posted some time ago) that was the signal that our marriage had come to an end and I was not prepared to tolerate his resentment and cruelty any more.]
Holding you close. Suzannah
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Out of the ruin of my past I have found the fortress of myself and I know how to defend it.
Strive for WISDOM; Seek SERENITY; NEVER compromise your INTEGRITY.
Okay girlfriend, let me first say: "Happy Passover". Secondly, you are a strong, independant, kind and loving woman. You have taught me so much here. You are one of my angels whom I admire greatly. I have heard you talk lovingly of your A as I have of mine. Having said that, they can be troublesome at times.
Like David and Jean, this remark was directed at your son. The remark was cruel at any age. But how your son handles it is up to him. It doesn't mean that it can't hurt you because it can as if he actually hit you.
So here's a some questions for you to think on: 1) If he had actually hit you or your son, what would you do? 2) Are you lonlier with him than without him, sober or not? 3) If this were me, what would wise Diva tell me?
Decision don't have to me made in a day or a week. The answers will come when we are most ready to receive them. Perhaps you are gettingr ready to make the decision and this is the catalyst to do so, whatever it is. Whatever you decide, we are behind you 150%. Only you can truly answer what is in your heart. As my grandfather would say: "Be still and let your heart think." The answers will always come. You'll find them. I promise. Much love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
-- Edited by Karilynn at 20:40, 2008-04-21
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I did not make clear the fact that I was talking to my son on the phone, and when I related what he had said, that's when the A made the cruel, vile remark. Son knows nothing about it, and he never will. We (A and I) had an unpleasant discussion about his behavior. He is angry at everything. He does not like America, even though he became a naturalized citizen just a few months ago. He is angry at everything American including, I guess, my son. He wants for us to go and live in Cyprus. I don't think so. He knows I can afford it - he cannot. Sometimes I feel I mean nothing more to him than a ticket to the US, a beautiful home to live in, a snazzy sports car to drive, and all the extras that come with the money... *sigh*
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
In my experience, there were things that the phrase,"don't even go there" fit big time.
My family,friends and animals. I will not be around critical people.
To me comments like that are only said to upset the one spoken too. Has zero to do with your son. You know your son is great and you are proud of him.
It as hitting below the belt, it was a do not go there place meant to sting.
To me it is the same as this trick. ME or the dog.Well it is not that you are upset and have to make a choice, it is how dare this person put that kind of crap on another! I would NEVER be with anyone who gave me ultimatums.
And if AH said anything like that about anyone I loved or was critical of any person phooey on them and goodbye.
I learned to change me. I know what I can and will accept in a person. Would rather live alone that be in one that is toxic.
I would say most people would know better than to put a mother or fathers kids down.
Far as I am concerned, I am connected to my kids,dogs etc,love me love my loved ones or at least be respectful of them.
love you diva, and If you choose to stay with him, It hits on that how can you change you to be able to live with it.
And also trust your intuition, you feeling he is there just for the money, makes me concerned. You know how special you are. Maybe you deserver to be treated better, if by just you or another someday...
debilyn who wants to wash your A's mouth out with soap.....
Got up this morning thinking about your situation.
When I said 'What you going to do, Put up or shut up?', I meant it this way:
When the A got as low as to start on the children I decided I was NOT going to put up with his nasty disease ridden contempt, that was the last straw. I therefore shut up my shop with him and the marriage was over, leastways I thought it would be over until He was prepared to get help, do something about his disease and stop blaming everyone else for what he did, or tearing everyone apart because of his disease.
I again, feel the same for you. You are a beautiful person, you deserve better and it is horrible that he said what he did to you. It was directed at you, it was the punch below the belt, the knife in the heart meant to wound you and it did, your anchilles heal, as mine was, your children.
I took everything done and said to me, but that was it when he started to use the children in such a way. I believe that is what happened to you and I know that your heart must have been wounded.
Suzannah with love and prayers too.
__________________
Out of the ruin of my past I have found the fortress of myself and I know how to defend it.
Strive for WISDOM; Seek SERENITY; NEVER compromise your INTEGRITY.
I would not like this if it happened to me so I feel sorry that it happened to you. It must have been very unpleasant. I think it was directed at you as he knew this would hurt you. It is not like your son was there to even stand up for himself. I hope you don't mind me saying this but I would make it clear to him that this was not going to be tolerated. I have had situations like this in the past where I have had to step in with my youngest son and set boundaries for behaviour. It did change things for me. It feels as if you are condoning such action if you sit and do nothing at times. You are in my thoughts and have my support no matter what your action is.
"He is angry at everything American including, I guess, my son. He wants for us to go and live in Cyprus. I don't think so. He knows I can afford it - he cannot. Sometimes I feel I mean nothing more to him than a ticket to the US, a beautiful home to live in, a snazzy sports car to drive, and all the extras that come with the money... *sigh*"
This sounds like my AH's behavior that acts out angry at everything except what he really means and that is he's usually angry if he didn't get his way. He feels guilty about not saying no to kids and perhaps your AH feels bad he doesn't have the money. The usual, I'd rather he didn't come places with me if he didn't want to come as he ruins it for everyone. Your AH sounds angry about himself so he's trying to ruin things for you and everyone around him.
A's are such sad/bad folks to be around at times and we all come to that line in the sand where enough is enough. Is there enough good to outweigh the bad or is it the last straw. You will know when you have had enough and I will too.
hugs, ddub
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"Choices are the hinges of destiny." Pythagoras You can't change the past, but you can change the future.
This dude reminds me of my stepfather, for some reason. A guy so consumed with anger that it would just come pouring out of him. Sometimes explosively. Yet a guy who could be the most charming, courtly, old-world chivalrous delight.
You never knew which one you were going to get.
When I was agonizing over whether to invite him to my wedding, I said to my counselor, well, he could be his charming self - or he could be his manipulative, nasty self. And she said: Or - he could be a little bit charming, and a little bit nasty.
For some reason this blew me away. Why couldn't I think of that?
It sounds to me like you are taking his disease personally - and it really isn't about you. Or about your son either, for that matter. Why are you taking it on?
Remember there's no rule anywhere that says you have to accept unacceptable behaviour. Why are you with this guy? No need to answer that to MY satisfaction - but you might think about answering it to YOURS.
I think every mom here has her little warning hairs standing on end. You know the reason I left my A was that he said that I had to choose between him and my daughter. So I did. It took that for me. I'm sure he didn't MEAN it but it still came out of his mouth. Not to mention her having to hear him talk about her in the way he did. Now as time has gone on and I have healed so much I look back and wonder how I took so much, but it took a long time of no communication with him.
Now, I think that if someone I were dating, married to, etc. were to say something about my child that was meant to be petty and mean I hope I would say I'm sorry you feel that way get your shit together and get out... I can't see the future, but I would hope so. It's one thing to talk about things that are real issues or real problems but from everything you have said about your son it seems that his life is very together. Maybe your A is intimidated by that since his is not. Even when grown, that is still the vessel that I poured all my energy and hard work into for so long. Now if it's the truth and the truth hurts that's one thing but if it's just petty BS that's another.
I know many said it's not directed toward you but in my opinion it is because 1 you are the one who taught him to be how he is and 2 your son wasn't in the room and if he were I wonder if he would have pummeled him on the spot? So, I don't know what else to say, I have a cruel tongue and probably would have given him such a severe lashing with it that he wouldn't know what to do with himself and bastard would have been the prettiest word said that day. But that's me. I guess I'm a little ghetto LOL.
I think there is a lot about the A I can't forgive. Ultimately it comes back to forgiving myself. I stayed with him long past destructive point. I no longer stay with him of course and he will not have any future influence on my life. He chooses to be self destructive and in some ways so did I as long as I went along with him. These days his actions no longer influence me but the mess he made will influence me for a long long time. I am accepting that. I forgive myself for that. I know how I got there.
A's lash out that is in their nature. I no longer put myself in a place where they can lash out at me. For me that's taken years. There are still huge areas of my life that I can't control like work and my living situation. I do work on controlling what I can and protect myself and my pets. I lamented and lamented and lamented the A's illness. Now I do not. He chooses not to be sober and I can't do anything about it but leave. I did leave and the price was high but I did leave and I have to work on the period now of reinstalling myself in life for me that is going to take a while.
I am so eternally grateful I do not have to deal with his obnoxious chaos any more.
Hi sweetie. I would to take offense to this remark if it were directed to one of mine. Often I wonder why people stay. Often I wonder why I stay. lmao. I have always known you as strong, outspoken, caring, blunt, kindhearted etc. Sounds pretty balanced to me. I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Sounds like this man does not want to be where he is and is taking it out on all. My partners daughter is the A in our life and I have more sense than to say some of things I may be thinking at certian times. No matter what happens this is her child. Take care of you my dear.
lilms
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Two things: 1. Recovery is a process, not an event.....and.... 2. You only get to go around once. Leave em laughing and make it worth your while
when someone else can come up with a better idea or way to do something than I can....this particular incident sounds rather off the cuff and really directed inward more than outward. 
that he was talking about.