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Post Info TOPIC: Affected by Alcoholism? Who Isn't?


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Affected by Alcoholism? Who Isn't?


Sometimes when I look at people around me outside of the program, I get the feeling that I'm looking at the "other side".  Those people who have been fortunate enough to have gotten through life so far without a significant alcoholic in their lives.  They don't have the isms, they don't seem to be all stressed out trying to compensate for the giant sucking black hole that an active alcoholic creates.  An event horizon that spreads far beyond immediate family. Yes, these people seem to be pretty well adjusted and unaffected by alcoholism.  So do I envy these people?

Actually, I don't.  One thing I've learned is that things are not as they seem.  Most of the people I know outside the program don't share a lot about their personal lives.  Sometimes I hear a few hints dropped.  I honestly don't think any of them are that far away from an alcoholic... and perhaps they aren't as far away as they think.

Granted, having an alcholic uncle or cousin or old friend from high school that lives in another state isn't the same as having an alcoholic spouse, parent, or child under the same roof.  But the ripples do come through, in one form or another.  It's what I call "Alanonanon".  Alcoholics affect those closest to them directly, and those close to them who develop the codependent, compensating behavior we are all too familiary with affect others around them.

Ok, so you've never loaned money to an alcoholic.  But what about your sister, whose alcoholic husband cleaned out her bank account - and you loaned her money?  Just an example. 

Six degrees to Kevin Bacon?  I think even the most pristine of the "earth people" are no more than 3 degrees from an alcoholic.  If I had to make a guesstimate, I'd say that 25% of the population of the United States is one degree from alcoholism.  That means they have an alcoholic in their immediate family - spouse, child, parent, sibling - or in their circle of friendship - or within their close circle of co-workers, co-students, or whatever. 

I have just been musing about all of this... my girlfriend is not an A, her parents were not, nor were her previous husbands, nor are her co-workers.  She's hanging out with me (sober A) so that right there puts here at one degree, but as I've discovered, she was already there - after seeing some "hey y'all watch this!!" behavior at a large family gathering.  LOL.

I've qualified myself for Alanon by way of my father, daughter, and uncle... but in a way, I'm even more qualified by my mother and my ex-wife.  Neither are alcoholics, but both of them developed all of the isms... and passed them on to me.

As to my coworkers... yes, they all seem squeaky clean at first but once I get to know them, I find they are really no different from me.  Well ok, they are different in one important way: I have my Alanon, and AA program.  That doesn't make me better than them, but it does give me a clearer view of who I am.  I always loved the AA promises, but in particular, "We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us".  Which I find myself not only applying to the alcoholics, but the rest of the so-called "normal" world as well.  Without my program, I found people who seemed to have their act together to be intimidating - I felt inferior to them.  Now I realize I was comparing my insides to their outsides.  And even though it's none of my business, I'd be surprised if none of them have ever been touched by alcoholism somewhere in their lives.

Barisax

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~*Service Worker*~

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Barisax!  Aloha and great reflective post.

So what was the part of your girl friend having exhusbands?  How did that come about.  No need to break her anonymity just a reflective question.  As long as I have been in this program and while I was going to college on the diseases of alcoholism and substance abuse, it has been mentioned that 1 alcoholic will affect significantly the lives of 20 people.  I have found this true and in some cases a low count considering the demographics of the alcoholic. 
"Alcoholism affects everyone it comes in contact with..." is part of the definition of alcoholism we use to read at the opening of each Al-Anon meeting I use
to attend when first coming into recovery.  

Alcohol is and should be openly recognized as a "controlled" substance.  How it is manufactured, distributed and sold should be more strictly "controlled" and those who manufacture, distribute and vend it should have the same education as those who work in the field of recovery.  Give me your feed back on this as I am working toward change here. confused

(((hugs)))   

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~*Service Worker*~

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great post, the same thought has struck me too and when I come across the aisms without any awareness, I know exactly what you mean. I think we are lucky to have the board to share, I know it has changed me in a very positive way and I have a lot of admiration for all here.

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Maire rua


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Jerry:  her first marriage was when she was very young, didn't last long.  Her second husband passed away a few years ago (not from alcoholism). 

Re. controlled substances, etc - I realize AA collectively has no opinion on outside issues.  My personal opinion is that prohibition and temperance movements have failed miserably, and created the organized crime system that today deals drugs.  If not for the control and illegality of these substances, there would not be the obscene profit that comes from producing and trafficking - and there would not be the violent crime that accompanies it.  IMO further regulation of alcohol (and drugs) is detrimental; what is needed is to hold people accountable for the personal choices they make, and responsible for their actions.  Most laws (or toughening of laws) attempt compensate for an inability to enforce existing laws; the result is an ever-increasing spiral of unenforceable laws.  Also, in case no one has noticed, criminals do not pay any attention to laws.  Writing more of them has no effect on their behavior.

Barisax

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This is a great post.  The truth is that any person -- healthy or unhealthy -- will affect everyone around them and their behaviors will have a rippling effect. It is not merely the domain of alcoholism. The difference is that good and healthy behaviors are seldom noticed and few people bother to ruminate on them.  However, negative influences cause us to reflect upon them and thus they last longer; and because in many cases it is harmful, we become more sensitive to them and may alter our behaviors because of them. For instance, when I am driving my car and am in the wrong lane, if someone lets me into the lane I am happy.  Maybe I will let the next person into the lane, but I doubt I will think about that event past a few moments.  On the other hand, if I am driving and in the wrong lane, and the other drivers dont let me into my lane and I miss my turn, I will think about that the entire day and I will rant about it to anyone who will listen.


There are very many addicts in this world. People are addicted to illegal drugs, to prescription drugs, to alcohol, to gambling, to pornography, to sex, to just about anything that one can become addicted to.  An emotionally healthy and secure person will recognize the addiction and will take measures to protect himself from the actions of others.  However, that is not always possible.  If, in the course of business I am dealing with an addict who fails to perform, I can refuse to do business with that person ever again, but I have lost time. If in the course of friendship I am dealing with someone who is an addict, I can forbid them to be around me when they are under the influence, or I can become annoyed enough to end the association. 


If in the course of family life I am dealing with an addict, their actions more directly involve me.  I can, to an extent, separate my life and finances from them.  Separating my emotions is more difficult.  Maintaining emotional and physical distance while I watch them kill themselves (and possibly others) takes its toll.  I can remove myself from their sphere of influence, but that takes a very emotionally strong person. 


I can try really hard to avoid situations. I can make a personal declaration that I will not deal with addicts in any form, that I will not accept intolerable behavior, that I am prepared to protect myself  by leaving the situation.  But, life happens. I dont think we can protect ourselves from everything that any one will ever do to us.  Certainly I could not prevent my neighbors dog from attacking me.  I could not prevent the idiot behind the wheel from striking my car.  I could not stop the lottery officials from picking the wrong numbers so that I lost the chance at $1,000,000.  It may be that once we learn self-preservation, (application of boundaries) we are less influenced by the actions of others, or we learn to appropriately modify our response, or we learn to take things in stride, or we learn to recognize the role we are playing in the continuing drama.  



-- Edited by ditto at 19:14, 2007-11-26

-- Edited by ditto at 19:19, 2007-11-26

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CJ


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In a past psych class, I've learned that approximately 50,000,000 people over the age of 11 has binged on alcohol once.... within the last year.... in the U.S. alone.  Our country is shy of 300,000,000 population. 

I would not trade in any of my hardships that got me to program ~~~ my eyes are finally open.  Thanks for the thread, Bari.

-c-

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Dear Barisax,

Now that was a thought-provoking post, and it makes perfect sense. However, I think if anyone other than someone in "program" were to read it, they'd probably be baffled. "What the heck is he talking about"? I think for the most part, alcoholism is associated with the derilicts, street bums, bag ladies, old men with big red noses, etc.. That is what I thought and would have said a year and a half ago. Interesting in that I lived with alcoholism for most of my marriage, but have only known it for last year. And, it wasn't until those around me (my ah's sister and an employee) set up an intervention because of drug abuse to put my ah in rehab that I realized it,"oh gosh, I guess the drinking is a problem too?" They didn't even know like I did that he was passed out at the office every night, regularly driving drunk, and not coming home til the wee hrs of the morning. I was distraught, frustrated, having anxiety attacks, going to therapy, doing crazy drive-bys and engaging in controlling behavior, etc., and I had no idea. What it comes down to is, you don't know what you don't know. Well, that and DENIAL smile.gif

I now see my bestfriend's husband who regualrly gets snockered at social events and passes out in closets, urinating all over himself, in a new light. Oh, and then there is my brother, who sets up a mini-bar in his hotel room on vacation and falls asleep in his food. What? He's not just tired? These are clean, attractive, professional men. I want to just scream, "Get to AA and al-anon now!", but alas, it is too soon. Not a real problem yet, ya know?

I went to a seminar given by a Psychiatrist a couple of weeks ago. He said that in one of his graduate studies programs ( I think it was at Duke University) he learned of a study that quoted an estimated 70% of all hospitalizations were alcohol-related. This translated from the guy dying of liver disease, to the car accident victim who's tire was improperly fixed by a guy with a hang-over. Certainly makes you think....

So, yes, I am with you. I believe alcoholism touches way more lives than we can know.

Blessings,

Lou



-- Edited by Loupiness at 23:54, 2007-11-26

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barisax,

Where I live everyone is effected by alcoholism. A very common thread. When I travel or meet new people I think to myself now they have had a great life. They look so put together and seem to have it all. When you get to know them sometimes their stories are the wickedest ones around. But that is my sickness thinking poor old me. No one has my problems. Great post.

In support,
Nancy

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Barisax,

You hit the nail right on the head with this post. I can only say that I am so thankful that I now am able to acknowledge the alcoholic in my life and thus get help for myself. For 34 years I was living like all of the people on the "other side" and unable to admit that I was living with an alcoholic.

Claudia

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heck, the guy running our country is one...

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I agree, and many great posts here.
I wonder if anyone has NOT been touched by the disease.

Right now, I'm the reluctant messenger by default in my family of origin (FOO).
And you've heard of "kill the messenger."
The entire FOO is steeped in denial.
I never accused anyone of anything, but just the fact that I mentioned I'm in Alanon has become the finger of blame.
Ahhh, cunning and baffling disease!



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"Peace is the perfume of God." - Prem Rawat



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a lot of good thought provoking comments....

and I totally agree with the observation that prohibition never worked... to me it is like gun control it just keeps guns out of honest peoples hands... in prohibition the alcohol is just kept away from the causual drinker... those who really want it will get it...

I mean look how well the government / drug enforcement keeps the drugs out of peoples hands and off the streets....

I understand that alcoholism/addiction is a desease.....

but I have seen the legal system get further away from treating the problem as a desease... for example...

not sure if any of you heard about the state (I believe California) Supreme Court ruling saying that a court could not order a person convicted of drug or alcohol related offence to AA.. their reason was that AA is a religious organization because it mentions god in it's literature....

Now we all know that AA/NA/Alanon are not religious organizations.. they are spiritual... but if this rulling stands it is going to tie the hands of those who can get someone in the door, and hopefully they can hear what they need to .. to really get help... and push more people away because they do not want religiion in their lives...

at least in my opinoin...

ok.. sorry if I offended anyone talking about this.. and I will get off my soap box...

again.. these posts really got me thinking again.... not necessarily a good thing.. but I was thinking.... : )

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<blockquote>
not sure if any of you heard about the state (I believe California) Supreme Court ruling saying that a court could not order a person convicted of drug or alcohol related offence to AA.. their reason was that AA is a religious organization because it mentions god in it's literature....
</blockquote>

I agree with the court ruling, but for a different reason.

I don't think it's the government's place to order anyone to join any program that is not government run.  Court can order a person to jail, or to a state-run halfway house or treatment program, but they can't make you join a church, the Boy Scouts, the Red Hat Society, or a Country Club.  Why should they be able to make someone join AA?  It has nothing to to with religion, although that is frequently dragged into it.

Court-ordered AA is one of those things that AA as a group has to stay out of... it's really an outside issue and AA has no opinion on it.  I say it's outside because even though it technically affects AA, getting involved would mean getting involved in politics. 

This might make AA seem helpless, but I still see this as a strength.  Courts have long taken advantage of the policy of most AA groups accepting court-ordered people, and signing their papers etc.  But the individual groups don't have to do this.  "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking".  This could include court-ordered people - IF they have a desire to stop drinking.  We need only ask them - a yes or no answer is all that is needed.  AA groups collectively and individually are under no obligation to sign court papers, but because many do, it creates the impression to outsiders (and a court-ordered alcoholic who doesn't want to be there is an outsider) that AA is part of the "system".  I've even heard people say "You have to sign this", which is usually met with laughter.

I once chaired a meeting and a guy came up afterwards with his paper.  I scrawled my usual illegible signature and he said he needed me to print my name (first and last) and phone number.  I laughed out loud... I said you're on probation, not me.... 

I was at a meeting one time in a San Jose clubhouse.  I counted 62 people in the room; after the meeting the chairperson announced there were 75 court papers to be signed up on the desk. 

AA tolerates this because there is a chance that someone might get sober this way.  I know quite a few people whose initial contact with AA was court ordered, and they are sober today.  We have something of a symbiosis... courts ordering AA just because they can, and we accept people if they say they have a desire to stop drinking, and many meetings especially clubhouses it's acceptable to sign court papers.  But none of it is obligatory.

When the government advocates or endorses a particular program, they are taking some responsibility for success or failure.  This opens up a political debate about AA and does it or does it not work, etc.  AA can't prevent this, and our traditions prohibit us from participating in a group capacity.  While the debate rages on and rulings go this way and that, AA continues on, for those who want it.  There are and probably always will be government-backed substance abuse treatment plans and programs... they may or may not "suggest" AA along with their own program.  But AA isn't part of the government, nor part of the penal system. 

Boy am I glad!

Barisax


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