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Hello! I am new to this forum and not happy to be here although I know what a blessing the A programs are. My husband is sneak drinking again for the 4th time in our 10 year marriage. He doesn't know that I know what he is doing. So I get that I need to focus on my own life, but pray tell, how does that work when he gets into a car accident and hurts/kills himself or someone else? Or loses his job which is our sole source of income? Or has a big fit when I take control of my time and spend it on something besides him? I mean. THEORETICALLY I really understand the underpinnings of self-responsibility. However, when it comes to actuality I am often stumped. I'm sure there are those who have been in this program for so long they have the answer to this burning question. I guess the reason I don't want to be here is that I'm tired of having to work at taking care of myself over the resistence that the problem of alcohol abuse has created in my life. I don't want a second divorce, but it sure seems like a passel of work to live with someone who is a physical and financial danger to himself and to me. I just resent waking up and realizing that the problem is in my lap once again. Rrrrrr... And if forcing someone into treatment doesn't work (although I have read lately that there is little difference between voluntary and forced participation in programs in terms of success) then why do people do interventions? Does Alanon mean just dragging yourself to meetings so that you can make it through life with someone who isn't even there with you, except physically? I mean, why would a self respecting person choose to spend their one short and precious life living this way? I can focus on myself just as well, probably better, without the distraction. The only problem (here comes that reality thing again) is that I have no means of viable self support so leaving invites the distraction of well, trying to eat. Hmmmm....what say you, wise ones?
Welcome Minnehaha, The really wise ones are right behind me and I am sure will respond shortly. I think these are great questions. I have no answers for you. This program has given me the tools to change MY life. For me that did mean leaving the A in my life. And I did it with no money. But I wasn't angry like I had been all the other times I had left him. I wasn't "happy" but I felt peace that it was the right thing to do for me and the kids. This program tells us if we are feeling confused, we do not have to make any decision. If physical abuse is not part of the equasion then staying put, getting involved in this program, listening and learning can bring about a miracle. I don't mean the A stops drinking, I mean within us. If you keep comming back (and get to face to face meetings) YOUR life will get better and it sounds to me that is what you are looking for. Good luck!
Well here's what I did. I had just started my job 4 months before I moved out and left him. Since then, I have gotten money in various ways such as tax returns - both his and mine - insurance checks, occasional miracle money from him or others, the sale of our house, etc. etc. Now I have a 2nd job. Now I am a single mom with 3 kids and have managed for 1 1/2 years to wing this and support all of us to the best of my ability. I might not be the PTA mom of the year and am lucky if teeth are brushed and homework is done but we are all alive and functioning for the most part. I have been in positions where he was the only one working and where I have signed my name with his on loans and where I was not near any friends or family (still dealing with that one) but I will NEVER put myself in that position again. Relying on someone else financially puts you in a position of powerlessness and I don't ever want to be powerless again. I would say the first step is to find out what would happen if you did divorce, do you have money coming to you? would you get alimony? do you have kids, etc. Then I would say are you capable of working and if so I'd start looking and if not I'd go back to school to learn to do something so I could start working. There's something to be said for independence!
Just telling it as I hear it, and hoping that you will find something in this that speaks to you; for I hear your hurt, your anger and your pain... ...pray tell, how does that work when he gets into a car accident and hurts/kills himself or someone else?...
That is HIS responsibility and HIS choice, and would be directly as a result of His irresponsibility and His choice.
...Or loses his job which is our sole source of income?...
Again His choice to continue the drinking, probably.
...Or has a big fit when I take control of my time and spend it on something besides him?...
You are entitled to a live and have choices and free will and that is something he will have to deal with.
...I guess the reason I don't want to be here is that I'm tired of having to work at taking care of myself over the resistence that the problem of alcohol abuse has created in my life...
Yes, lots of people here would agree and relate to this...and I can say that I have been there done that got the T-shirt!
...I don't want a second divorce, but it sure seems like a passel of work to live with someone who is a physical and financial danger to himself and to me. I just resent waking up and realizing that the problem is in my lap once again...
I am sure I wouldn't want a second divorce either, and I am not surprised to hear that you resent waking up and realizing this may be the outcome in the future.
...then why do people do interventions?...
Because they have a choice and that is what they chose to do.
...Does Alanon mean just dragging yourself to meetings so that you can make it through life with someone who isn't even there with you, except physically? ...
Yes it does...if you chose to do that...because when it boils down to it...it is about getting you to a better place in life.
...why would a self respecting person choose to spend their one short and precious life living this way?...
Again, all about personal choices and some are bad choices; alcohol is deadly when it gets its teeth into a person and the grasp is brutal and hard shake loose. There for the Grace of God go I. I am the lucky one, I am not addicted and alcohol has not got it's grasp on me as the drinker, but it has affect me in a sick way as a person living with someone that it had within it's grasp, and I needed Al-anon as a result of the sickness it caused within me.
...I have no means of viable self support so leaving invites the distraction of well, trying to eat. Hmmmm....what say you, wise ones?...
And that is why you have to look to yourself and place yourself in a secure place to make sure that you can feed yourself, or get the benefits that you are entitled to if you are not physically able to work to feed yourself.
oooooooooooooooooo
So, to end my worth, you may not like any of this, you can be angry about this, you can even feel resentful, but you are 'sick' of this too and you need a cure.
Al-anon is a way of recovery and I know what it has done for me to date.
I so hope that you will read past posts on this board, that you will consider what Al-anon has to offer and that you will go find a face2face meeting and read some literature to build up your knowledge base on the situation that you are faced with.
This family is supportive, and I am sure there is nothing you feel, or have experienced that someone here will not be able to relate to and share their experiences of.
Keep coming back here, whatever you decide you can accept or not accept at this moment in time and IN TIME I can assure you that you will find a road to recovery and gain strength to CHANGE YOUR LIFE from the one that you are so dissatisfied with right now.
Please take what you like and leave the rest. I am not an expert, nor do I consider myself one of the wise ones that Serendipity was talking about, however when I read your post, these were my thoughts. I have given you short, first thought answers where I was able, but these are by no means the full answers, nor do they give you the full picture.
You cannot change your A, but you can change YOU and YOUR circumstances and are only responsible for your CHOICES and your ACTIONS. Not HIS, unless you endorse his choices and decisions.
Praying for your peace of mind and hoping you will join us in a programme of recovery. May God be with you.
Heart
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"The highest form of wisdom is kindness." The Talmund
Welcome to MIP.... Your questions are great ones, and no easy answers..... For today, I'll offer my thoughts on one part of your question:
Does Alanon mean just dragging yourself to meetings so that you can make it through life with someone who isn't even there with you, except physically?
Tom's opinion - nope, not at all.... I think one of the huge misconceptions about Al-Anon out there is that it somehow teaches us what we "should" do, feel, or whatever.... I think, in a nutshell, Al-Anon is simply a program designed to bring our focus back onto ourselves, and our health, serenity, etc... When we do that, we can actually "live" life again, whether that is with or without our A's (the answer to stay or leave is very individual, and is in many ways irrelevant to the issue of our own well being).
I know there is a million and one reasons why we justify it, and your concerns ARE real & valid, but try reading your post again, from the perspective of: 'how crazy is it that I am monitoring a grown man's (secret) drinking habits?"
I certainly don't have any magical answers for you, but I do know that Al-Anon can help you find those answers, if for nothing else than to get you back onto the road of healthy thinking and habits....
Take care Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
"... but pray tell, how does that work when he gets into a car accident and hurts/kills himself or someone else?" Quoted from your post.
I struggled with this question for a long time. I, once, even went so far as to physically stop him from driving drunk. The fact is, if he DOES maim or kill someone, it is not only his problem, it is yours too...you are married to him, hence you share the blame for his stupid, unacceptable behavior both morally and monetarily. You could kiss goodby any assets you share or any you hold separately. That's just the way it is.
Here is what I did...I got a divorce! We are still together; love one another to bits. But I would not allow myself to remain in a position to be liable for his actions. God forbid he ever do any serious damage to anyone, but if he did...he would have to face the consequences alone. I think it makes perfectly good sense. I protected myself and my personal assets from seizure, and when I did, I breathed a sigh of relief.
Anyone who tells you that you would not be equally up to your eyeballs in the deep doo doo is wrong. Period.
Glad you are here. This "family" is a bunch of understanding people who either are there, have been there, or are headed there. We love and comfort one another in times of trouble, and rejoice with one another when triumphs occur. COme back often.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Hello! I am new to this forum and not happy to be here although I know what a blessing the A programs are. My husband is sneak drinking again for the 4th time in our 10 year marriage.
He has a horrible disease. It is a "symptom" of this disease for them to relapse.No different than a diabetic having foot sores again.
He doesn't know that I know what he is doing. So I get that I need to focus on my own life, but pray tell, how does that work when he gets into a car accident and hurts/kills himself or someone else?
We cannot control them in any way. 3 C's: we did not cause it,we cannot control it,we cannot cure it.
We can no more control the A's disease anymore than we can control a loved one with brain cancer doing the same things you mentioned.
Or loses his job which is our sole source of income?
Dearest, sadly the disease he has gets worse over time, he will get sicker and sicker.More symtoms will appear.Nothing you have said deviates from the typical A. The chances of him losing his job are HUGE. I always suggest if you are married to,or going to marry an A, get your own income, vehicle in your name only and if you can, get your name only on the house. Don't get any credit cards,loans or anything with him signing your name. Put money in your own account or somewhere he does not know of.
Being married to an A sets up a whole different bunch of rules and safeguards.
Or has a big fit when I take control of my time and spend it on something besides him?
Yet another symptom of the disease. Selfishness. A's hate to be alone. Most are very fearful people inside when they are using.
I mean. THEORETICALLY I really understand the underpinnings of self-responsibility. However, when it comes to actuality I am often stumped. I'm sure there are those who have been in this program for so long they have the answer to this burning question. I guess the reason I don't want to be here is that I'm tired of having to work at taking care of myself over the resistence that the problem of alcohol abuse has created in my life. I don't want a second divorce, but it sure seems like a passel of work to live with someone who is a physical and financial danger to himself and to me. I just resent waking up and realizing that the problem is in my lap once again. Rrrrrr... And if forcing someone into treatment doesn't work (although I have read lately that there is little difference between voluntary and forced participation in programs in terms of success)
If they go into treatment themselves, then get finished there, go to AA 90 meetings or more in 90 days, live a program of recovery great.
If they go for a month or whatever not out of choice, at least they had some non using time, and will be educated some.
Gives their body and loved ones a break.
What is success? They will never be cured, they are A. Even an A in a program of recovery 20 years will probably relapse. Just like a diabetic, no matter how much they stick to their regiment, have a hypoglycemic incident off and on. The disease has always been there. I don't relate how it is in your lap? What do you believe you can do?
then why do people do interventions?
Usually interventions are done when someone is so out of control that they are at the point,even if they want to, cannot stop on their own. Last stage of being an A.
they are desperate, or so sick they are out of touch to much of anything.
The chances are higher they will go into recovery because hopefully all loved ones will stick to the plan. That means NO enabling. Very clear boundaries are expressed to the A. Again they get some time to clean up and let their body rest. Their mind too.
Does Alanon mean just dragging yourself to meetings so that you can make it through life with someone who isn't even there with you, except physically?
Depends on the person. Some people LOVE the support, cannot wait for a meeting. Sometimes I am sure it takes one footstep at a time to get there. The more often you go,you will feel welcomed and it will be home/sanctuary.
I mean, why would a self respecting person choose to spend their one short and precious life living this way?
Hot question. A self respecting person, meant their marriage vows, know that their loved one is very, very sick, they really love this person unconditionally, they are their friend as well as their lover whatever. They want to stand by them becuz they want to support them, be there.Being an A can be horribly lonely. They do not choose to be an A. It is in their genetic make up.PROVEN There are many other reasons too.
I can focus on myself just as well, probably better, without the distraction. The only problem (here comes that reality thing again) is that I have no means of viable self support so leaving invites the distraction of well, trying to eat. Hmmmm....what say you, wise ones?
My mother had breast cancer. She was NOT a distraction, anymore than my AH's disease of being an addict. Lots of people who love A's find themselves having to get a job to take care of themselves. I would almost say most all.
To me it is dangerous to depend on another for support. My first husband was killed in a pedestrian accident. I was left alone with two toddlers.
My second, now husband was in years of recovery, had a brain tumor removed,went into a medical relapse,and is brain damaged. Thank God I had gone back to college and had a good income.
We may not even marry an A,and can lose our spouse or mate. But as I said earlier, if you are married to an A,I suggest you get your own means of income.
I cannot imagine how someone would feel if they knew their spouse was only there to be financialy taken care of.A's are human beings, they have feelings too.Many with hyper emotions, they self medicate to make them not feel so much.
Some self medicate becuz they are in pain.Some use just to use.
Hello everyone. Well, I guess I just hit the motherlode! Such a lot of caring and wisdom from everyone. And while I did detect just a teense of scoldy stuff, it's all good. I just wanted to answer one thing...I do agree a person would feel quite creepy thinking their spouse was just there for the money. However, any time I have had a job my A was so incredibly unsupportive that it wasn't worth it. I would quit because he wanted me around. I do earn my keep, just not in money. I am here for him in every way. However, I did make the choice to stay home and I accept the responsiblity for m't. y life being the way it is. That being said, it doesn't feel much better to know my spouse pretty much has me here, not because he so loves who I am as a person, but so that he can get what I give him and not have to face his loneliness. It's a sad two-way street, isn't it? I agree it's a personal decision whether to continue in a relationship with someone who drinks. I think one difference between that and someone who has something like cancer, is that alcohol steals the drinker's insides. They just aren't really available to love anything but their addiction. And they probably hate that, too. With another type of physical illness, a person is still able to be present to love back. Alcoholism to me is a "soul sickness" which other physical illnesses aren't. That's what I meant by him being here physically. I don't want to hurt him; I know he is sick. I know he is in pain. He's been through one divorce. This is my agony. I think maybe in time things will become more clear. But one thing is for sure at this juncture. I need to put way more focus on myself and stop expecting him to be anything other than what he is. A sick person who is just a shell right now. He means well, he tries, he's had a hard life, but he is what he is. I guess there are many alternatives. I could get divorced and continue to live with him as one of my friends has done. I do need to protect myself financially and legally. And pray for him (and me) a lot! Also I am not monitoring his habits, but I thought I smelled alcohol on his breath and before I ever said a thing to him I wanted to actually know if that was it, because I would hate to accuse him of something that wasn't true. It just gives us a starting point of communication if I should decide to go there. I figure that if he realizes that I know what he is doing, at least part of the charade can be done with. But am I snooping around and looking for stuff now that I have an answer, nah. I have other stuff to do. It's true I am lucky that I don't have this disease, but I never take it for granted because it can catch up with a person in later years even if they never had a problem when they were young. I have tremendous respect for alcoholism as a powerful force, if that makes sense. Any more feedback is welcome and thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone who cared enough to sit down and write.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that one thing for sure is that you need to put the focus on yourself! I couldn't do that until I left. I know some people can but my A got very agitated when he wasn't the center of attention. Even before leaving I had stopped waiting for him to get up and go on the weekends and that bothered him. I also remember the self doubt and fear of accusing him wrongly. That was something that was VERY hard for me to get past but now I assume I'm right. If I'm wrong I'm sorry but you'll have to prove I'm wrong rather than the other way around! There is something to be said for trusting your gut and following what it tells you. I think you detaching and doing your own thing is the best thing you can do for yourself!
I asked that why question before...long long time ago and I also thought about the dragging myself to meetings thingy also. Sometimes in AA you hear the description of "Trudging the road of happy destiny." What a picture!! LOL Resistance is okay and acceptable especially to a newbie to Al-Anon. I was all resistance and resentment. "Why do I when she.....?" I'm glad I got sick of that question forever. You've already got some very great feedback from those who have come before you and much of it has differences. Looking though at the similarities is what is supportive. Why are we all here? Why do we continue to come here and go to face to face meetings and work the program as suggested?
Part of that answer was the title of a previous post from Aloha "don't think about it so much." Her gratitude at getting that is also part of the answer. We cannot predict or control things that have never happened. My sponsors wise men that they were taught me that if I was to attain balance in my thinking and life that if I was going to "What if" myself I also had to "What if not" myself. I was being taught to "Not react" to everything I was worried or afraid of that coulda, woulda, shoulda happen. I can't change the past; I don't know what the future hold for certain other than possibilities, all I have is right now and my Higher Power to share my right now with. My Higher Power, God as I understand God and that can get weird for some trying to understand cause I am deeply influenced by a certain culture not my own, AND my religious upbringing. Anyhow I depend on the presence of a Higher Power. Being born, raised and then entering into the disease of alcoholism and addiction qualified me for this social model spiritual recovery program and a HP.
Life is uncertain in itself. Life in alcoholism is certainly uncertain (?) (oxy or Yogi?) and I don't have the power within myself to handle it alone. Therefore social model. All of us working together keep ourselves and each other on a more sane and acceptable life condition and we are all linked to a Higher Power. I'm no puritan and I'm no dummy either (anymore). If it works for my brothers and sisters here and in the face to face program I'm doing it too without shame or guilt. Consequence? I've got a life today I wouldn't give up for anything. This is real life for me today. I've got a life today that I don't have to guess about and behaviors that are cemented in spiritual and socially uplifting values. I've got people who I owe money to and money to send them we have that agreement. In the past that agreement was uncertain and I don't live in the past. In the future? can't go there yet it isn't today.
You said you know what a blessing the A program are. Al-Anon is that same focus and much more. In AA it is about drinking or not drink (I am a member) in Al-Anon (I've been a member here longer) it's about living life to the fullest regardless of what trajedy is going on at anyone time and not being afraid to do that because how we handle life here is not normal it's miraculous. I didn't only get my life back here; I got my soul back cause the disease had evaporated it. Lots of A's coming into the AFG for that reason.
I use to think that the problem was always in my lap and then I learned not to think that way because I was wrong in thinking that way. I wasn't the only person on the planet or in the problem or available for a solution. It wasn't all about poor ole me. There are alternatives; ton of them, and it was my responsiblity to go shopping for them. Do you like shopping? There are miracles here for free if you are willing and can let go of your fear and self pity for just about one and a half hours per day per meeting. Old timers have done 90 meetings or more in 90 days. Now I hear the suggestion of going to just 6 or so. God I am grateful I got in when I did.
Alcoholics drink...that is what they do they suffer from an incurable disease that is fatal if they don't arrest it by total abstinence. They suffer from a compulsion of the mind and an alergy of the body. Their mind makes the suggestion and then their body makes the insistence and then their body and mind spirit and emotions go thru the most horrible alergy all the while wanting another drink. If you have place the responsiblity for you happiness and sadness on the shoulders of your alcoholic you need to take it back quickly if not faster if he is starting to drink again. It is of no value if you know and he doesn't know that you know. It is only depressing that he is fulfilling your expectations and fears while also understanding or knowing that you don't know what to do next. You know what you don't want to do and that can change. Try this little thought thingy that I was taught early on. Try thinking these simple thoughts, "Maybe I'm wrong." "Maybe I'm wrong about Al-Anon and it might have something for me if I just try it for 90 days." "90 days isn't such a long long time...hell I've already lived longer than that!!" "It's not mandatory...I can quit at any time...it's all voluntary and hell maybe I'll even find someone who likes me there." Those thoughts were mine...you can use them for free and then check back with us as to how things worked out for you.
If he is sneak drinking again...he's feeling guilty and shameful and sick. No sense both of you feeling the same thing at the same time. As Aloha posted "Don't think about it so much". Keep coming back. (((((hugs)))))
worth, you may not like any of this, you can be angry about this, you can even feel resentful, but you are 'sick' of this too and you need a cure.
