((((((((((Lou))))))))))

Oh can I relate!!  This happened all the time at our home and to top it off, I'd finally get them focused on their homework and their dad would ask them to clean up their stuff outside or come help him for a minute on something. 

At first, I got angry and looked like the bad guy again.  Then I got in the middle and stepped in to stop him from distracting them so we as  parents argued.  Then I found the kids learned to tell their dad no but it took time and their process wasn't without lots of bumps and I had not role modeled anything worthwhile for them either.

I love those 12 traditions and try to apply them to family living.  Like tradition two and four have some good things to use with al anon and family.  I've been helping a son stay on top of things as he is 3 wks behind in math homework, a paper and a project due.  He was looking again at the big picture instead of breaking it into little pieces.

He gives me the drama and doesn't want any disapproval from dad so uses avoidance or anger with him. I ran to the store quick while he told his dad he needed to take a break.  I wasn't out of the driveway hardly when my son called with I can't do this etc.  I told him to relax & we'd talk when I got back.  Sometimes I know he gets into these situations of getting behind to get his dad's attention too - if no interactions with dad, stop doing homework and dad gets involved.  Kids know how to play both sides so good and drive the mom crazy then dad might notice and get involved.  I try to stay ahead of this tactic but it is hard when their dad is not present for one reason or another.

Got the three of us at the table, each took a turn talking with no cross talk.  Amazes me how it helps with communication and it is hard to even explain but we are all on the same team with support, understanding, concerns expressed & heard.  Son makes his plan, we find out how we can help, we are in agreement with doing our part, we all are focused on the same goal.

This would be harder to do with two locations but may be down the line someday for you?  When my AH is out of town for the week with work and he tries to help the kids by phone, I stay out of it and let him do his thing.  Sometimes he tries to solve things without all the info and kids get angy with him but at least I'm getting better at staying out of the middle.

On those weeks AH is gone, I share what's happening on the calendar and sometimes add the homework goal of getting a project done so he checks on it and encourages.....if he remembers when he calls them.  Maybe you could add the homework concerns/goals everytime they go to dad's place.  Sometimes and at least in the end, the kids eventually realized they like breaking it into little pieces that I had tried to get them to do instead of the stress of doing it all the night before with dad stressed too.... computers, printers  all things that break or need ink etc.

Aloha is right on with this:  "I think at some point in time, the kids will realize and appreciate how you've stuck with them. Your AH isn't perfect, and I'm sure at some point, he'll disappoint the kids, too, and it won't be a minor disappointment, it'll be a biggie."

So glad you vented here as it sure helps me to be heard.  The house shouldn't be cleaned because you can tell him you were focusing on helping the daughter with homework. I finally realized I made it all look easy when it was not.  You are a worthy, competent mom who knows what she is doing and don't let anyone else let you think otherwise.  If it helps, after doing those 5th grade reports in the past, last year I was hating Indiana.  (:  I've had the joy of helping on 4 of those state reports and the 2nd child was losing it bcause her drawing of the state bird, humingbird looked ugly.  I still remember having to help draw a hummingbird, eeegad and that was 10 years ago but I don't know which state that was now.  Draw a hummingbird?, good grief! - thank heavens you can get pictures off computer easier now.

hugs, ddub

-- Edited by ddub at 04:15, 2008-04-21

Thanks for the responses. I think ultimately I am upset about the relationship I have with my daughter. There is just this unspoken animosity between us. I'm keeping a big secret from her - her dad has a relationship not just with another woman, but her friend's mom - but I struggle that telling her about it is not the right thing. Once I tell her I can't take it back and I don't know what the ripple effect will be. But, by staying silent, I continue to protect her dad and she continues to blame me. Either way I go I see damage, but I am starting to think that since she will eventually know, I probably should just do it. She knows something is up. It's going to be so painful. I don't know if I can.

And as for the report... it is not just a "report". It also includes a timeline of history with pictures, a poem, info on a famous person from that state, a travel brochure, various worksheets, and, get this, a float made from a shoebox! There is no way an 11 yr old could do it all by him/herself.  I'm all for writing and research, but really, this is ridiculous. My daughter is very capable and usually a self-starter. She is struggling mostly because she procrastinated, but it is still a lot of work on top of other homework and softball, and I can't imagine any child being completely independent. Heck, they should just assign the project to the parents.

Thanks. I think I am done griping now. I need some heavy duty time with God this morning before I start my day. Thanks for being here.

Lou

-- Edited by Loupiness at 11:07, 2008-04-21

OH! A FLOAT!!!! Jeeze, when was the last time I needed to make a FLOAT out of a shoebox for work????LOL!!! Maybe it's time for me to get a new job? LOL!

 Let me tell you how I told my girls about their father's newest "love". I pulled up to the curb where ex and Gf were standing and I yelled out of the window (with EXTREME politeness) "HELLO!!! WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR NEW GF TO MEET YOUR CHILDREN?" And that is how they met new GF. I explained right then and there that this is where ex was living and this is who he was living with. Needless to say, everyone, except me, was speechless. The kids at that point hadn't even seen or heard from their father for the previous 4 months and here he was living 3 blocks away. I was so mad that it overshadowed what my kids may have felt. And the shame was on him and her. He acted like a complete Moron. Like these weren't really his kids, and like he wasn't still married to me and I was just some lunatic (and I was in that moment). Still, I do not regret showing the kids what kind of thing their father is. They know he isn't a real dad anyway. They saw what he did to me and they are seeing what he has done to them. It is awful and disqusting. Sickening. For the simple fact that I am their mother he should respect me. Anyway, I DO NOT suggest doing it this way. The damage to the kids was more so due to him and his GF acting embarrassed and aloof. The kids are used to me acting like a nut when it comes to their father(not anymore though).

 Another day, it was just me and my then 12 yr old in the car and there they go, walked right in front of my car. And he wasn't going to stop to say hello to his oldest!!!!! but he turned around and came over. He said hello to her and I said a few choice things about the fact that THEY stole my mother's credit cards and the diamond ring and the NO child support and the NO seeing/calling the kids and I said it all rationally and adult-ly. He just kept trying to ignore me. But I got it all out and in front of the kid too. Not the best parenting moment for me. He finally said "well, I have to go to work" and walked away. I drove away and cried and apologized to my daughter and ya know what that little 12 year old said to me? She said "It's ok Mom, you're doing the best you can, I know that." I was like dumbfounded. I just looked at her. Then I put my arms around her and hugged her so tight. I told her that she is 12 and doesn't have to be so smart! She could be really mad at me for the way I have behaved and she said "Ok, but I'm not." It was like a huge burden had been lifted. She doesn't say much, but she knows I love her and she knows that her father is a sick, abusive man. She loves him, but she doesn't trust him. She saw that when I stepped out of the picture, when I stopped enabling him to be a father, he stopped being a father and she sees that is him, Not me.

 My family is just me and the 3 kids and we are tight. I do not share much with them, only when I have to now. But because we are family I do not want to keep secrets from them either. I am not one to go all out and talk about how we are all feeling and the like. But I give them the facts and let them draw their own conclusons. It is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. I spent 13 years convicing the kids and myself and anyone who would listen that he WAS a good dad. He wasn't. Now, how do I explain that one to the kids? I owe them MY loyality, and MY trust.
 
As far as telling your daughter, well, we are only as sick as our secrets and my mother kept so many from me as a kid. When I am given correct information, I am able to make correct decisions. When I am lied to, I am unable to make correct decisions and I also lose faith and trust in the ones who lied to me. I know my mother and I could have been much closer had she choosen to share her life with me. Age appropriate ofcourse. But she didn't and today we have no relationship at all. It's funny that she refused to even answer my questions honestly and yet she expects me to want to share my life with her! Be careful with what you keep from your children.

I remember once, a big three week project that my son had been working on - science fair, I think.  I'd been involved from the beginning, he'd been bouncing the whole thing off me. Here we were, night before it was due, just doing the set up - gluing things to the poster board, etc. And in walks the A, half cut of course, not knowing thing one about it because he hadn't bothered to pay any attention for the last weeks, and proceeds to tell us we are doing it all wrong. 

I felt like the back of my head was going to come off, I was so mad.  But, walked away, let them go to it, and it worked out fine. Not the way I would have done it, but hell, it wasn't my homework in the first place!

As for the "hero" thing - don't kid yourself.  Kids are not stupid, it won't take "one day" for them to realize who is the reliable, dependable, parent. They know it now.  They might play you guys off each other in order to get things to go the way they want, but they know.  What do you wanna bet they have ways of making their dad feel guilty about all YOU do for them?

If he doesn't like the way you keep house, I bet he knows where the vacuum cleaner is.

As for telling your daughter everything - would that be in her best interests, or would it just make you feel better?   Maybe saying something like "You don't know the whole story, there are private, adult aspects to this" would help you feel less like the Wicked Witch, while still protecting her from knowledge that is really not appropriate for her.

My kids are 16 and 18, and I have never spelled out to them exactly everything their dad did.  He said things to them like "I treated your mother badly" and I said things like "You know that our marriage was not always happy".  They knew about the drinking, and although we never came right out and said "Your dad was a crack addict" they also knew that drugs were part of his story.  That's all the detail they need.  I won't ever lie to them if they ask a question, but I don't have to tell them chapter and verse, either.

I want to clarify something - I do think it is important not to lie to kids.  Pretending everything is fine when it so very obviously is not, is not the way to go.  Ignoring the elephant inthe room, or keeping secrets, is not a healthy approach.

However, there is a big difference between acknowledging that there is something wrong, and involving kids in the intimate details of your marriage.  Maybe what your daughter needs from you is assurance that you are not doing this lightly, that you have good and sufficient reasons for your actions, but that those reasons are private.

Telling all in an effort to get her on "your side" is likely to backfire badly; do her a lot of harm, and you no good. 

It is not only OK for the kids to continue to love their dad, if they can, it's mportant for their emotional health.  It would probably be easy for you right now to destroy her relationship with her father - tell her everything, and spin it so he really is the bad guy. Fine, for now.  However, if she comes to loathe everything about him, what happens later, when she recognizes aspects of him in her?  When she realizes some physical characteristic, or personality quirk, or talent, has been inherited from him?  This can easily translate into self loathing, which you really don't want to be planting in your children.

If you are not happy with your relationship with your children, work on mending it. If you think you are too hard on them, ease up.  That part of it is your side of the street, and you can keep yourself busy cleaning it, and pay no attention to the kids' relationship with their dad.  They have enough love for two parents.