The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Okay this is a share and a direct question - so those that feel they really are familiar with the Alanon "way" please direct me.
I am tired of the "trash" ways in our life. Meaning beer cans everywhere, boyfriend's job is with all (dirty) blue collar workers and boss (as recent post will testify) and they drink on the job very often from 4:30 to stop which can be late sometime. And I am finished with the "shack Up" situation. Although I don't want to get legally married with all this in our lives.
Question: I belive HP can work it out better than I can. Does HP expect me to draw some reasonable lines too.
For instance I could tell BF that my conditions for staying together are that he get professional help such as medicine from doctor(as I truely believe he drinks because 1. he is self medicating for all sorts of verifiable issues, he has good reason to be this way! and is doing a good job for what he has been through! 2. His body must have a dependance on it by now as he drinks more than 10 -12 beers a night/ day and it is getting so much worse as he thinks of trying AA etc. Just like I crave chocolate and Dr. Pepper every time I think of dieting.
He also must have some type of treatment program- AA or plan of his choice.
And consider another job of his choice.
Okay if I set all or some of these boundries am I really just controlling- should I leave it up to HP and if he directs me to do so just leave him when ready and let him figure out a plan of his own. This sounds more like what I think AALanon would suggest.
know there is the idea of detaching and not being white trash just because his life looks that way- this is a difficult concept for me to grasp as it is hard to see how you can share your life-the two become one and be detached enough to not be that way.
The selfish part of me leans toward drawing all the boundries. Something else (possibly HP ) is directing me to just get my life together and not do anything myself to progress the "trash" and increase good things to make myself more the type of person I have respect for. Work hard develop good relationships, attend services and alanon. and not react when "trash" comes our way. This will take more effort as I am "hit" with all kinds of issues every moment I am with him. So I would like to know what the terms of alanon would direct and or anyones thoughts. Don't worry about being direct as I am very good at taking what I like or see as good and leaving the rest but would like to consider all responses so please don't hesitate.
I am not asking anyone to make a decision for me, just input.
I need to add (about the meds.) that I see his face change-and his personality just "poof" change at certain events. Mostly a call from his mom with some "controling" or demanding issue. It's like his whole being just changes. and I need to add with regard to encourageing/ insisting he get on some medicine more than one time we have had up to five minutel conversations, ones he has responded to (with a light comment or light response) then the next day or so he will say something that lets me know he has no memory of the comment or conversation. Last time it was about politics. and (I think) was before he had too many beers but I'm not sure? I used to think-He doesn't value me because he never listens to anything I say but I am recently worried that he may have some kind of split personality? Or he is drunk more often than I know? or maybe he can't remember things. But it really hurts my feelings when I see him remember things others have said and not me- wow can't figure that one out! Of course I know hearing me talk about anything I care deeply about - even politics can sound threating to him and he may "shut down" because of his insecurities and not because he doesn't care for me. I am rather " energetic" when I get going about politics- and I notice he retains info that is said in jest or "lightly" and his family kinda talks "at" eachother rather than "with" eachother but Either way it scares me sometimes surely he has interacted with other individuals enough that if there were not a physical reason for this he would have picked up more communication skills? I think it would be a real shame if there is some med out there that can help him be more comfortable and we just don't know about it.
The answer to your question lies within. Only you know if you would be setting these boundaries to control or because you want more in life. It does sound controlling because the demands are all things he must do so you will stay. You will be asking him to choose. Only do that if you are sure you can handle the answer. Boundaries are set to protect us. So, are you protecting yourself or making demands? Figure that out and you'll have your answer.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I am passing this on to you because I found it so profoundly beneficial to my work on detachment. My f2f home group used this worksheet to study detachment and it was a wonderful study.
http://coping.org/control/detach.htm
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Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it.
Wow M thanks for the worksheet it's alot of info about something I really don't understand. I think it really will help. You were directed by HP today and I'm so thankful to HP and you! Will post how it helps and what I think!
If you are saying to him "I need you to do A,B, and C for ME to be ok" well, that hasn't worked yet, has it? But if you are saying that "I can no longer live this way and I have changed and I will no longer accept A,B and C and I am willing to leave if these things continue" then you are taking care of yourself. Taking the focus of of them is the absolute most challenging thing I have ever done. I justitfied his drinking and drugging to anyone who would listen ( the abuses he suffered, the life he led, he was self medicating, anyone would who had been thru what he had....) and what does that tell anyone about me? Nothing. What does that say about what I want out of life? Nothing. And to be quite honest, at this point, I have lived thru more than he ever even dreamed of and I sit here sober and sane (mostly). So, there goes his and my justifications right out the window.
Only you can decide what you want out of life. There is nothing wrong in making your decisions on a day to day basis. During the last year or so that we were together, I woke up every morning and made a decision to stay married for that day. He had his choices, I had mine.
Good luck Glad, the answers will make themselves clear. I prayed and I was released. You are a strong, smart woman and you will do what is best for you, of that I am sure!
Boundaries are for you not for him. I agree with serendipity. If you are unwilling to live that way anymore and willing to follow through with the consequences you set for yourself IE he drinks I leave.... Or whatever it may be then you are setting boundaries. For me I don't have to tolerate being treated badly, being talked to nastily, having alcohol around me, etc. etc. and I don't. Your boundaries of what YOU are willing to accept and not accept are up to you.
I hear you saying you want to change yourself, you don't like the trash around the yard, the job he has, his drinking, I'm just wondering what exactly is it that you DO like about him? You know I look back at my A and I can't say anymore. I know what I used to like about him, but that's not the same as the reality of now.
Changing self is what our program is about. Learning about ourselves, loving ourselves, finding out what is acceptable and unacceptable about ourselves past and present and working toward a better self in the future and helping others at that also is the program...the steps. It doesn't come over night and it does come with sincere honesty and a secure willingness to change. I kinda heard you knocking at that door in your post.
This is a program of suggestions from those who have walked the walk and can define what worked for them and passing that on clearly and honestly. Advise is about talkers and much of it is not experience but opinions and thoughts. I learned along the way to ask a person who was giving me advise if they had done it themselves or did they just think it up. I need stuff that has been done because I need solutions that worked for others and might work also in some way for me.
Study of the steps takes years of listening to others express their walk and understandings new and old. Good sponsors are worth their weight in gold and diamonds and the recovery they bring to the program can actually save lives not to mention minds and spirits. Getting a good sponsor is maximum self care and self love. Getting a good sponsor is also a sign that HP really does exist and really does love and care for you. HP wants you alive, sane and able to help others after you have done your time in program. The disease wants you dead.
What the program did for me first, against my will and against my awareness was to hook me up with a power greater than myself who could and would lead me to Sanity. I got the second part of the 1st step later on. The first part I already arrived at from my pride and ego.
Sanity!! How could I ever hope to get out of this trouble with the mind, habits and oppositionally definant character I used to get into it. There was no way I could change on my own need. Luck was against me and my brain was still in it's original box. I did not know what I was dealing with (me or alcoholism) and I didn't not know that I did not know. I was lost in a maze bumping into things without lights and no hope of an exit. I needed a Higher Power. That took time. I had issues. I followed dumb (but better than what I had then)suggestions...first a door knob; then a vaccuum cleaner and then a god of my understanding. I followed and followed and followed and kept coming back.
Here is a very important question I was asked and only referred(s) to me (not the alcoholic or anyone else I blamed) early on. How do I expect to get where I want to get doing the things I am doing the way I am doing them? It never was about the alcoholic. The alcoholic was another of my choices. How I got together with her, lived with her, drank with her, used with her, and all the other things I did with her was about my insanity. How could I expect to get the peace of mind and serenity, the close family, the happy family, the white picket fence metaphorically by marrying the women I drank with and drinking the way I was drinking? There was no chance in that happening and if for some reason HP set it up for me...in 24 hours I'd have it and the box it came in out in the trash. It was un-reasonable at best and impossible in reality. And then came the sickest part...trying to get all the good stuff by changing another human being (the alcoholic), the world around me and everyone else in it. In reality I was blaming everyone other than myself for my condition and holding them responsible for my happiness and sadness.
After a while I started abbreviating the 1st part of the 1st step for me and leaving out alcohol; "We admitted we were powerless...period; and that our lives have become unmanagable." I could see my wife's life as screwed up and couldn't see my own...more clues for insanity.
Setting up those values and boundaries that you have or are thinking about and following thru on them work best from before I get into the relationship or any other choice and hardest after the bad taste lodges itself in my mouth and all over my body, mind and spirit.
I gave up my values. I violated my values when I decided to live in the hell of alcoholism and drug abuse and all the other promises that come to reality in that life style. I violated my values...she didn't. I wanted her and demanded that she live by my values even while I was not. More clues for insanity.
Could I look back over my past to find others to blame? My mother perhaps? My deceased (too early) father and the hand picked alcoholic replacement? Could I blame my grand-fathers and crazy aunts and peodphile uncles who used drugs and alcohol and held their families at gun point during insane rampages? I had no excuses except that I made the decisions. At times I made the decisions and when they came out bad as they were supposed to (historically) I asked God to make it right for me. More clues for insanity. God doesn't work that way in my mind, in my experience and in my belief. God will help me out of the problem and into the solutions If I am honest and willing about doing that and willing to do the work. If I won't...God won't!
Like you I knew alot about my alcoholic; what she drank, how she drank, how much she drank, when and where and with whom (besides me that is.) I had other clues and suspicions also and I was told in program this that was very normal for someone who is deeply invested and fixated on another person...also called addiction. Insanity became normal...that doesn't sound good even today.
I had to start somewhere. Get fixated on the program...the steps and traditions. Get focused on my life and honest about it's condition. I had to find out and own how I had gotten myself into that situation and I had to have a sincere willingness to do whatever it was necessary to change that while building the most important relationship I need to have; A relationship with the God of my understanding.
This is a long reply. My really caring replies are long. It is filled with awareness, love, and hope for you (and your alcoholic) and the firm belief that if you work this program the way it is supposed to be worked you will regain a life so amazingly worth living and you will be able to explain to those you are directed to touch what a real miracle looks like, sounds like, feels like and comes from.
I wish that for you. It all starts with a single step.
So are you saying these are MY boundaries in a relationship? If so, he does not choose to abide by them, then you break up?
What are the consequences? Are you ready to move on?
We can only control ourselves. We can only change us. It is up to each individual to choose how they want to live. It is one thing to compormise,another to want to change someone else.
Sweetheart this is HIM. We all want to be accepted as we are,loved for who and what we are. How would you feel if he said to you, I have boundaries, in order to have a relationship, I want someone to drink with, to go to bars and play pool and gamble?
He uses becuz he is an A. People do not all self medicate. Most people go to a doctor and get help from them.
He uses becuz he wants to be high.
My AH is very mentally ill.As soon as he found out the doc would not give him narcotics for his illnesses...out the door he went.
When he was clean for years, he was on an anti depressant, vitamins, would not touch an aspirin.
When he got ill again after the brain surgery,back on zanax, morphine,vicodin...no way did he want to go back to nothing, boring good meds for his depression, bipolar, mpd, etc.
An A uses to use. period.
I would venture to guess most A's don't communicate well becuz they are brain damaged.If they stay on program for along time, it can get better.
I know my A thought great things, had opinions when he was on good program.
Hon most all of us want to think they are self medicating. An alcoholic is allergic to alcohol! it is poison to them.
We are in alanon to work on us, in a way we enable them to believe they are self medicating. Remember his/her disease is their own.We have NOTHING to do with it, stick the 3 c's in here.
May I say when we are still thinking they are self medicating, or making other excuses,denial comes to mind.
What makes us even delve into their stuff? To NOT focus on ourself. We are addicted to our A.And how do we not be controlled by our addiction? We are powerless, we follow our Alanon twelve steps and traditions.
We are in alanon the same as the A is in AA,to take care of US for a change. The addict learns to live with being powerless over drugs by aa.
We learn how to live with being powerless over our A by alanon.
I hope something here helps you.Said in love,believe me.
I like the worksheet on detachment as I never really understood why that was possible before and I didn't understand the benifits of doing so. It really sounds like a way to have a good relationship with anyone much less an A. and the views on "self medicating" are helpful, so what if he is or not that is not about me, and the only person I can change is me. Thank you,Thank you thank you thank you! Learning and growing, Glad
Glad - I just went through that same thing with my AH.
I thought what I was doing was setting boundaries, but in reality, I was really just making demands.
I told my AH "If you drink again, I will leave."
This put everything - EVERYTHING on my AH - something he did NOT need. As someone else said, it was me telling him he had to do "X" for ME to be okay.
Kind of takes the wind out of the sails of the A getting sober and staying sober for their own benefit. Also puts them into a FANTASTIC position to blame YOU for their misery when they're struggling with not drinking and having a bad day thereof.
It wasn't a fun position I put my AH and I in at all. He was miserable because he thought I was just watching and waiting for him to screw up just once so I had an excuse to leave. I was miserable because he kept blaming his not being able to drink on me and I was walking into this turbulent atmosphere of frustration and anger every time I'd come home. AND, I was miserable because I did NOT like him thinking all I was doing was watching and waiting for him to screw up. I didn't like his assuming I was ready to leave at any given moment - because honestly, I WASN'T, I just wanted him to feel better and take care of himself by staying away from the alcohol. That that's the point. It was something I wanted of someone else. I was pinning my happiness on another person.
Not the thing to do for my recovery. Happiness comes from within.
So, about a week ago, I lifted that threat from my AH, and it was a tremendous relief... for BOTH of us.
I still have boundaries and am still working through what I'm willing to try to put up with in our relationship and what are deal-breakers for me... but I'm keeping that stuff to myself, because it's for ME, not him.
Hope this helps.
I can tell you, though, I prayed to my HP like mad for two days - every single moment my brain had a moment of nothing going on in it, I'd pray. And my HP answered me through another Al-anon member who snapped me out of it and called what I was doing for what it was. I was trying to control an alcoholic.
STEP ONE: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
