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I had the chat with my A a few nights ago - and he threw me a little of a left curve. I've been processing - and I have moments of such clarity - then moments of such confusion. I really need some perspective.
As most know - my A is living overseas and we re-established contact a couple of years ago (after a broken engagement 11 years ago). Everything was progressing fairly well until his slip at Thanksgiving. Following that - he informed me that he needed to focus on himself and his program and keeping his head in the here and now, and taking care of himself and his own problems. He couldn't be thinking about me all of the time - as it was a distraction from dealing with his recovery. okay....I actually agreed with that line of thinking, supported him in that, and backed off. I love this man and only want him to find recovery and live a happy life (with or without me.......truthfully). We exchanged a few brief emails over the holidays - but nothing major. I told him that I hoped we could maintain a friendship. (I've known and liked this man for 30 years).
I got the email last week that told me that he was thinking about returning to live in the states and wanted to talk to me about it. Hence the conversation.
He has been battling a health issue that he just found out will require surgery. We talked about it for a good while and he told me that the care he's receiving overseas is second to the care he would receive here. He's waited forever and ever to see doctors, etc. This health issue is not one that can wait very long. He's very concerned about it......and quite frankly, I am to.
So he's telling me about needing the surgery and how he thinks he'd be better off having it in the states. I agree and ask him what's holding him back. He tells me that he needs a place to stay until he can have the surgery and get back on his feet. I ask about different members of his family. No..no..no for various reasons. I'm out of ideas. He says, "well I was wondering if I could stay with you." (stay with me?) I hemmed and hawed and thought of the best away to approach that one. Finally I thought HONESTY would be the best way to approach it. I told him, "I'll be honest with you. I can't be roomates with you." He said, "ok ok. I understand." Told him that I was just being honest, and that I know myself well enough to know that I could never just be roomates with him. He said, "well I don't think I could be roomates with you either." (ooookay.....so what was the point of this whole thing???) He said, "I know myself, too, and I know that I would try to start a relationship back with you." All of a sudden my ego got the better of me and I said, "Oh - and that would be just an awful thing wouldn't it?" He said, "No - but I don't know if that's something that you would want." I told him that I'm not a yo-yo and I can't keep being in and out of this relationship with him. Told him that the only constant we've had is him coming in and out of my life and I can't keep doing this. It hurts me too bad. He ended up telling me that he wanted to give this relationship another try, but he honestly couldn't tell me how it would all end up because we haven't been together in 10 years and he just didn't have those answers. (Duh!) I told him that I wasn't looking for any promise of forever and ever; and that quite honestly I couldn't tell him that for myself either - all I want is for him to be HONEST with me about his INTENTIONS for coming here. Is he coming to have a place to stay for his surgery and someone to take care of him; or is he coming to be with me? He said that the whole idea was actually to come to be with me.
We said so much more - talked for a couple of hours. He sounded good. Clear. Sober. With it. The him I know and love.
We hung up with the idea being that I would think it over and we'd be in touch this week. He told me that there was no pressure. He just wanted me to think about it.
Here's where I am with this now. I know this man. I know his disease. It allows him to come up for air just long enough to let survival mode kick in; and when he's got his ducks in a row - the disease pulls him back under. This is his cycle. But for today - that's not my concern. My concern today is his immediate health condition that requires surgery. Here are my options as I see them: 1. Let him come here and "rekindle our relationship" and get his surgery and nurse him back to health knowing full well that once he's well, he may very well move on; 2. Let him come here as a platonic situation only and nurse him back to health - fully realizing that he hits the road once he's well; 3. Wish him luck with however this situation plays out for him, knowing full well that I may never hear from him ever again and will always wonder if he's alive or dead. This is my reality at this moment.
For the first few days of processing this, I thought "Oh no - he's not going to come here and play me for a fool, get what he wants from me, and leave me. No way." But today I hear myself saying, "well...this is where I am in this life....so I might as well quit fighting it.....and just pitch a cot and get comfortable in this role." So maybe I'll just tell him to come here as a platonic thing, so that he can get his surgery and have someone nurse him back to health. Somehow I'll just swallow every ounce of affection and desire that I have for him and just get on with doing the right thing. And in my mind it IS doing the right thing to help someone that you care about. I would do it for ANYONE I care about. Why can't I do it for him? Because he's an A? Because he may not want me the same way I want him? Are those good enough reasons to turn my back on someone who needs help? Can I live with myself if the worst happens and I didn't help? Can I? I'm just not so sure.
Why do I think I deserve to be loved by this man? Or by anyone? Maybe my role in this life is exactly where I am today. Not everybody gets the great relationship with the person they want. Somebody's got to do the sweaty work of simply caretaking. Not because the other person is promising anything - but because if we say we care about someone and yet we just stand there watching them suffer or die - then what kind of people are we?
And before anyone uses the word "enabling".....I just can't buy that in this situation at this moment. I just can't. I get one shot at this life and doing the right thing by the people I say I care deeply about. Yes....they may crap all over me....but that's something they'll have to live with and/or answer for in the next life. All I can do is what I think I should do - as a human being.
Please keep in mind that my eyes are wide open to the reality that is this man's life. He's not an abusive guy AT ALL - but he does suck the life out of every living thing in his presence. And he moves on. But if I KNOW that going in and simply nurse him through the surgery and back to the road so he can keep moving.....then where is that wrong?
Someone please tell me where I'm wrong or why this logic isn't logical. I'm kind of a mess right now.
Hard for an outsider to tell if this is all as well reasoned as it appears to be, or if it's mostly rationalization. Hard for you to tell, too, probably - if you're like most of us, you're a past master at fooling yourself.
So, what I would do is just sleep on it for a few days. Keep yourself open to messages from your HP and from your own inner self. How hard is it for you to maintain an attitude of serenity and detachment? How much time are you spending reminding yourself why this is a good idea? Talk to people, both inside and outside of the program, and get some idea of how this looks to them - really listen to what they have to say, rather than just arguing it away.
One thing that springs to my mind, because of the way the American medical system seems to work - what would your legal and financial position be? Is there any way that you would be liable for his medical bills, or that he would be unable to get public funding because he was living with you? Focus on that end (the practical) of things, and wait for messages from within about the other end.
When I read your post I thought gosh it seems like you're overthinking this too much, what if this and what if that. Then I read the replies and they seemed to call for more thinking. I can't say what I would do for sure. It seems to me that you have your eyes wide open and you even said that in your post right after I thought it. You know the three possible outcomes. I remember when I used to think about my A and what if's I found that it doesn't really matter. Either I'm going to help this one time or I'm not and as long as I go in knowing what the expectations are on both sides then I don't get AS hurt. I can't spend my life running from feeling hurt though, it's going to happen, sometimes we can avoid it, sometimes we can't, sometimes the hurt is good for us and shows us a direction, we may not like it at the time but in the end it is beneficial.
I would never say this is enabling, it sounds like a life threatening illness. I would assume that the idea is to fix him and he moves on. If something else happens it happens but there's no way to plan how it will go. I tried to control too much the outcomes of things but we have to take life on life's terms, sometimes that means we get hurt, sometimes that means we find love, but if we don't live it we never know and only one thing is for sure and that's that we can't control it. So I know I have been in situations questioning whether to help my A and the last time I did I got acceptance, it was sad and somewhat hurtful but it gave me peace. No matter how many different ways you think this through it all comes down to the simple fact that it will go however it's going to go and you won't know the outcome until you're in it.
I got really caught up in the illness thing with my ex A. A few years ago he was diagnosed with a muscular/skin disorder. He had horrible treatment for a year (a year in which I largely supported him) then relapsed. I am sure whatever drugs he was taking contributed. Last summer when he was homeless and out there, his illness was much much worse. I simply could not say "no" to him. He had our dogs with him and believe me he used them as a great wedge to get me to help him. The A who I was with is a veteran, he gets great really superior care there no strings attached. His doctor agreed he should be on disability.
I had no ability at the time to negotiate how much I could give. His family were gone, long burned out. His mother comes in when she feels like it. Right now I believe she is in contact because she doesn't want to look bad to some relatives he is staying with. I felt totally absolutely bound to help him.
The issue for me was after time would he do the same for me. I looked long and hard at when I was ill and I did not see the same self sacrifice, compassion, focus or even interest. He was never ever even remotely interested when I was ill. I was hospitalized three times when I was with him, once for a serious infection, once for severe depression and once for a really terrible asthma attack. I hate to say this but at no time did he show much interest.
So I was in caregiver mode super heavy last summer, really working to make sure he was taken care of and being in codependency recovery I had to ask myself was this reciprocal. The answer was a big "no".
For me as a recovering codependent when someone "needs" me it is a huge issue because I view "need" as "love" when it isnt necessarily the kind of mature love that I really require to thrive in my life. The A certainly needed me to help smooth out his many many crises, support his lifestyle and care for him but it wasn't reciprocal. He claimed it was but when push came to shove, when I was hospitalized it wasn't.
I held tremendous tremendous fantasies about someday this man would learn to love me and somehow that would transcend everything. I have had to really look at how much those fantasies drove me.
I am a very caring compassionate, loving person. The issue for me is to have a relationship where its reciprocal rather than I give till I am exhausted and then end up mired in resentment because I didn't get anything and last but not least my fantasy didn't transpire into reality.
R3- one red flag (and its a biggie, in my mind) is that no one else will take him in or seems to think that he is in a bad enough situation to help him. Only you do. Something to think about. More soon, hugs, J.
You know that I support you and your progress in recovery. I think we are in a similar situation in that I have been married over 30 years, he left, said he didn't love me, hated the relationship, I "can't focus on myself" because of YOU, your dysfunction, etc., etc. I love this man and always will. Miss him terribly. He calls now and then, asks for advice, treats me nice, reminds me of old times and that man that I love so much. Honestly, what I am coming to realize is that the good guy and the bad guy are both the disease. The AHSober always has that disease working it's program underneath what he says and does. One thing I know for sure is that he really believes what he says and does but I don't think that he is aware of the impact. And there is always an impact on me. I don't really believe anything he says anymore because it is only in the moment.
What should you do? Dunno. What should I do? Dunno. I listen more and more to my HP. I don't always like the answer especially when it may mean life without my AHsober.
I agree with Jean big red flag! Look out for you and if you do you have the possibility to making other friends that are healthy if you get totally consumed by him you may feel like you have no other options.
Thank you to everyone for such wonderful insight. I'm giving pause and thought to each and every one of your responses. I'm scared. I'm scared no matter which way I go with this. This isn't a "happily ever after" story in the making. I know that. God - I wish it were. I really, really do.........but I know it's not. Believe it or not - other than what appears to be this one soft spot in my cranium, I'm otherwise intelligent and can usually see the big picture fairly easily. He's my silver bullet, though. Always has been.
As far as no-one else taking him in: he hasn't asked anyone in the states to take him in (except me). For various reasons - some I'm sure have to do with knowing the response he would get, some he just doesn't want to be around. He SAYS he's not coming back to the states to be around those people - he wants to be with me. Yeh...yeh...yeh.....I know. I know you think I have "sucker" stamped on my forehead. I know. (for the record...I checked and I don't - but I have no idea what kind of sign might be stuck to my back!)
Anyway....I'm far from knowing what I'm going to do yet. I'm still in the "I want what I want" stage of things. Silly and foolish, I know, but I've got to work through it.
Am I craving turmoil? Am I wanting to rescue? Do I think this will change him in some way? Those are the things I'm looking hard at. I think I can honestly say that I realize this won't change him in any way. I know it won't - and I don't look for that. Maybe I'm craving a little turmoil - perhaps - just something to shake things up. Rescuing? Mmm- that's likely. I want to matter to this man - as much as he matters to me.
I'm still processing all of this. Your input is SO valuable to me. I welcome all of it. You guys know your stuff. THANK YOU for sharing it with me.
Wow - tough situation. (When is a situation with an A ever NOT tough, though?)
I agree with Jean and Glad, though, no one will take him in even though his illness is supposed to be so dire. No other family or friends... so who's the "sure thing" for him. You, of course. He knows he can always depend on you to bend over backwards for him.
The word "detachment" comes to my mind right now. I understand your wanting to help someone with serious medical issues, but at the same time, you have a need to protect yourself - your heart, your mind, your physical being. Someone with that kind of history with you has a lot of potential to really unwind all the work you've done for yourself.
Obviously, there's no easy answers that I have.
If it were me, I'd be wishing for some crazy magic wand I could wave over the situation where I'd hope he could make it back to the states to get the medical care he needs, but he is not admitted into a position where I am responsible for his well being.
I think back to your third option... You know that if the contact is broken, it will have been his choice. Not yours. We all risk that if we ever leave a relationship with our A's. We all worry that they'll never get better, maybe do something stupid and end up dead. But again - *we have no control over that*. When we leave the As in our lives it is for self-preservation. OUR life depended on our leaving the A because it just got too dangerous, either physically or emotionally or both.
There's a reason you left your A or he left you in the first place.
Hope you can spend some time thinking things through with your HP. Hugs to you.
Another red flag I noticed: near the end of your post you seem to be almost talking yourself out of deserving better than he is willing or able to give. It sounded to me like rationalizing a relapse for yourself. Just wanted you to take another look at that. I think that taking some time to think about it is a really good idea.
Love in recovery,
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
I dunno R3, there is something very odd here. Cannot put my finger on it. I just think that if he REALLY was having a serious medical problem the situation would be different. I see a whole lot of energy/emphasis weighing on this supposed medical issue. If it is so incredibly important, dire, serious, etc. there would be more people involved.
Why is he honing in on you and only you? Because he knows you will take the bait, R3. Is it possible that when he says he does not want to contact the others it really means he has burned his bridges with them?! They have said: "No" too many times? No longer useful to him/his disease?
How would you feel if he were lying about all of it? The "medical problem"? The wanting to start things with you again? What if he has burned his last bridge there and needs to get out and has no one else to turn to and no where else to go? How much destruction does he need to wage in order for you to say "no"? How much destruction did he have to wage in order for the others to turn their backs?
Is it possible that the most loving and kindest thing you could do for him right now would be to say "no" also (along with everyone else) so he hits a bottom and faces the reality of his life? Hugs, J.
Jean - I would love to be able to dismiss everything you just posted - but your words are striking all kinds of familiar chords. It shakes me up a bit. Certainly there are people who would say "no" to him - and that are no longer "useful" to him. Absolutely. Certainly there are people where he is that are in the process of closing doors. And if I'm really honest here, I'll tell you that he said "things are crashing around me here and I'm ready to get out".
I do believe the medical condition. No, I have no way of proving that it exists, but it's been going on for quite awhile and I checked the condition online. Doesn't prove that he has it...but for now, I can buy that part of it.
And it hurts to think that he's lying about wanting to start things with me again. But if I get real still and look at the big picture of this story - I have to consider that as a real possibility. He's a master manipulator. I'd like to believe that he has the capacity to actually have real feelings.....but how would I know which of the feelings he has are the real ones?
Aloha - you're exactly right that he has the potential to really unwind all of the work I've done on myself. Guess that's showing a bit, huh?
I'm really digging deep right now and trying to figure out what will be the best for my life. I'm also thinking about what's the worst that I can handle and still live with. I AM asking myself that question. Foolish?
Hope is a very hard thing for me to let go of.
Thanks for hanging in there with me as I struggle with this. Your words are making a real impact with me.
R3, you know in a way, it does not matter what you choose to do because regardless, its going to be OK. You are exactly where you are supposed to be according to HP!
Be gentle with yourself. No matter what you do, you are loved by many here. We are not going away and we are not going to stop loving, caring or listening to you- no matter how you feel or how you arrive- come as you are. Hugs and lots of love in serenity, J.
I've been in one of those long term in and out things. Through Al-Anon I have learned to give up hope and that I must accept that she cannot forgive and that though things may change, it will be very little. We still like to push each others buttons but I keep at least three feet distance and by staying physically distant I can stay emotionally distant. I have learned how to love her platonicly and will say I feel much better about myself cause I seem to be kinder since I'm not roped into a relationship.
Yeah I agree he's playing a few strings. At least he's knows how to be considerate in a pinch.:) From a guys point of view I think He is playing them rather nicely. I would want ot be there for someone I'd known for so long but I'm not sure about the nursemaiding thing. I am willing to nursemaid my Mom but she has taught me a few things. Her insurance covers things well if she lives alone and has no help. All the help we give is just taken advantage of by the insurance companies. At this point, the more we do, the less they do. Its as if we enable the insurance companies to abuse her by loving her.
When they are done doing all they can, We'll be there.
Despite the truely dismal state of my love life :) and the hopelessness echoing around me I cling to these Al-Anon Promises. If nothing else I consider opportunties to work my pragram as a chance to make some progrees. Can't quite get the perfection part.
Thanks, Tugg. I REALLY needed to read those promises. And thanks for your perspective, as well. The more I read on this board, the more I'm able to see the big picture. It's been so helpful.
