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i have no experience with suicide, my boyfriend A wants to come home after his suicide attempt, he called this morning and told me he might be out this afternoon. i told him "let's talk and we'll see" and he sounded okay with that.
i need to know ... do people who attempt suicide, which i consider a violent impulse (towards themselves), do they turn it outwards into violence towards their family? i say family because we've lived together for almost 2 years, and has accepted my daughter as his own.
trying to get hold of a counseling service this morning, for low-income families, so far the one i called is for children only. i'm going to try the women's center, but they counsel those involved in domestic violence. i have no idea if this fits the category at all!
i'm so happy he's alive. at the same time sooooo confused ... he clarified his attempt to me this morning, he said that he 'tried and failed, then drove himself to the hospital' ... i asked, drove to the hospital for injuries, or mental help? he wouldn't say. he said the dr. he saw this morning was a 'troll' who knew nothing, and didn't say he needed antidepressants.
i thought ppl who attempted suicide got arrested and were forced into therapy, but not in this state apparently.
is suicidal behavior part of the 'disease' of alcoholism? i keep trying to wrap my mind around how sick he is in his disease, but then he's been clean and sober (he says) for 22 years, and counseled others for many years. i would think someone clean and sober wouldn't be stuck in the disease like someone actively drinking or using would be ... or am i wrong? need to know!
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To know the darkness is to love the light, to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
The definition of insanity is,"doing the same thing,and expecting a different result."
I will tell you dear what I see. Does not mean I am right.
Number one A's lie to get what they want. A's being the person who is driven by the disease. How do we know he really tried to kill himself? He could of put a rope around his neck and rubbed it raw, or tightened it up and pulled it. There are so many scenarios.
Common sense tells me it is manipulation by a very sick person. How does one try to hang themselves? Where did he put the rope? Was he inside?
Does not really matter. Your answer is to what will happen? Exactly the same thing over and over and over dragging you down in the same awful pit your A is in.
And no attempting suicide is not a symptom of alanon, however manipulation is.
it is totally up to you if you choose to got through more of this. A's get worse and worse as time passes.
I am telling you they get worse in ways we never would think of.They may go to detox and or rehab, however be clean a day or ten years, but almost all A's relapse and are right where they were when they left off.
Sounds so negative,sadly it is. Can't make a disease pretty.
Once I learned and believed all about the disease, even though I have loved my A all my life,if he got back on program and was straight ten years I would NOT have him back.His disease has about killed me.As it is I am about homeless, constantly fighting to keep my home.
I don't even have a normal vehicle now. I won't go into it.
Getting the info he drove himself is very telling.
Being an addict has many symptoms. Yes he can act out when not using. Using a drug is only a symptom of being an addict.
Him counseling others means nothing. MY husbands best friend was a counselor for Serenity Lane.He relapsed on every drug imaginable and died a summer ago oding at his mothers house.
Have you read, "Getting Them Sober?" It tells so many truths.
What made you ask him to leave in the first place? what has changed? What did he do to change?Did HE call a doctor? Did he look for a psychiatrist?Did he walk into AA?
Counseling with just anyone will be useless.Most regular counselors up to psychiatrists know nothing about the disease of being an addict.
If he were that desperate for REAL help,well he counseled why didn't he go to a mental health facility?
The disease is playing games and wants to drag you in. To be honest,I doubt he tried to do anything. He was feeling desperate as he was about to lose his easy life. The disease is that powerful hon.
What he will do next, no one can predict. But most likely, if he moves back in with you, you'll be back in hell.
I don't like to give advice.................. but.................... if I were in your shoes, I would not let him back home. I would stand my ground. I would seek out understanding through many avenues: this board, books, counseling, and alanon meetings.
I wish I had known years ago what I know now; I would have saved all involved a lot of heartache and turmoil. When I stood my ground ( I left the relationship) that is when things got better.
Hoping the best for you and those involved. Stormie
I got so sick of living in chaos and then I missed it when it was gone and now I don't anymore!
There would always be some drama or emergency or freak thing that only happened to him I remember thinking, why do freak things never happen to me? Nobody ever spikes my soda with opiates at school LMAO in reflection of that.
Rule 1
A's Lie and Manipulate to get what they want
Rule 2
In order for it to work the person being manipulated has to allow it by
a. feeling guilty in some way b. feeling sorry for them c. accepting their lies as truth even though deep down they don't believe it and their gut says something is wrong. d. doing things they really don't want to do just to avoid conflict or keep the A happy.
From what you said, it sounds to me like this was a total manipulation on his part. People who honestly try to kill themselves don't drive themselves to the hospital. I bet he didn't get a lot of sympathy at the hospital. Making FAKE suicide attempts to get attention or manipulate is EXTREME emotional abuse. ANY counselor will tell you that this is serious psychological abuse. Physical abuse is not the only type of abuse you have to worry about I'd rather be hit really hard a few times and be done with it than to have someone tell me they were going to kill themselves over and over every time I didn't say or do what they wanted and have that gut wrenching, crying for hours, up all night kind of manipulation abuse ever again!!
The main question here is
What do you gain? How does it help you to let him come back? What do you think he'll do the next time you tell him to leave if this gets him back in this time?
This program is about doing for you, taking care of you and your daughter. The guilt and pain are not yours to bear, they're his. All I know from years and years of social work experience and training is that you letting him come back is a positive reward for what he did. It reinforces the behavior. You teach other people how to treat you and letting him come back is teaching him that it's ok to manipulate you by doing fake suicide attempts and ripping your heart out.
The most important thing I learned here was that I don't have to make snap decisions. I can think about things for days or weeks before coming out with an answer despite whether he wants an instant answer or not. That has served me very well.
Why not try to talk to the doctors who treated him at hospital, see what insight they can give you?
Right now you have some power - you have something he wants. If you just give it to him, without any conditions attached, then rest assured you will be right back where you were.
It looks as if you are taking this suicide attempt more seriously than he is, which does support the idea that it was mostly about getting you to do what he wants, rather than a real attempt. Now he can hold this over your head, everytime you are firm with him.
I'd turn the tables - hold it over HIS head, instead. Tell him the truth - you are worried that if he is capable of hurting himself, he could hurt you or your child. You are worried that he will do this again. This attempt has devastated you, and you don't feel able to live with the possibility of it happening again. It's up to HIM to come up with something that would reassure you, not up to YOU to make him feel better.
He's out of the house now, and has offered you the opportunity to require some real improvement before you let him come back. Why not take this chance to take care of yourself and your child, rather than him?
what could happen ??god only knows . often suicide attempts are another way of controlling the situation he wants to come home u feel guilty that he tried u let him home the next time u don't do what he wants , who knows. If he is a threat to himself and others call the police let them deal with it . You said he drove himself to the hospital hmmmmmmmm did the doc tell u this or is A telling u what happened . I would call the hospital to see if he ever went there . a's have been known to lie occasionally , again to get what they want. Take care of you and your daughter you have to become your first priority NOW . There is help for him all he has to do is walk into an AA meeting they will understand him and help . good luck Louise
My ESH is that BECAUSE he pulled a stunt like this it is the perfect reason to NOT let him return. You are not a psychiatrist, you are not qualified to deal with his disease/mental illness. J.
thank you, i have a lot of reading to do, the big book is here in the house somewhere.
when we talked this afternoon, he wasn't there. i mean it, he was NOT there. just some form of emptiness beyond depression. said he meant what he said when he wants to break up, and he's never coming home.
his first call, he told me not to tell any of his friends. now i have nothing to lose, he can't re-break up with me if i tell them, eh? very badly want to tell one of his friends, he has a HUGE network of friends and prayer and support awaiting him. all with experience in AA and some with NA. i feel like i'm betraying him, then again it could be betraying him to let him be isolated. part of me also feels selfish, i want to "hand it over" to the people who know him longer than i do, better than i do.
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To know the darkness is to love the light, to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
Sadako, I hope that you can find some literature on detachment. Its not your job to tell his friends anything. Stick to your side of the street and focus on YOU. hugs and love, J.
He wants to come home... He said he's never coming home....
The Big Book is a great book but be sure you are reading it to help YOU and not how to fix/help him. He is the only one that can do that.
As I have said before, allow him the dignity to right himself. There is no dignity in someone saving him and much dignity in conquering his demons himself.
Christy.
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
well, i called one of his friends. i did it for me, not for my boyfriend, though. because his friends know me enough to know i'm disabled and have a child and can use some help perhaps. the friend said i could call him anytime for advice, and he might come over tomorrow just to talk. he said he'd tell the big "network" of friends and it's likely all of them will call him at the hospital and say "xxxx you" which is what my boyfriend needs to hear and can understand. (sounds strange, but his friend told me not to worry about things, it's in God's hands now, let all his friends help out. so i think i did the right thing, i mean, they're his friends but willing to pray not just for him but also for me and my daughter and also to help if we need something.
i KNOW he did whatever he did for his own reasons. i mean, either he loves me or he doesn't, if he wants to live with me, it has to be because he loves me and wants to be with me. that's all there is to it. i've told him this many times! i'm set on it.
i was reading websites about suicidal attempts (googled) and a lot of them say to make the home non-stressful and welcoming, don't push the person when they get out of the hospital, etc. but that doesn't apply here, it seems like alcoholics have different rules and needs?
-- Edited by canadianguy on Monday 23rd of March 2009 12:51:21 AM
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To know the darkness is to love the light, to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
I think in a lot of ways alcholics DO have different rules. We can't forget, with an active A end even with a dry one, that the underlying assuption is to feed the addiction. Anything that will do that, whether or not it is in the person's best interests, is what they do.
So, a non addict who is having trouble in his marrriage will go to marriage counselling to find out how to make the marriage work better. An addict will go in order to quiet the spouse so that drinking can go on unimpeded. This is not to say that alcoholics don't want their lives to work better, don't care about their families, etc. It's just that there is always that hidden agenda, driving things.
Threatening suicide is a form of emotional abuse and manipulation. If you visit your domestic shelter, you will likely be surprised that you might fit some of the criteria after all. They have free counseling, legal services, can get you a protective order. It's worth investigating and you have nothing to lose.
