The things you learn in the rooms! - Al-Anon Family Group

kissers · Senior Member

The things you learn in the rooms!

nmike · ~*Service Worker*~

kissers,

Very interesting. Hmmm, kinda like feeling a presence in the room. Knowing something is going on but not being able to put your finger on. Hope I don't do it to someone else.

In support,
Nancy

Jean4444 · ~*Service Worker*~

Kissers my A did this to me. All the time.

There is an old film by the title of "Gaslight" and that is exactly what its about.

Here is an example: We would be going somewhere in the car and I would be driving. He said: turn left. So, I would turn left because I thought he knew a better route and thought: sure, I will learn a new route, etc. As soon as I did turn left he would start yelling at me about why the heck did I turn left? What was I thinking? Why can't I just pay attention and do what I am told? on and on and on.

I cannot believe I used to live with that.

Then, he would order me to pull over so he could really yell at me and look me in the eye while doing it, facing me and force me to face him. I never looked him in the eye. I always looked down. Sometimes he would go on like this for hours and I am not exaggerating. In this particular example we were on a roadtrip and I could not just get out and walk away, we were in upstate NY or something.

I know gaslighting really really well. It generated a massive amount of anxiety, confusion and set the stage for me to be easier and easier to control and manipulate because I had no idea what was real and what was not. Not even in my own perception, with my own eyes and ears. Its incredibly debilitating and not just in that relationship but across the board. I lost interest in doing anything with anyone because I had no idea what was real. Its completely crazy making.

Its really painful but its an important reminder, your post. Thank you for writing it. I must never forget how horrible it was. Hugs, J.

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I have never heard it put this way. thank you for sharing this.
What came to mind is the disease makes us crazy then the A starts calling us crazy.

Kissers I was reading some of my AH's paper work from being in rehab. He was saying how his then girlfriend had mental problems. oh brother.

then I was reading some from a time he was in rehab married to me. He wrote the same thing about me.

This disease is so horrible. Downs everyone and when it needs to use that person is as sweet as pie.

gaslighting. interesting. love,debilyn

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

Went through it with my AH when I caught his emails and text messaging. He kept denying it and every day that passed, it just felt more and more like he was trying to make me feel like I was going insane.

My mom, who recognized the gaslighting immediately, told me to write down EVERYTHING that's happened in chronological order and save it somewhere so I can go back and be sure of what was said and done if I needed the reassurance. She told me it was all part of the "crazy-making" that A's do.

I'm glad I did. It kept my sanity for sure.

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((((Kissers)))),

Ever see the old black and white film Gaslight? It's exactly what happens. It might even be where they got the term from. Really good movie, definitely worth renting. I have heard it, but I haven't thought about it years. Hmm.... I might need to rethink some things about work. Thanks for sharing it.

Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty

round3 · Senior Member

I never knew it had a name. It is very crazy-making, and it does leave you questioning what was real. I've always kept a journal - so I have an actual account of what happened. Mostly what I journal is the positive in my life - but several years ago when my A and I broke up, there was nothing but negative and so those events got transcribed (as a way to process them, it sure wasn't to remember them, because they're emblazened on my brain anyway). But when my A and I re-connected a couple of years ago, and I mentioned a few of those things (only because they were left unaddressed so many years prior; and if I was going to move forward with "us" then they needed to be dealt with). While he was very apologetic of the pain he brought me - he tells me he doesn't remember things happening the way I did. Flat out denied that a couple of things happened the way I recalled them. Again - if I didn't have them written down then I would probably have second guessed that they even happened. He was VERY convincing with his words.

I like knowing that this behavior is real and has a name.

~R3

-- Edited by round3 at 07:33, 2008-02-17

Peggy7 · ~*Service Worker*~

OMG, no I had never before heard the term or seen the movie. What I do know is, I've lived with this for years. I've never been kidnapped, however; when we are driving in the car and it can be anywhere...he often times heads somewhere without so much as mentioning it. I begin to feel paniced and always have to ask, where are you taking me...to which he replies...oh, I need gas. or Oh, I wanted to mail these letters. or Oh, decided to drop off a part while we were out. All I've ever asked is, please just tell me otherwise in my mind the road to and from the store should be a straight one.

Maybe that isn't the same thing, but it sure makes me crazy. Another thing he will do is drive up so close to the backend of the car ahead of us I hold my breathe and beg him to back off a bit. He gives me all kinds of reasons why he's at a safe distance or why they shouldn't be driving the way they are or simply slam on the breaks more frequently which totally upsets my sense of balance and well being. It's as if I feel held captive and out of control.

Years ago he would play this game with me where if I were down in the laundry room, he would tip toe down the stairs and scare me to death. I begged that he not do that, it threw my system way off balance for no reason. He would grin and say, I wasn't tip toeing.

Recently he would say, we have extra meat or fruit or groceries, let's see if the kids need any. Then if I were the one to load up a sack for the kids and send them home with the items. I was crucified for having given them x y or z. This pattern has made me leary to act on my own without his constant approval.

I had no idea this was a form of abuse until now having read what some of you have writen on the subject. I do know these things have left me unsure of myself, my ability to think things through and often times now I fear the loss of my own memory.

One other thing comes to mind as well, his hateful mother will repeat patterns year after year after year that drive me totally nuts. Yet when the next year comes around and I say, they will be busy at your sisters he totally forgets and acts like I'm making trouble and invites them each and every holiday only to be turned down by them saying, "we'll be at your sister's instead."

HELLO...what an awakening for me.

Jean4444 · ~*Service Worker*~

Mine did the driving thing, too. Would drive in a very scary way when I was in the car with him so I would beg him to please stop. He liked scaring me a lot. He would punch himself in the head really hard, too and say: see what you make me do.

its so painful to remember.

Yes, they do it so we think we need to depend upon them for everything, they keep reminding us how incompetent we are and how insane we are. But in fact, they are the insane ones, not us. J.

Becky1 · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow, what a relief to have a name put to what I have lived with......
I am trying to take care of myself, doing well with detaching, but every time I feel like I can relax a little teeny tiny bit....WHAM......I get thrown to the mat again.
It is exhausting, to say the least.
I am going to start putting on a fire-proof outfit and gas mask to protect myself.

Love in Recovery,
Becky1

serendipity · ~*Service Worker*~

I have heard this term used in relation to my Domestic Violence recovery. I have yet to see the movie. I have forgotten so much of what he has said and done over the years, it's almost like amnesia. But I do recall how he refered to his own mother as a whore. He said this thru our entire marriage. He said he hated her because she had 7 kids with 3 different men. I always stood up for her. Always. Even when I no longer liked or loved her. I felt he was wrong to say such a thing about his mother much less any woman. And as we sat in couples councling one day (which couples councling was a VERY bad idea to begin with) and the threapist asked me "How does he feel about his mother?" and I told her what he said he about JUMPED out of his seat and said "I NEVER SAID THAT! I NEVER CALLED MY MOTHER A WHORE! YOU DID!" weirdface

I was dumbfounded. It wasn't just me he had said this to, it was his brothers and sisters and friends, even MY mother. I was shocked. It seemed like he believed himself too. And there I sat thinking "did I really ever say anything like that about HIS mother? anyone's mother? I don't even think of mothers in general in those terms" His gaslighting was constant. I asked him if he sold my cousin's massage table (that weighed about 75 pounds). He said no. Well, where was it? He didn't know.....maybe I put it somewhere. And there is me thinking "did I really put this HUGE 75 pound table somewhere in this house and forget I did it?" Talk about driving someone crazy!!! furious

There is NO working with that kind of insanity idea

Heartbroken · Senior Member

Praise the Lord, I am not crazy. Too many odd things to recount so I will just tell you about the one that sealed my resolve to GET OUT of the situation before I DID go insane.

My engagement ring, and his great-grandmother's emerald ring that I inherited went missing overnight, [I took them off when I showered before bed] and I asked him, when he came home from work, if he had seen them or taken them or whether he had pawned them, so that I could go arrange something to get them back, and he told me that there were three other people in the house besides him, so why don't I go ask them which pawnbrokers they had taken them too, 'cos he had not taken them from my nightstand!

The three other people in the house were our 12 year old son and 14 year old daughter and me.

When he accused his son and his daughter along with me that was IT. I thought I WAS CRAZY and felt like I was screaming inside my head and that I would never be able to stop...the children were so upset that he could suggest that they might take them, as I had not left the house and neither had they since I had taken them off last thing the night before. And whats' more we lived in a little country village that had NO SHOPS and we had NO TRANSPORT but the car that he had gone to work in. But he stuck to his story and insisted that it must be one of us.

Like a pawnbroker is going to take diamonds, emeralds and sapphire gold rings from 12/14 year children!
confused

-- Edited by Heartbroken at 17:07, 2008-02-17

-- Edited by Heartbroken at 17:12, 2008-02-17

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow, when I think more about this, this reminds me a LOT of my ex, who was a drug addict and an alcoholic - and all of his crazy-making came in the form of his paranoia. He was always questioning me and accusing me of cheating on him with other men. I lived out in the middle of no-where and NEVER left the house without him, but he was CONVINCED I was cheating on him. He kept hammering it into my head so much, that I kid you not, I started doubting myself when I'd tell him I wasn't doing anything! I mean - he had the ability to make me feel guilty for something I didn't even do!

Horrible. Horrible. Horrible.

This brings out anger in me now that I recognize it and can put a name to it. Just makes me want to fly all the way out to him to kick his teeth in for doing that to me!

Amazing.

Heartbroken · Senior Member

Yep, know exactly were you are coming from, had that too Aloha.

Never been unfaithful in my life and yet I was having countless affairs according to the A. The butcher, the baker, the postman, the milkman, the bank manager, the lifeguard, the minister even!

Really did make me think I must be in cuckoo land. However, NOT worth the anger 'cos all it did/does is destroy me and I KNOW IT IS NOT TRUE...but it left me seriously sure I was a complete nut-case at the time.

You see why I am going to remember the ALMONDS each year. It is going to be my day to laugh at the nutty things that he accused me of.

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