The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I really dislike having to recognize things in me that I thought, somehow, I was "above" or even incapable of being.
I finally got my AH to see a counselor. Nooo. NO! Wait - *I* didn't get him to see the counselor. HE made the appointment. It just sucks that I was the one to initially suggest it. But... well, it is what it is now, I guess.
Long and short of the craziness that got AH where he is now:
#1: I caught him discussing hooking up with other people online for sex. The axe fell a second time when I found a phone number in those emails and hence found that phone number programmed to his cell phone and on top of it saw logs of tons of text messges with the phone numbers.
#2: I confronted him about it and he vehemently denied it all despite all the glaring proof to the contrary.
#3: AH and I met with a couples counselor where he figured he could magically get me to believe him in just 50 minutes with a counselor.
#4: Counseling didn't go the way he expected. I tell him I know he's lying, wish he'd come clean to me.
#5: He takes off the day after counseling after large argument... he hasn't ate in two days, drinks a six pack and decides he's going ot kill hisself (leaving me at home a total wreck worrying about him - he didn't TELL me he was going to kill hisself, but I just *knew* he thought he had no other way out by his actions)
#6: Darnit. Suicide attempt fails. Well, screw it then, AH decides to drive home... resulting in his hitting another vehicle (thankfully just a scratch!!!) and then his running his vehicle off the road, and hence his getting picked up by the police.
#7: I pick AH up from the hospital. First thing out of AH's mouth is: "K, I have a problem with alcohol. I need to get help. I need to start attending AA."
Well, thank my lucky stars! HE admits he has a problem, and HE says he needs to start going to AA without ANY coaxing on my part at all! (Seriously, the alcohol issue was the last thing I was expecting him to say to me that night - I thought he was just going to finally come clean on his internet sex-capades!)
Fast forward three weeks later. NOW, AH denies having told me he has a problem ("I don't remember saying that."), and AH tells me now he's strugglig with step #1 in the twelve step program, and now tells me he's only going to AA because he knows I "want" him to go.
Anyhow - so that brings us to our latest counseling session. We've been bickering (oh, and he DID finally come clean to me about his internet/phone adventures), and every which way our disagreements turn, he's always trying to pass the buck and somehow make me responsible in one way or another for the gigantic mess he's gotten hisself into.
He even decides we need to see a counselor so "we" can focus on our relationship.
Bzzt. WRONG, my dear husband. At the counseling session both the counselor and I see everything very clearly. Our "relationship" is actually fine. It's my AH's individual actions that brought our relationship under stress. Not us, as a couple, having a problem getting along.
But oooh darn - back to the point (I have one!) of my thread title... "Co-dependent.". I didn't get away scott-free from the counselor. I was branded with that title by her. "co-dependent"... great.
And that's where I seem to have my own issues with Al-Anon's step #1...
But I have to agree. I really do. I've seemed to draw or be attracted to men with substance abuse problems.. which can only mean one thing... there's something inside of me that feels like I have to be there to "help" substance-abusing people get better, despite that I'm not qualified for it and that it's an impossibility when it comes to the fact that I'm in an intimate relationshp with these people.
But in any case - one thing I'm glad of. AH seems to feel like he'd like to keep seeing the counselor - on his own. And I'm grateful that the counselor is a specialst with substance abuse, as well... so this lady knows her stuff.
Oooh. I just needed to vent. I'm sorry for the lengthyness.
I'm grateful for these forums when I'm not in a position at the time to attend a live meeting.
Really great drama!! And it got you here and maybe to some face to face meetings? We use to call what "WE" do enabling. What we do enables the situation to get worse for instance and then MB and the mental health industry got it and called it co-dependency. I once listened to another old timer vent, "I don't drink and fool around with him so I ain't Co-dependent."
I hope you stick aroun cause you still seem to have some of your faculties still remaining. I got a snicker or two out of you post and couldn't decided if you were making attempt at humor or are slicker than I am at sarcasm. Anyway it seems to have helped you hold perspective long enough to get here and I for one hope you stick around longer.
I'm not exactly sure what I was trying to achieve other than an overall vent.
The thing is, AH and I are currently co-habitating fine... but there's always this underlying "How DARE he!?!?" that springs up after we've actually managed to have a laugh or two sometimes.
A lot of hurt feelings.. the betrayal (although he swears up and down he never got together with any of these people).. the frustration in his wanting to duck out of staying sober... the annoyance that his methods to do so involve deflecting and diverting the REAL problems to stuff that really ISN'T a problem...
*sigh*
Where sarcasm goes... that's just me. I somehow, even in the lowest of lows, even when my life just seems to have taken the worst nose-dive in the history of mankind, I somehow manage to try to throw a funny spin on things. If anything, it just allows ME a break and a chance to laugh. I think I'd drive myself crazy if I chose to take myself too seriously.
I actually have been to three face-to-face meetings. Plus I'm seeing my own counselor... my mother's in Al-anon, as well, so I have another person to talk with. I still need to find myself a sponsor, just haven't quite felt that connection just yet, but it would be nice some time to do so. I certainly plan to keep attending the live meetings - I do feel better afterwards. I have some of the reading materials, too, including the "How Al-Anon Works" book and "One Day at a Time in Al-anon", which I make a point to read every single day.
I was chuckling to myself the other day, though, when I was reflecting on how us family/friends of substance-abusers seem to feel like at some point in time we can control other people around us. I was thinking how, in reality, the entire freaking WORLD should be attending Al-anon meetings, as I cannot tell you how many times I see people behaving in ways where in some how, some way, they equate their happiness to being able to control what other people around them are doing.
When I come across some environmental activist, I seriously want to pat them on the shoulder and tell them, "You know what? I think Al-anon could benefit you..." Same thing with all the people writing to the paper to complain about everything under the sun that they feel is wrong with Hawaii or the world... "Dear readers... I think you could use some time with Al-anon..."
In sense - STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN'T CONTROL AND INSTEAD FOCUS ON DOING STUFF THAT MAKES YOU HAPPY THAT [B]DOESN'T[/B] INVOLVE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHAT TO DO!
Okay, there I go, rambling again. (And even in THAT sense, I'm telling people what to do. *sigh* I can't win. Bad me! BAD! K - go eat some chocolate. HA! That works because I'm only telling myself what to do!)
I kind of like the forums, because at least here, I can spout off and blab on and on and I'm not taking up other people's time in meetings. (But I do like the meetings, too.)
Aloha!, ((((Aloha)))) (hehe) There seems to be a pretty fine line somewhere that compares controlling with being p*ssed off at what A's do within the relationship . I don't think confronting a spouse about "sex testing" is controlling (nor seeking help), it's realistic. What I feel needs to be distinctly different is what is caused by alcoholism and what is just morally wrong. What IS enabling to me is, and I'm not saying you are doing this, is to relate infidelity of any kind with alcoholism.
I just think it's worth mentioning because the distinction can get blurry for people living with A's. A's get in wrecks, fall down, and miss work directly due to alcoholism.
I don't feel that a ongoing outside relationship of any kind can be attributed to alcoholism. It entails continuous sneaking and planning. It is not a knee jerk thing that can be blamed on "I was so drunk I didn't know what I was doing that night".
We all should have boundaries whether they are physical or moral. Cheating was a big one for me. Luckily I never had to deal with that aspect. I just simply do not equate or allow alcoholism as an excuse for that B.S.
I think sometimes Alanons are so afraid of being controlling that they actually sometimes enable by allowing certain behaviors. We have to dig pretty deep and ask ourselves: Is this action alcohol related? Am I enabling this behavior by saying nothing? Am I allowing this so the A wont leave me, be upset etc. ?
Again, I'm not saying you are doing this. Your post just brought that thought to mind and I felt it needed to be addressed. We tend to blame and question ourselves and take on the enabling label for about everything.
I guess what I'm trying to say is....Alcoholism is definately a disease but we can't use it as an excuse for every action. This is where our diseases are similar. They use alcoholism to manipulate an excuse for their actions and Alanons use it for the same. Only we use it to excuse "their" actions and "ours". Thus those blurry lines.
Whew!! I hope that made some sort of sense. I was struggling to be clear in what I was trying to say.
take care Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Most of us seem to talk about the A so much when we start alanon. It is the first sign we need to be here.
What are YOU doing? Glad to hear you are in Alanon. How can you stop from the detective work?
In a way I feel if we are going to be intimate with someone we are not sure of, it is a matter of life and death to find the truth. Maybe once we do find the evidence, then we can take care of us, not look for more.
Hon they will be on their rears drunk and say they did not drink anything.
They can't. denial is a horribly strong thing. They are so afraid they feel so guilty they cannot admit anything.
We can do nothing for them. We can take care of ourselves, we can learn about the disease. If we learn and use our skills, we take some pain off them as they realize we know what makes them do what they do. We no longer question.
I learned to never make anyone fess up. When I have to face something with them, I say I am sorry people make some very sad choices. No pointing fingers, no putting them down.
Working with teens at risk taught me lots. They did not need another adult making them feel worse about themselves than they already did. discuss the issue, not the person.
I want to say that was a horrible discovery for you. I also want to say, as strange as it may sound, your relationship or how he feels for you, has absolutely nothing to do with other stuff.
I KNOW my A loves me, always has, always will. Sadly his disease has won. I know whats up.
For me I am over responsible for others and under responsible for myself. Of course it hurts to be labelled codependent. At the same time once we start recovery there is a movement. Right now my focus is on me, not on the A, not on people with substance abuse issues, not the neighbor, the person next door, the friend, its me. I can put the focus on everyone else straight away.
I also tend to cling onto relationships, move in quickly and super glue myself in there. Lately I have been dating and when I see a red flag I acknowledge it. When I saw red flags before I went out of my way to ignore them and hope they would go away.
I do know what it is to be standing on your head trying to make an A see what they are doing. When I stopped trying my program changed for me. Is my life good? Not really at the same time I'm not crazy over what the A is doing which I know is probably self destructive and crazy. I can let him be accountable to his higher power.
I know I can only blame the alcohol for so much...
This is just such a sticky, awful, AWFUL mess.
"We are only as sick as our secrets" is something I keep hearing a lot. And the biggest mess with this entire thing, was AH was discussing these sexual things with MEN. Not women. MEN.
So... he has so many issues, and MY issue is sitting around waiting for him to work out his own issues.
I know he also can only blame alcohol for so much of this underlying sexual fantasy of his. I made sure all of this was aired to his counselor so they can discuss... but yeah, you're right. I can't keep poking and prodding and demanding he speak with the counselor about this, that and the other. I have to let go at some point in time for my own sanity and start taking care of myself.
Just what hurts in all of it is all the "what if's" -
What if through counseling he discovers he's gay and after I try to rebuild my life with him because in the meantime he's been telling me "it's just a fantasy", and he then comes and tells me "Well, K, I'm sorry I mislead you, but I'd rather be with men."
I know... I can't keep projecting that stuff, though, because it does nothing for ME.
I was reading in another post, it's like one of those "reject before you're rejected" kind of things.
I just have to STOP myself with this crazy cycle, though. I have to recognize that this thought-pattern of loving myself but loving him so sacrificing and waiting for him does me no good. It's the whole step #1 - my life's become unmanageable! It's a MESS!
However, at the same time, I can't just expect that life's going to be a bed of roses in just a matter of a couple of weeks, either.
So... one day at a time. Right now, our first step is moving closer to town so I'm not having to drive him to and from work and to and from AA and counseling meetings. It's up to him to get hisself to these things, not me.
As for me? Well, jeez. I haven't quite asked myself what I want to do with myself now while he's going to his meetings (or complaining about going to his meetings).
I know that I'm looking forward to living down in town so it'll be easier for me to just get out of the house and go do things for myself (for me, my therapy time is doing things like taking a nice, long walk). It'll also make it easier for ME to get to many of the Al-anon meetings which are mostly down in town instead of where we live currently. I've only been going once a week to Al-anon so far, but I know when I'm in town, I plan to make it more frequent.
But I think I also need to give myself some other kind of hobby... something to do with my time that distracts me from my "what if... what if... what if..." thought patterns and at the same time, makes me feel happy and possibly even productive.
The thing I absolutely hate about where I live is that I'm on this island... and I sometimes feel kind of trapped here. I'm 3000+ miles away from my family and the friends I grew up with. It's just me, my AH, and the friends we've managed to make out here. And for my personality, there's sometimes not much for me to do out there that I enjoy. I sometimes feel so alone.
But... again... that's going back into "what if..." thinking ("what if I can't find something fun to do out here for myself?"). I just need to get active and FIND those things I appreciate doing. And for me, living in town is the first step to getting there.. finding the things I enjoy doing.. it'll be easier for me to get to these things, too, because I won't be living so far away.
*sigh*
I know... another long post.
Thanks everyone, as always. I'm working through this all, I am. And I just have to stop myself, too, and remember that I have my higher power backing me. I've got to stop feeling like I have to take on all of this stuff by myself, because my higher power is there, just waiting for me to say "Okay! I need your help! Please! Take this on for me!"
first, I want to say that you are very fortunate to be in beautiful Hawaii-- you could be stuck here in frozen wisconsin with the EXACT SAME ISSUE!!!
My AH has alcohol and marijuana issues. He also has sexual identity issues. One of the big drama episodes in our marriage happened when he called me after his car was stolen-- when he was at a gay bar. Of course he was drunk and high.
My two cents on the whole thing is that there are layers and layers to this onion, so to speak. Alcohol and drugs are the coping mechanism--- most addicts have lots of other issues beneath, some created by the disease, some swept under the rug by it.
but, enough about them. I don't care about the label. I found lots of wisdom reading Melody Beattie's books "codependent no more" and Language of letting go. Yeah-- I am sick because dealing with alcoholics is too much. I am sick because there is something about me that lets addicts into my life AND I RATIONALIZE THAT ITS OK! But, through honest self examination and hard work I can improve myself and my life. History does not have to repeat itself-- if i don't want it to.
Like you, I also recognize how sick our culture is and how 12step thinking could transform the world. But, I need to change me first.
take care K- we have a lot to talk about.
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
GKnee and Aloha, I just wanted to chime in with the sexual identity issue- I know what you are saying Aloha, there have been times I have been waiting to "hear" that news, too: Hey, I really would rather be with a man afterall, etc. And I think G is so right on- we cannot do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER about ANY of that stuff- really we just need to wrap them up in a nice HP blankie and send them off and KEEP THE FOCUS ON OURSELVES.
They have their own path. We have ours. If our paths continue on side-by-side, one day at a time. If they break and go in different directions- one day at a time. We will be OK and we will take care of ourselves. I just wanted to let you know that I also understand this particular twist and its complexity, etc. Just all part of their miasma!! All flavors-
For me, it became a boundary issue, too. It was like: no I do not want to have sex with others at all and I do not want you to either- as three-somes, whatever- I married you and you married me, monogamy was part of our vows (we wrote our own vows) and is my value right here, right now. End of discussion. If he wants to go off and do whatever, that is his deal. If I ever find out about it, its done. We are separated right now and I have no idea what he is doing. But that is on him- he is an adult and makes his choices. If he is involved with someone/others, he knows my boundary and that will be that, plain and simple and frankly, it makes it all crystal clear for me, too- this is the good side of having a clear boundary. Keep it simple. Hugs, J.
PS: which island are you on? If you are on Oahu, please PM me, there are SO MANY GREAT al anon groups here!! I will pick you up and we can go to a meeting together : )!!
I keep hearing about how amazing it is so many of us have similar stories, but for whatever reason, I thought mine was one of the more "out there" ones with the sexual identity issues.
"Misery loves company"... and it's refreshing to be able to relate to others on more levels than the alcoholism alone.
Such a weird, strange world we all live in.
Unfortunately, I don't live on Oahu (if I did, I'd certainly take you up on your offer!!) I live on the Big Island.
Going off topic here - but I'm so jealous of all your beaches on Oahu! (Not sure if you've been to the Big Island yet or not, but while there are beaches there's more lava-rock shorelines than sandy ones).
Thanks everyone - your posts in relation to me bring me some level of comfort. My blessings and heart-felt love to those of you going through the same thing (whether you live on a tropical island or are snow-bound).
LOL! Big difference!!