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I've started seeing a counselor (its short term) and am going to work on my anger and resentment. I'm really seeing now there is so much that plays into my anger. I can't load it all up from the past or the A.
Some of it is my own rigid self defeating behavior. Over giving is a huge issue for me. I over give then resent, then sulk, then resent some more. Then I get into disaster zones because I am so exhausted.
In my current job where I am new I get a chance to try out new behaviors. One is not to over give. A colleague asked me to show her the sights around the city. She is flying in tomorrow. I set up something for her which has fallen through.
I went into my usual litany of why can't I do this. How much I want to people please. Then I went into my martyr litany of why don't I have people in my life who can help me over -give (funny huh?). Then I just accepted I couldn't do it.
I had all these scenario's of the wonderful person I wanted to be. Now I just have to be the person who says "No" because I don't have that to give.
When I dealt with the A particularly last year when he was homeless I made a science out of over giving. He lapped it up, played into it. He never stopped asking. He had no respect or even concern for my finances, my resources, my stamina, where I was, how I felt, nothing. He keyed right into that charactor defect of over giving and had a wonderful time for a few months. Then I got exhausted.
During our entire relationship I over gave to him continously and had no idea I was way way way beyond my boundaries. Whatever I gave was no enough.
I've repeated this trait so many times with my nephews, with my roommates, with my friends, bosses, you name it I did it. Now I do something else and its totally strange like being in a foreign country.
At this moment I know this over giving really played into my chronic anger, resentment issue which is critical for me. I'm tired of being chronicaly enraged so tired at times I was seriously depressed.
If you have a moment let me know how you stopped over giving and when it stopped being foreign to you.
The core of the whole thing was being concerned that people would be angry or upset if I couldn't fulfill their needs. When people asked me to do stuff I started to detect the internal "ugh, I really don't want to do that" and be aware of it. That feeling was my queue to "just say NO". To my surprise most people just shrugged and said OK. It got a lot easier from there. If there was a snarky reply I just left it with them to deal with. I can't control their attitude. Just mine.
I really detest Tupperware and Home deco parties that friends and family held (Stupid games and high prices for plastic, IMO). I never have to attend another one as long as I live! It takes a lot less energy to say "No Thanks" then the energy I spent for days thinking "AHHH!!! I hate these things! Why did I say I'd go?" Now I just say "Thanks for the invite but it's not my thing. Good Luck with it though." Much easier.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I got a text message from my son early this morning asking me to do something for him. I typed up a reply and read it back for spelling errors and omissions and then I stopped. I actually caught myself saying, No - I am not going to say that, and I am not going to justify why I cannot do it today, I will just say "Yes, I can do that for you, however it will be tomorrow at the earliest. I will text you when I have completed the task. Okay?"
He text back, " Great, that's okay, in your own time and thanks ma. XXX"
WOW, I did not justify, I gave him the chance to say - that will be too late - without excusing myself from getting up and dashing out there and then, which I would have done not so long ago.
It felt good and I actually smiled at myself and felt happy too. I don't mind helping, though I usually go UGH - I don't want to do that right this minute - and through OLD self guilt trips just do it there and then and feel used!
This time, no self guilt trip, I said yes and then said when I would do it, and I found that it was okay to say what I did, and I did not need to justify the delay and I did not feel UGH, or used.
YIPPEE!!!
I LIKE THAT FEELING......and this is new to me too........so good luck with your atempts to change YOU from those old, bad habits.
And, whilst you are here, here's some (((((((((hugs ))))))))))))) for encouragement.
-- Edited by Heartbroken at 15:27, 2008-03-26
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"The highest form of wisdom is kindness." The Talmund
Well Of course I want to believe its all everyone out there who is contributing to my chronic resentment. My norm is people please to death, feel resentful and fall down dead from depression and exhaustion. I don't have much of a check in my norm is to want to "please".
Doing anything different is very very very foreign but oh so necessary if I don't want to drop dead pretty soon.
I am not very guilty of over giving, usually I am the needy one who over takes, the one with 3 kids who needs someone to do something to help out all the time...
I have an opposite example actually, on Monday my daughter had her school 8th grade dance (prom type thing) and her friend's mom (my sort of friend) agreed to take her. I got home from work and was really tired and I called her while they were still on their way there and asked her if she would bring her home after. She said yes. Then my daughter got home and was uncomfortable because my friend had apparently gone on and on all the way home about me making her bring her home, about how I never paid either of her kids for babysitting (they each watched my 2 younger ones once and money was never discussed) and on and on ranting about me. I was really frustrated by this. All she had to do was say no or tell me I'd really rather not drive all the way out there or something, even call me and tell me she changed her mind... But no she pulled the passive aggressive crap instead. So I called her a left a voice mail for her saying that my daughter had said that she was upset about having to bring her home and if she would have told me I would have come to get her. She is unfortunately the only person I have to rely on for anything here. On Fridays she is supposed to pick up my middle kid and bring her home from girl scouts because I work then and I don't want her to have to quit. Now I'm worried that she may be resentful of that too.
I used to always worry about hurting my husband's feelings or what he "might do" if I said something he didn't like. With everyone else I'm pretty good at saying no when I mean no.
I've definitely been on both ends of the spectrum. I know I burned lots of people out with the asking too much. I also burned a lot of people out with the obsessing and being in victim mode. I am conscious not to ask too much. I really do not ask many people at all to help me with my dogs. I asked one friend and paid them. One of my roommates gives me a ride once a week to get all my dog food and pet food and I pay her or buy her cat's food. I don't ask her anymore than that. I used to really go overboard with asking because I didn't know how to read cues when people hesitated.
I'm probably on the other end of not asking enough but I prefer to be there than asking too much at the moment. I've burned so many people I try to take care of those who will help me at the moment and try to make some effort to reciprocity.
It was interesting to read your thread becasue I 'over give' and I have done for the last 10 years or so. I am beginning to think that it is because I (as an adult child of 2 alcoholics) I need to feel needed, I am beginning to recognise that I do things/ offer to do and give things to family, friends, work colleagues etc because I need to feel that I am needed and I need to feel that I am wanted. I also get so much satisfaction from helping people. HOWEVER, I then fall into the martyr mode and feel very 'put on' and complain to myself and other friends that I have been chasing my tail all over town for everyone but myself!!!
I am working on spending more time on me and less time on others.
It has crossed my mind that maybe becasue I need help from people (support etc) subconsciencly I am doing so much for others in the vein hope that one day these people will do something that I need for me - without me having to ask for it??
Very confusing feelings and realisations. I have only recently noticed these things about me so it is still early days!
I really did have a fantasy last year that at some point the A would become grateful for all I did for him. I am now looking at the social learning theory issue that my mother was a martyr and I learned it from her. She went without everything as she aged, for what? I'm not sure. I know it became even more obsessional for her.
I think the way I know how to engage is not necessarily healthy. The issue for me of course is that I have little if any experience of being healthy with people. I have lots of experience of being around needy, difficult, demanding people but none where respect, faith, tolerance and feedback is the key. In fact I'd have to say whenever I met people like that I felt decidedly uncomfortable. Now I find myself all the time walking away from many interactions because I can see that other people are just like I was, needy, desperate and feel like if they manipulate, lie, cheat and more they'll get their way.
I did my fair share of manipulation and must say its been hard to give up because over the years I got pretty good at it. Of course I also claimed that I wasn't doing it. I had no idea how to negotiate, watch, wait, renegotiate. I manipulated, resented, controlled, resented, obsessed, manipulated, obsessed, put myself in a frenzy and so on. Then I got to this point where I realised its going to kill me if I keep this up.
This is part of the key to my own shortcomings, too. I think this is a great thread Maresie, thank you so much for bringing it up.
Over-give/people-please, whatever you want to call it, it is a hallmark of OUR disease. Its part of the game we play in trying to control others. We think that if we give enough/please enough that others will appreciate us more and love us more, acknowledge us and get closer/stay.
Turning to HP has been one of the ways that I deal with this. Yearning to hear/please/give to HP and honor HP as much as possible is one way I can still "do" the behavior but not with other humans!! Hugs, J.
