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Hello my family, I am reaching out right now becuase I need some ESH from alanoners. I have talked to a few nonalanons and they have at least helped me dry my tears and keep somewhat of a focus on the tasks at hand.
My husband and I are seperated and have been for about 3 weeks. This is the second seperation since October, so this time we are both seriously looking at divorce. Somewhere inside me I know that is the right thing to do, but it still hurts.
Anyway- We were talking on the phone today and he was getting upset with me about his feeling like I don't need him or want him, which when he isn't emotional he knows that isn't true. He knows I love him. Well I ended the conversation, to be honest I hung up on him.
I got a text later on the basically let me know this woman he has been talking to since he moved out and he are going to be intimate together tonight. I was of course shocked and hurt and it exaclty what I think he was trying to get out of me. I replied back that his actions won't change my love for him, but they will change him and I hope he can live with that. He also knows that any chance of the marriage working out will be ended if he follows through with this.
I am trying as hard as I can not to focus on this, to not think about it at all. Trying not to have the images of him in my head, but that seems to be an impossibility. I am chanting the serenity prayer, but I can not allow him to take the full blame of where we are today. I can and do however, allow him the responsibility for his own choices and actions. So I am not saying that I made him make this choice. I am saying that I am not perfect, far from and there are many things I could have done differently to change where our marriage is today.
I am emotional and right now fighting the tears so that I can make it through the next hour and 10 minutes at work, taking care of the kids, and then finally when they go to bed I will allow myself the good cry I want to have right now.
He thinks I am this strong person who is independent and doesn't need anyone. He is so wrong. I can't make it through this pain alone. I think it hurts so much because right now I am truly facign the end of an almsot 11 year realationship with a man that I am still desperately in love with. And right now I am wonder what was so wrong that I couldn't live with it anymore. But I just couldn't take the constant lies, the stealing, the broken promises to the kids, the fear of what he would do with my car, I hated wondering what paraphernalia was in the house, and just all that goes with living with and loving an addict.
And if I am truly letting him go so he can hit his bottom, can I accept that having sex with someone else is part of that bottom? OMG I don't know. Or am I mourning the end of our intimate realationship? Becuase I won't let him touch me now.
I have much more to say, but I can hear my HP again. He is telling me I am ok, I will make it through this and he is with me. I needed to get to that point again.
Yours in recovery, Mandy123
-- Edited by debilyn at 19:14, 2008-03-25
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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
During my marriage and 2 seperations... I never had an open threat from my Aw come to pass... they were all threats meant to make me do something...
If he indeed does something... well then that is a fact to deal with, but the worry over a threat is a waste of spirit.... (yet I have done it too...hundreds of times)
We all love you and are here for you...
And your HP is absolutely right... be right there with you too. You will be ok no matter what...
Take care of you!
-- Edited by rtexas at 18:38, 2008-03-25
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I love that you can hear your HP through all of this.
When things went sour with my AH, there was one time where he left the house. I was very calm and put together, and I know that unsettled him even more. In his mind, I'm sure I was supposed to beg him not to leave and to stay and I'll do whatever he asks, just don't leave.
Well, that didn't happen. I recognized the bluff for what it was. How many times have I done stupid things like that in my past and knew I was only trying to force someone into doing or saying something that *I* wanted?
In any case, later that night he called me. I was on the other line with a friend crying my eyes out, and so he left me a message. When I checked the message it was this ridiculous "I'm going to Vegas and I won't be back!" message.
It was the most childish thing. I actually laughed when I heard it. I knew my husband was too responsible a person to just take off and leave for Vegas because he's dedicated to his job. I knew it was another bluff - stuff said out of anger to try to scare me and to make him feel better.
He obviously didn't go to Vegas - but his threat to do so pushed me into separating our finances the next day. A move I still do not regret, although it remains a sore spot for him.
So, I cannot say for sure if your AH is bluffing with the aim to hurt you and get you to bend to his will.
Our A's are master-manipulators.
Keep that contact with your HP, though. That's the right place to be. Your HP will have better answers for you than me!
I am so very sorry you are going thru this. There is nothing at all that you have done that would warrent what your husband has shared with you today. Nothing. Not a thing. Not a word you have said, not an action that you have taken or not taken. You are not at all responsible for what he has decided to do and decided to share with you. It is SICK behavior and only an attempt to control and manipulate you. That is all it is. It is hurtful and immature and all around mean and insane behavior. And any woman who is engaging in such behavior with that kind of sick and broken man is just as sick.
I am so sorry he has hurt you. I know that hurt. It just about killed me. I know it doesn't feel like it but it has nothing at all to do with you. It speaks volumes about the type of person he is. He has not been driven to do what he is doing by anything you did or didn't do so try to let that thought roll right off you. You are right, you are going to be just fine eventually. If you can stay strong thru his manipulations and lies, remember to take care of you and that you deserve a good life with a man who would never even thinking of hurting you or his kids in this way. I know such men exist. They are here on this board and they are out there in the real world.
I remember buckling over with sickness and sorrow when my ex said and did a similar thing to me. I remember thinking if I could just close my eyes and hold on tight it would all be over soon. This too shall pass. Many many (((((((Hugs)))))))))))
Aloha Mandy...The disease at it finest hour I'd say. This is how the alcoholism and addiction takes hostages. It gets the victim to react mind, body, spirit and emotions and holds them in suspension until it decides to do something else or just let go. I of course was the one that grabbed on while the threats were being dished out praying, "Oh I hope not!!" and then I just held my breath until whatever... There was lots of infidelities but no threat of infidelities because my alcoholic knew that people who make those threats out loud are really sick so she made no threats she just did it and waited to see if anyone found out. Just as sick and like yourself I had plans never to have sex with whom she had sex with (plans anyway) because of the danger.
You reliance on your HP is real when you have arrived at the point where you can hear your HP's voice. That was and still is very significant for me and it showed me that my HP now believe that I was spiritually intact enough to handle it.
Keep listening and keep coming back. "This too will pass". It may pass because you take responsibility for changing appropriately.
Oh Mandy I hate knowing the pain you are going thru. When I found my AH in this sicko womans apt. I literally almost died.
Was so horrible. I too am very attached, or was, physically to my husband.When we marry we become one, our bodies are one. It is a very, very precious part of marriage. Even if for some reason a couple cannot "consumate" it the usual way, we become intimately close in other ways.
Now my stomach hurts for you. geez and me too. sigh
Honey there is nothing anyone can say or do.The non alanoners may wonder what makes you care, you are separated anyway, he is just an addict. We, your sis and bros, know he is still your husband, a man you love very much who is terribly ill.
I can honestly say, he, the man stuck inside an addict body,loves you.
It is so sick and hurtful to tell your spouse you are going to be with someone else.
How are you doing now? do you have anywhere you can go,or have someone who will come over and sit with you?
My friends would come stay with me during my darkest moments.
I wish I could come over, sit by ya, drink tea.Bring you a warm blanket and hankies. We could watch a funny movie and laugh then cry.
Spirit knows no space or time Mandy. My heart is with you.
I certainly lived with an A who was totally self focused.During a time we were separated he alluded to that he had been sexual with someone who was the spouse of a friend of his.At one time that would have devastated me. If you can get a chance look up Al anon on the world service organization page and look up detachment. We do detachment when the pain is incredible and it seems unbearable. We can also work steps 1, 2, 3 and give the pain to God and ask for help. Certainly you are asking for it by coming here. I detached very clumsily at first, eventually the A never got a rise out of me. Did that help the grief, for me certainly it contained it.
I don't any longer know what the A thought or thinks. He has a disease and in his case he actively chose to not seek recovery.
That A kept me 'hostage" on so many levels. I took him back so many times I lost count. I took him back from betrayal, chaos, utter desolation, sickness, financial chaos, destroying stuff, criminal issues, eviction, homelessness, health issues, you name it I took him back over it. I also cried, screamed, raged and did stuff that was not necessarily that great for me.
Eventually I got to detachment and then after that to working the steps and focusing entirely on me. Of course that's not what anyone wants to hear. you want him fixed but indeed the only one you can do anything about is you. And you are worth caring about
so sorry about this horrible pain you are experiencing Mandy!! I so wish there was some way I could take it away or lessen it but there is nothing that any of us can do except love you through this which we will most assuredly do!
My AH pulled something like this before we were married. I never knew if he did it or not with a particular woman on a particular evening (how can they plan these things out for a specific night and then TELL US, I wonder, that alone makes me suspicious of it ever even happening, I think the ones who do not talk about it are the ones who are really doing it- not sure about this but I digress...) anyway, I know that deep anguish and pain and would never wish it upon anyone ever.
They are master manipulators. You will be OK. My AH thinks I am so strong, too. Why is it that this is so intimidating to them- I mean, hell, we are strong! we have to be to be involved with them!! But that does not mean that we do not CHOOSE to be in a monogamous relationship with them. Why does "being strong" and not necessarily needing but CHOOSING to be monogamous somehow make us criminals?! This disease is so baffling, cunning, etc. Ugh, I just want you to know that I understand those horrible feelings and hope that they pass quickly. Hugs and love, J.
(((Mandy)))) I am so sorry you are going through this. That threat was obviously meant to hurt and draw some kind of reaction from you. If you're able to for a minute, step back and take a look at this situation and see how sick it is. If this were a meaningful relationship that he was threatening to consumate, then he wouldn't be waving that news around on a flag. How indelicate. The alternative way to look at it is that he's telling you this in hopes that it will sting you. And guess what?? HP showed up! He's not going to let you take one breath alone through all of this.
I went through a very similar night a few years ago. It was gut-wrenching. I understand how painful this all is. But you should hold your head up. You have strength and dignity and grace. You will be standing long after the weak have fallen.
There's not much more to add. Whether it is a bluff, a manipulation or some sort of revenge it is a hurtful and hateful thing to say/do. It may just be a bluff, in which case you will have suffered for nothing. Try to stay open to that possibility. The more you suffer, the more resentment you will have. Problem is, if it is a bluff and he admits it, will you believe him?
(((hugs))) Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I wondered what ever happened to you. I know what you mean. When I lived in Washington I got a kick out restraining order against him (they took needles lying around the house as abuse or at least a danger to the kids). We were separated for 4 months, I started seeing someone else, pretty much just lost my mind... but when he started threatening to see another girl it was then that I took him back. I sure wish now I would have just rode through that and finished the divorce. I'd be saving myself a lot of money right now - literally tomorrow... When we split up again here he tried that one again. He actually slept with the girl and got arrested that night at the motel for assaulting her and that was what finished it off for me. Not completely at that moment, but it sure hurt and over time those hurts couldn't be ignored or explained away anymore. I know how hard this is. I used to make lists as to why to never go there again so I would remember and be strong after I moved out. I wouldn't take him back until his actions showed he had changed long term. I stand by that now, I'm glad I stood back and just watched to see what happened. Just like the drinking, you didn't cause this and you can't control or cure it. All you can do is stand back and watch, feel the pain and do what YOU are going to do for you.
I'm with you in spirit (even if it is raining there) :)
Just wanted to add my support for you. I wish I could take all this hurt and sadness away. It's a big "if" I know but will clearly be a huge violation.
Love ya, Maria
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If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
Yep, I recognize the old emotional blackmail. That comes hand in hand with the disease. I remember too the infidelity. It can break your heart in two like nothing else.
You allowed him the dignity of letting him make his choice, good or bad. Now how you handle that choice is up to you. It's not easy to handle. I choose to forgive the A because I didn't want to end this relationship. I knew he was in the throws of active addiction and he really doesn't remember those 1 night stands. They were pretty much meaningless. But it did hurt. Luckily, he never had a long term affair. For me, that would have been a whole different ballgame.
Just because you choose not to live with an active husband doesn't mean that you don't love him. Just like when I told AH to leave. The chaoes got to be too much. I had to take care of me. You're doing the same. You have a responsibility to yourself and family. We're standing right beside you. Go ahead cry as much as you need too. It's cathartic. Turn him over to his HP. Your HP has got your back. Sending you extra love and prayers. Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
HI (((mandy))), my dear friend and Sunday meeting partner,
You know how I love you and you know I will give you nothing but off the cuuf unconditional love. A gift wrapped box of condoms sent to him so your kids will have a father for years to come is what I would give him. Definite detachment with love and letting him know he owns his shoices. And, you sent him a gift which is always a kind gesture :)
