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When you [we] let go of controlling the A and the A comes home drunk and does stupid [&dangerous] things....what should we do?/ I know that talking normally is out of the question when they are drunk, so I just ignore the A wife and go on with my own life. Then the day after...she is hungover and in pain, I've had a bad night's sleep and we both go into silence, sometimes lasting days. The A wife usually wins this game as it seems women can play the 'silence game' longer than most men. No offence meant to women...in fact maybe it's an offhand compliment that you women are strongeR. Sometimes I break the deadly silence with anger, that produces negativity, but lately I just sulk and ignore her.
I don't know about my "suggestions" being any good but I can say the idea that "women" are better at silence is not, I repeat NOT! true in my household. If he sulks for 60 seconds I am all over him one way or the other... I am working on giving him space.. then saying one little nice or normal thing and giving him more space... repeat as needed... and patience... I think it will work better. I don't know, because I process everything externally- meaning in by thoughts .. out my mouth.
I don't think it's men and women but rather alanons and A's or differences in personalities of people.
I don't know what to say about danger etc. as my A is really good about avoiding dangerous stuff -never vomits or gets really bad hangovers. He just "goes away" and has all the emotional difficulties of not being in your own body to deal with your feelings as they come up.- and can't "go out" that much in evening cuz he's just sitting drinking etc.
I'm certain some on here can give much better ESH than me but the silence thing is hard, mabe it's done for control maybe they can't feel and say what they want to maybe it's some of both.. But it's not about being a woman in my view!!
And it's not about me, I did not cause it and I can't fix it!! God can if it is truely turned over to him! And his requirements of those that trust him are not demanding or hard, his burden is easy- his requirements are light! I only have to let go and let God! and I can't do anything about it anyway so no matter what happens.... I get more peace when I let God!! ( I forget this and stumble back into old ways like moment by moment so don't think I am being a know it all here... believe me I stumble fall, cause all kind of drama etc.. thank you HP for the alanon program!!!
Certainly the A I was with could keep up the silence for weeks. He'd freeze me out. I don't know there is a "should". I know there are suggestions. One is to work my own program. When I am angry and frustrated my inclination to lash out is right there on the surface. At the same time I often find myself labelled as the kind giving one. This weekend I had to tell a friend I am not well and guess what its my turn to be sick today. I am tired of being all giving, all loving, all compassion. I don't have it to be there perfect every day. Sometimes we have to push back. I try super hard to be clear when I say that. Sometimes I just don't have it.
I think I can sometimes think in generalities but I know for me its often very very difficult to get to sick people behave like sick people. An active A is a very sick person. They rebell, act out, frustrate and are angry a lot. For me expecting much from someone like that is going to the butchers to buy my bread. Of course I expected them to get better, get sober for me but they did not do that. My response was of course rage and I raged for a good 7 years before I accepted it. I know often my response won't get anywhere with an active A so I choose very carefully how I respond.
I still have my youngest daughter at home, now almost 20.
Unfortunately she has started binge drinking, not in front of me as I have a no alcohol policy in my home, but when she is out with friends. She also spends the night away when she is drinking.
Her numerous poor choices have led to some fairly serious financial consequences, not the least of which are a car payment and auto insurance payment that automatically come out of her checking account on specific dates each month.
Rather than calling the bank last month before the car payment was due to come out because she was once again short, and see if they would hold the payment till the next paycheck, she procrastinated several days too late, the payment had come out, and subsequently she was $130 overdrawn. Enter the next paycheck, which she's now decided to take so much time off the boss only gives her 3 days a week and she had a whomping $20 in her account after the paycheck was deposited.
She came home after finding out the balance, stomping, raging, etc etc. I was sitting in my computer chair and let her vent, all the while expressing nothing more than the fact I was listening.
I calmly reminded her that 3 days a week doesn't make for much of a paycheck.
She stomped off into the living room.
I continued doing what I was doing on the computer, refusing to pick up her anger and frustration.
When she got no reaction from me, she screamed 'thanks for caring' and out the front door she went.
I refuse to expect anything from her, I don't sulk, I don't give her the silent treatment as a tool to manipulate, I don't bite into her anger/frustration/rage, and she either blows over quickly on her temper tantrum, or leaves, either option works well for me!
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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
My suggestion is to get out your Al-Anon toolbox and learn to detach. Detachment allows us to not react at all. Ignoring and deadly silence IS a reaction. When we are reacting we can not be thinking clearly about how to solve a problem or protect ourselves from a danger.
A's are gonna do what A's are gonna do. They are sick people. We can not control or cure thier sickness by any means including silence. Also one thing I learned a few months ago is that to ignore and give the silent treatment is a form of withholding affection that is extremely harmful to all concerned. It says that if you don't act the way I want you to, I won't love you. Imagine how our children feel watching us do that to each other. It is terrifying for them to think that if they don't act right to please us, our love will be withdrawn. And they will learn to do it to their children. I was so sad when I realised that I had been doing this not only to my AH, but also to my 7 yo son. :(
Al-Anon has a good pamphlet on detachment and I'm sure others can point you to more on the subject. Detachment is one of our greatest tools.
JMHO hope this helps.
In recovery,
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~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
I definitely agree, the whole "who's better at being silent" is totally an Alcoholic versus Al-Anoner thing instead of a male versus female thing. I used to think that MEN were all winners at the "silent treatment" game, but your post finally clarified for me - nope. It's alcoholics who are great at the "silent treatment" game.
See, the thing I've been learning with the Al-anon program is this:
I have absolutely no control over what my AH is going to do. This doesn't just encompass his drinking. This encompasses EVERYTHING he does - his unique ways he chooses to go about chores, how he interacts with other people, how he problem-solves, etc. So it's not just his drinking that I don't have control over. I have no control over how he's going to behave around me, period, whether alcohol has anything to do with it or not.
Knowing that, I choose not to busy my mind with how I think I'm supposed to react to my AH in whatever it is he's doing - most especially if I find I'm taking offense to it somehow. I CANNOT CONTROL HIM. So, I choose instead to control me - and that usually means not concerning myself at all with what my AH is thinking. None of my business! Don't care! I just tell myself whatever I can to get my head out of the realm of trying to pry into HIS head.
So when it comes to the "silent treatment", I don't even play into it. If he's mad at me over something, whatever. He can either discuss it with me calmly or clam up and sulk around me. If he chooses to sulk, then I'll choose to leave his presence and do something to maintain my serenity. It can be reading al-anon materials, praying or meditating, or even just doing something fun, too.
Take the path of least resistance. 99.99% of the time, that path is NOT through our A's. It's through ourselves. You can give yourself permission to let it go and release yourself and actually enjoy your day. YOU have the power to do that for yourself.
This is something that is more a change in attitude than a change in behaviour, so will probably take a while.
A big part of it, I think, is accepting that your spouse is not drinking AT you. Alcoholics drink - it's what they do. Getting mad at them for drinking, for breaking promises not to drink, and so on, is useless. All it does is make everybody even more unhappy than they already are.
Instead, set clear boundaries, about the things that are important to you, with consequences that you feel able to enforce - "I will not be screamed at. If you scream at me, I will leave the room" "I will not allow the kids to be put in danger. If you drive with them when you are drunk, I will leave you and take them with me." With this, you are giving up control of the A, and getting back some control of yourself. This will help you lose a lot of YOUR anger - I think a lot of the anger we feel is frustration.
As for her anger, it's none of your business. If she wants to be angry, let her. YOU are the one who chooses how YOU act. If you want to live in a home where you are speaking to your wife, then speak to her. It doesn't mean she's won the battle, it doesn't mean you've 'given in'. It means that you have chosen not to play that game - she throws the ball of angry silence at you, and you let it hit the floor with a thud and stay there.
This is easier to talk about than to do - old emotional habits are hard to break. It can be done, though, just take your time and work at it. I still don't like it when people are mad at me, but it doesn't destroy and consume me like it used to.
Oh, gosh... the only thing that comes off of the top of my head is that we can do to things when we are upset about something:
react -- which involves emotions respond -- which involves thought
I was becoming upset with my A's behaviors, and used to react. Then, I thought about it, saw that my reacting wasn't working, and made a plan for detachment.
I shared my plan (i.e. my boundaries) with my A-bf. The next time he crossed my boundary, I put my plan (i.e. I responded) into action. The difference with this is that I did share ahead of time, "If you ______, then I will ______." It was no secret. It was no ultimatum. It was reasonable. And I followed through with it.
My A-bf has worked recovery programs enough to know what a boundary is, so I didn't feel the need to explain and explain. Just calmly said it once, then went about taking care of me when I needed to. I am so at peace with that. I have no guilt about it... there are no games involved this way. I was very clear ahead of time.
Welcome to the MIP family. I'm pretty good at keeping silent for awhile. Part of our problem is that we live in a small apartment and there aren't lots of places I can hide (like the basement) and keep busy. Usually I just try and give myself a timeout so that it doesn't escalate. I grab a meditation book or a favorite book of poetry or put my headsets on. I know this is hard, but learning to detach is often for me the sanest tool I have. I try not to react to him.Perhaps refocusing that negative energy into something positive, like the kids will help. Try and stay busy if you can. Just as men and women react differently to their addictions/sobriety so do we Alanoners. That's why you see separate meetings for men & women in recovery. It also lets men be men and women be women without fear of offending someone.
As someone who has an anthropology background, I'm guessing that the cultural differences are going to come into play. I have often wondered how recovery varies from culture to culture in AA as well as Alanon. So not only are you dealing with gender differences, but there's probably cultural ones as well. Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty <--- the cat
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I usually just tried to go on about my day, get out, join in some local activities and get away from the silence, get my conversation from elsewhere! Take the kids to do something fun, do a project at home, busy busy busy. As for the silent treatment, I'm not so good at silence and I know it's just a game. I don't purposely try to be silent, sometimes I just don't participate in a baited conversation but I will participate in general conversation and if it goes downhill then I walk away. That's all I got, sorry.
I think now one year out from leaving the A he often used me as an excuse to go back out again. I over reacted to him day and night and then he would get away from me and go back out again. He always had a long litany of complaints about me. I never kept the house right, I didn't "do" enough for him, I didn't provide enoug sex.
The issue for me was not to get caught up in that. The more I focus on it the more I am aware that I need to make detachment a priority every day even though I am not currently in a relationship with an active A.
