The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
The poster's concern about whether or not to ask a partner not to drink when they are together. Of interest were most of the replies because they suggested that we have no right to ask anyone not to drink when we are present. I can see that we might not ask co-workers or casual aquaintances; we can simply avoid them if we do not like being around drinking....
But...one's PARTNER???? Now think a minute. I have no right to ask my partner not to drink in my presence? He has to make his own decisions and I should have nothing to say? What about MY right to peace? I am confused here kiddies. One of the boundaries I have set is "no drinking around me." Remember BOUNDARIES? I think this poster has every right to ask partner to leave the drinking alone when they are together. Suffering in silence is not a virtue. So why should one suffer while the other gets wasted?
SOmetimes I just don't get it.
As an aside to the new poster...Welcome to MIP. All of us here want to make you welcome and hope you can glean some helpful information from those present. Your question sparked my mind, and, as many will tell you, that's a sure sign I'll make a controversial post. LOL!!! Thanks for getting me thinking.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
My whole point here was you can't make someone not drink around you. You can either be with them or not. So my question to you is what do YOU do if you tell your partner no drinking around me and then he does? That's the boundary!
Thanks CG. LOL!! Here's what I do. He knows the boundary. So, sometimes he decides it might be a good idea to buy a bottle of vodka, and I know when he takes the first sip. Most alcoholics are not good at hiding their drinking. I will not allow my A to drive (another boundary) so I haul him and his bottle off to a cheap motel, check him in, and tell him to call me when he decides to sober up.
I made up my mind a while ago not to kick him out for good, so this compromise works for me. When the times comes, anything works for him as long as he can have his bottle of vodka with him. He is a binger, so I do not have to face this problem often. Once or twice a year.
Have a great day CG!!!
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
That's how my A was... binger... I hated that because just when you thought you could trust again...BAM.
Anyway, so what if he becomes belligerent and won't obey? Then what do you do? What if he takes the keys and leaves and you can't stop him or if he refuses to leave and go to a motel?
Just curious. My A wasn't as friendly as yours LOL.
CG, there is not a bellicose or quarrelsome bone in his body. He becomes quiet and sulky, but no, he is not the kind to put up a fuss or refuse. WHen he starts to drink, all he cares about is that bottle of vodka. If he has that, he's good to go!! Yes, you are right. Binging is tough. It happens over and over again. About the time my trust builds back up, WHAM!! So, I have finally learned not to trust. I expect it, so when it happens I am no so devastated as I used to be.
But...if the things you mention were to happen - not likely - I would tell him to pack up his things and move on. I know me, and I know what I would not tolerate. So does he.
Take care,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Back when I was seeing and had been living with an exbf A. it took me a long time to understand that indeed, everyone has "rights".
I finally became strong enuf to tell him that I could see he enjoyed his vodka and that was ok .. he was an adult and had every right to his choices. However, I had rights too, and I "chose" not to have drinking around me and my kids. Oh, he tried me ...several times; but this time I stuck to my decision. Unfortunately for him (lol), the vodka ruled and that eventually was the end of our relationship.
My point is .... that was oh my, prolly 16 yrs ago!!!! Since then he has spent time in prison for his DWI's and I have remarried. We are still occasional friends, but he has many times told me that he knew that was the turning point in my own life .....when I got strong enuf to state my own choices and boundaries.
Every human does have their own "rights" ... but they do not have the "right" to infringe upon our own peace of mind and safety.
Love and hugs, Irish
ps. I have to add here.... that when I set that boundary, I knew the possibilities. Actually I knew he was an alcoholic and would not be able to not drink. I did understand that my reaction was just that..... my own reaction, and I had to carefully consider whether I was able to live with the consequences of my own boundary. So much healing has to take place when we have suffered the effects of alcohol on our lives ..... sometimes the effects are so great, that we simply cannot have alcohol in our lives. Only we know that and can make that decision.
For me, if my husband has no problem with his alcohol, I wouldn't ask him not not to drink around me. I do think it is appropriate to sit down and talk about the issues I have. It's like hubby asking me not to drink around him because he has a problem. He never has asked that of me. But because I love and respect him, I choose not to drink around him. I'm sorry if I mislead anyone in my post. I'm suffering from a terrible sinus headache and am a bit fuzzy. I absolutely do think it is appropriate to discuss one's feelings with one's partner, husband, wife, etc. But what they do with it, is pretty much up to them. Hopefully the other person will respect the other person's feelings to do what is best for both of them. I think a happy, healthy relationship comes down to love, respect, laughter, compromise and really good communication with one another. Hope this clarifies my position. Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I just began participating in a Traditions study group and I highly recommend it in re: dealing with marriages, partnerships, friendships, co-workers, etc. If the steps teach us how to deal with ourselves, the traditions certainly teach us how to deal with others like friends, family and co-workers. Diva, you may want to find or start a Traditions study group- its really fascinating and really helpful: I mean, once you get some tools and get a certain level of serenity, its great to then go out and use 'em in a larger and larger context and the Traditions point the way. Here is the CAL I recommend for starting either a Step study or Tradition study group: PATHS TO RECOVERY: Al-anon Steps, Traditions and Concepts. Just a suggestion, Hugs, J.
I have to agree with you. I do believe that rights are for all not just the A's in our lives. And I admire your style too. It is cool that you have boundaries and that you make them and stick to them.
If those boundaries are broken then you standby your word and don't put up with the fact that the A has broken your boundary. I think that is fair, it let's the A know where s/he stands and identifies your stance too.
Love it. I always learn from your thoughts and posts. Thank you.
Hopefulheart
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"The highest form of wisdom is kindness." The Talmund
As a single guy, looking into and wanting a permanent relationship..... I don't see me as having a "right" to ask/expect any prospective partner not to drink (particularly if they have no addictions), but I DO have a right AND a choice of whether or not I choose to enter into a relationship with them, based on that above criteria. I think it's pretty natural that most of us are "more sensitive" to this particular area than most of the general public.
Personally, I just want to find a person where alcohol is NOT a major factor in their lives.
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I had that boundary for a long time, no drinking no using around me. He still used. I found it helpful but I think I needed to go further. These days if I know someone uses some substance I flag it. I do not choose to spend that much time around them. I see anyone who uses as a potential alcoholic. I do not caution them try to save them or 12 step them, I just flag my interaction. I choose actively these days not to be around anyone who is using. I am not sure that is all that helpful some days. I still have to deal with some people who do but I limit my interactions as much as possible. In time I hope to be in an entirely alcohol/drug free environment.
Jean, the steps and traditions are not new to me, and I have read all the literature I could get my hands on. But, at the end of the day, we all must think for ourselves. My approach works for me. Two words sum it up. Boundaries kept. And serene? I couldn't be much "serener." No analysis of my mind or methods is necessary. I am happy, strong, and focused in my life and in the way I have chosen to deal with the A in my otherwise giddily idyllic existence. I simply enjoy hearing others' views, and am apt to ask a question once in a while that requires some thought. It is not necessary for us all to be carbon copies of one another. (Notice I did not use the phrase "cookie cutters"). LOL!!! AlAnon has saved me during my journey more than one time, so I am not berating its effectiveness. Never would. Thanks for your response and all the others too. I have enjoyed reading each and every one of them.
Best to all,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
For me its about what boundaries can I have. I tend to spend a lot of time alone at the moment. I find boundaries overwhelming. I can understand how I either merge or isolate. There is no inbetween state for me. I feel nervous socially and I know its a tremendous issue.
I also know for me my entire relationship life was over run with fear of abandonment. Saying no meant being abandoned and I feared that more than anything.
Depending on the situation I did ask my husband not to drink. Many times he wouldn't but he'd be tricky at times and chug vodka just before we left (unbeknownst to me). so about 20 min. in to the occasion I had the "what the hell?" look on my face..lol I learned to do the "plan B" thing real fast. I told him up front that he'd be finding his own way home if there was a problem. I thought that was fair, no surprises. When we had parent/teacher conferences for our son I always asked him to not drink. One time I met him at the school and he smelled like a walking bottle. I sent him packing. I could see no reason why he could not wait 30 min. to drink. He wasn't going to die within that 30 min. To me it was just common respect for all involved.
Another time that stands out was an anniversary. He asked me what I wanted and I said I wanted a "sober dinner". About 10 minutes after we had left the house the slurring began. I turned the car around and went back home. All the while he was telling me he only had two drinks, he's not drunk blah blah. Well, tough! That isn't what I asked for and it was two hours out of the whole year. I left him sitting in the car in the driveway in disbelief as I hopped in to our other car and took off. I had planned to have dinner with my best friend for the plan B and that's what I did.
I rarely asked him not to drink but when I did, I meant it!
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
In that particular post, the person being asked not to drink was not an alcoholic. So, put yourself in that place. Do you tell your non A sister, say, "Sorry, I won't be coming to neice's wedding unless you don't serve alcohol, because I am uncomfortable around drinking?" Or whatever - social occasions where the rest of the world is accustomed to having a drink.
As I said in that post, and I believe strongly enough that I'll say it again - feelings about other peoples' drinking can range from healthy "I'm taking care of myself" to unhealthy "This hurts so I will run and hide from it" and they all look pretty much the same on the surface. The test comes from inside - does this make you feel strong, serene and empowered, or do you feel anxious, panicky and defensive?
Personally, I have no problem at all with people drinking around me, however I have big problems with people being *drunk* around me. The glazed eye, the sway, that raised ugly voice - I feel sick to my stomach and break out in a cold sweat. However, one thing I really love to do is Karaoke. And, in this little town, you sing at the bar or you don't sing. Right now, the fear and dislike of being around drunk people is keeping me from doing something that enriches my life. Therefore, in the context of ME, this is unhealthy, and I'm slowly working on getting past it.
My son is living in residence at University right now, and he said it was very hard at first to calm down there - a lot of the kids were overreacting to being away from home for the first time and the first few weeks were full of noisy drunkeness. It was very very hard for him to lie in his bed and listen to drunken shouting and ranting outside his door - brought back bad memories of the worst years of childhood. However, due to verious reasons, it is live in res or don't go to University, so, in order to do what he wants with his life, he had to face down that discomfort, and find a way to live with it. He could have said "No, can't live with these drunks" and come home and gone back to his highschool job of bag boy at the supermarket, but that would have been letting unhealthy fears, and other people's choices, rule his life.
All of us will deal with this in different ways, but I believe it is important to try to move from reflexive, fearful reactions, to healthy self care.
"All of us will deal with this in different ways, but I believe it is important to try to move from reflexive, fearful reactions, to healthy self care."
Since I am neither reflexive nor fearful, so I assume you are referring to someone else.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
We'd all have to look at ourselves, from inside, and see where we are on this issue (just like every other issue, really) we've all had different past experiences, and we are in different places in our journeys.
For myself, I don't want knee jerk fear to rule my life. I have to admit that in some aspects of my life, though, it does. So, this is one of the defects of character that I can keep working on, one day at a time.
Hello Everybody!! I'm Home! After two fried motherboards, etc., etc.. I am now back online. I missed you guys! Awesome topic Diva! One that I stand behind 100%. I couldn't and wouldn't go back to the way it was, so I was adamant that I had rights in MY house, not to have a beligerant, bed-pissing, nasty drunk in my presence! When he chose to drink, he knew he was NOT allowed to be near me! Period! I told him that HE (the real he) wouldn't let him in the house either, which is so true! My boundary didn't happen all at once, but I knew how wonderful it could be when he wasn't drinking (another binger) and I also knew that I deserved respect! It has been nearly 2 years since he has been drunk, and this time has been the happiest of my life! I totally mean that! When he was drinking, he either had to go to his cottage, or if he had already started drinking here, he stayed in the camper.There was NO ifs ands or buts! I don't know the deciding factor of his not drinking, his last binge was probably dam* close to his LAST binge. He got very, very sick. That was probably the changing factor and he would have died all alone because I wouldn't have anything to do with him. Out of respect for him, no other reason, I don't drink around him, except when a very special friend comes to visit once a year. This year, we had news that an old drinking buddy of his had drank himself to death, I guess we both knew my A could have been right there with him, and discovered days later. I still wonder, and guess I always will, when the next time will come. He had quit when his youngest daughter was born, for 12 years... so I know this might not be permanent, but what is? I am treasuring every minute of happiness we have now, but also know that the day might come when I'll be alone for the rest of my life, but everyone has that, the only two things that are 'for sure' are death and taxes, right? Thanks folks for the topic! I haven't had time to read many other posts, but am happy to see many of my old 'family' still here, and Welcome to all newcomers! Love Ya! TLC
