The material presented
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to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Okay, so I gave some thought to this after all your wonderful posts in response to my current situation. I think I get out of it...1. The ability to believe that I am having a relationship with him that he is now sober and present for which I never did when he was out of jail. 2. The ability to believe that he is interested in the things his child and I are doing- which he never did out. 3. Being validated as someone involved and important in his life- obviously not always the case out of jail 4. The ability to think he is consistently there to talk to- ie now that he is behind bars. Sounds pathetic I know but I have wanted those things for so long- particularly the ability to "pretend" we are having a realtionship as a family- something that he use to remind me often that we were not. Also, I must admit that the term "door mat" bothered me in the last posts. In the spirit of honesty, I must admit that it bothers me greatly to think that HE sees me that way. I can accept that others may have that opinion of me, but here again, it really bothers me more that you all think he sees me in that negative light. I know how sick that sounds as I write it. :) Again,thanks for all the love and support!
Hon, all of those are about him - what about you? What does he give to *you*, how does he enrich *your* life, what delights *you*? Yes, it feels good to feel that we are loved, valued, and appreciated, but the real sense of self worth needs to come from within. And, it cannot come from fooling ourselves. The love that we give and the love that we get need to be in rough balance.
It doesn't really mater how he sees you. And it doesn't really matter how WE see you. What matters is how you see yourself.
Co - what you are describing is a "pretend" relationship. If he is behind bars and limited in his freedom to do and have the things and people and situations that he wants, then you really have no idea what this "relationship" is. You may or may not have an actual relationship with this man, but you yourself said that things are good in your relationship when he is in jail. That scares me for you. Because I see myself in your shoes. My A has never been imprisoned in a physical sense, but his a-ism has certainly limited his freedom of choice in his life. I stepped up.
Jerry said something in a post yesterday that really stuck in my brain. He said something about how his A would sleep with any "Tom, Dick or Harry.....or Jerry" and that she didn't choose him, he chose her. That really shook me. I began thinking about my own A. Did he ever choose me? Or was I the last one left to choose? I certainly chose him.
"Doormat" has lots of negative connotations, but so does being stepped on and taken advantage of in the way you described in your earlier post. I can say this, because I've been in your shoes. I've been forced to look at my own part in my situation. What did I allow? What did I ignore? How far into the fantasy of a real relationship with this man was I willing to go? If we were on equal ground - would he choose me? Gosh, I want the answer to that question to be yes. And I want the answer to that question to be "yes" for you, too. Can you say that? If he were clean and sober and living the good life, would he choose you to spend his life with? Not that you're not worthy - because I can tell from your posts that you are a loving, caring, compassionate, deserving woman. But would he choose you? And if not, why would you want that in your life?
We deserve to be treated as well as we treat our A's. Why would we accept less? Why would be DEFEND less?
None of what you said sounds pathetic. At all. It sounds honest and very familiar. Look at how much you are recognizing!!! The clouds are lifting and you are aware! That is huge!!! Next comes acceptence and then action. No time frame, just seems once our eyes are open they can't be shut again.
I have just come to the understanding that my ex sees all women in the same way. I thought I was different from his first wife, that he really saw me as different from her. That is why he could treat her with disrespect and contempt for no good reason but would NEVER treat ME that way. And here I am, I AM her. I'm not, I am what I am but HE sees me the exact same way as he sees her. To him, we are stupid. We are gullible and we got exactly what we deserved from him (abuse and STD's). His kids are nothing to him. They are by-products or his relationships with us. They are not unique or human beings. They are the consequence of sleeping with two very stupid women. And away he walks and no one knows the real truth of him. He is all he is in his world and the rest of us are just 2 dimentional characters to further his "play". Manipulation is all he knows. He can't even comprehend love. His "working" his 12 step program and all the years and years of councling he went thru has only given him a better idea of how to imitate human emotions. I know this sounds harsh of me. It is what I know now to be true and let me tell you how much it hurt. It killed me to know that he is incapable of feeling the way I am.
Now, I finally accepted that is the way it is. Still ticks me off, but makes mch more sense than trying to get him to understand, to love and respect me and the kids. I have become numb in a sense because of this. I know he has a disease. I know he is sick. I know I did major amounts of damage to myself before I knew better. And alot even after I knew better. The longer I came, the more questions I asked, the more unconditional love I recieved in this program, the easier it became to love myself. It has taken a long time. But it has happened for me. I slip ALOT but I never lose it.
I don't think you sound pathetic or like a doormat. You sound like a human being with a heart who is starting to see. And it is a process and it isn't always pretty. But you are doing it. Respect is huge for me today. If I don't respect myself, then I don't respect others (including the A) and no one will respect me. Now, my kids are older and I am a single mom and I don't just want them to respect me or think they should because I am their mother, I NEED them to. Because if they don't we're all screwed. My ex MIL was this wonderful victim and she just "loved" too much to do what was right for her kids. Consequently, they were allowed to do whatever whenever and never learned how to repsect other people. Much less themselves. She "loved" the A's so very much that she let them do whatever they pleased to her....beat her, rape her, use her, bankrupt her, abuse her kids.....she "loved" them after all. And they "loved" her until they found a new woman to "love" them and then they were gone and she was left with nothing but her victimhood. It is a good lesson for me to remember. I don't want to be that. I want to give and recieve real love. And it's not going to be from my ex. Heartbreaking because all I ever wanted was a family (he said the same thing....bet he tells the new GF that all he ever wanted was to NOT have a family as she has no kids....?) But my HP will put in my life those who will love me and respect me and I will be able to love and respect. Not pity and enable.
I guess I vented a bit here, sorry. All I really wanted to tell you is you are not alone and you sound like you have both eyes wide open.
I hope things work out for you but people will say anything when they are locked up but only you know the real him. Question: In the past when he has been locked up or "away", does he normally make himself avaialble to you without wanting anything from you or does he just disappear?
I did that for years with my oldest daughters father. He was in and out of jail all the time. I drove my mother crazy with the phone bills, moving all the time. I finally left him, it was hard getting away, he beat up any guy I dated after that. I left state with my sons father and never went back because of him. He spent the rest of his years in and out of prison. He graduated from jail to prison.
Thank God I got away from him. But the torment didn't stop, when my daughter turned a teen, he helped her get out there to him by sending train tickets. I got her back through the juvenile interstate compact. During that time she told me it was terrible being with him. She found herself cleaning up his needles in the garage. At age 18 I couldn't stop her. She left again, and the courts couldn't help me. I prayed to my HP. The night she arrived there the FBI picked him up for forging a lottery ticket out of Vegas. He spent the next 3 years in prison, and my daughter was safe.
Think about what you are doing....are you helping or enabling?
