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I posted the other day about my mom leaving my A dad after almost 30 years of marriage. What I didn't say was that a few months prior to my mom leaving him I had attended an Al-Anon group that I wanted my mom to attend as well. I gave her some literature to it along with some group phone numbers etc. Well she never did make it to a meeting, she said she didn't have time, but I think she was just emberrased. However she did manage to make some calls and she found a few long time Al-Anon members who were willing to talk with her on the phone. My understanding is my mom started calling them to talk about her problems etc. Well when my A dad found out about this he had a fit. He went mad checking mom's cell phone, phone bills and calling the unknown numbers etc trying to find out who these people were. When he found out that mom had gotten the literature from me (he had asked me if I knew WHO hooked my mom up with the info on Al-Anon and I told him it was me) he became very upset with me. He confronted me about it (at that moment he was going to AA groups) he told me that I had opened a can of worms and that I had betrayed him. He made it seem like Al-Anon was going to brain wash my mom into leaving him and after a few months when she did leave him, he had the nerve to blame ME all because I had given her the literature. He said that I had given her the amo to leave him. He even told me that he had told a few members of his then AA group about my mom speaking to Al-Anon members and he says they told him 'he was screwed'.
So my question is how does Alcoholic's Annonymous view the Al-Anon family? Do they really see it as an enemy rather than a tool to help and support their families?
-- Edited by Hopeless in AZ at 21:39, 2007-11-20
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Grant me the strenght to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference!
WHOA, I have been attending al-anon recovery groups for going on two years now and NEVER have I heard of any official AA group having any kind of problem with al-anon/alateen groups, WHATSOEVER.
It sounds like to me that he is manipulating you, blaming and shaming you and lying to you which is what A's are experts at. Others may have more ESH on this topic. This sounds particularly heinous to me in a way- al-anon/alateen works so well in partnership with AA- many meetings are scheduled simultaneously (but separately). AA was developed by Bill and al-anon was developed by Lois, his wife, later. They were designed to work together. Check the history of AA/Al-non on-line and see.
I haven't checked into the history of AA/Al-Anon, but I will.
I did find it hard to believe that someone at AA would say that to my A dad, and yes my dad is known to manipulate and push blame on others so that is easy to believe. My dad seriously acted crazy about the whole Al-Anon thing, he acted like we all had some big conspiracy against him. This was last year though and he hasn't brough it up again. Or at least he just doesn't say it to my face. (sigh)
Oh well just though I would ask since I'm not familiar with the history/relationship between the two groups.
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Grant me the strenght to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference!
Yeah, most of my A's think I am in a cult (al-anon). My AH thinks I am getting brainwashed. I say that is just fine and yes, maybe I need to get my brain washed from all the toxic energy from growing up with, getting married to and having friends with A's. I keep the focus on myself and I am doing what is best for me. I feel good. They don't. Nuff said.
The thing that is so insulting about the whole brainwash song and dance is that they believe we are just these brainless idiots who are looking to be told what to do. Good god, that could not be further from the truth. Al-anoners are some of the most independent thinking people on the planet, I swear. And some of the most stubborn. We have worked so hard not to believe in al-anon, in so many ways. But we need it. I sure do.
I think that A's don't like Alanon, mostly because when they screw up again there's no one there to bail them out anymore. I know my A was really irritated with it and still is but that's HIS problem not mine! It works for me and I guess that's all that matters. I think that there is a general feeling of dislike of alanon among A's although I think that it is only for the reason stated above, it makes them fully accountable for their own actions. It's much harder for them to "slip" when they don't have a spouse who will tolerate it. Also, AA members who have actually done the work and made changes don't have a problem with it so much as those still wanting to live in the disease whether they are drinking or not.
Naaaa. I don't buy it that an AA said that. Well, not a real AA in recovery. I agree with Jean, I think that your dad is maniupulating you. What the A's do best. Keep the focus on you instead of themselves. Remember Al-Anon is a by attraction not promotion. We have to hit our bottom too.
Hi there ,well it seems to vary from area to area , but the general attitude seems to be fear on the part of the alcoholic . tho they have no idea what we do or talk about in our meetings alot feel that if you join our program u will leave the relationship and yes occasionally that does happen as women begin to find themselves and the courage to end a relationship . We do not give advice on wether to leave a marriage or not , never been to a meeting in 20 yrs where the topic was , * leave him * . A , AA speaker summed it up for me along time ago he said in his opinion mosts A's resented Al-Anon because we no longer beilieve the bull and that we know more about the disease or at least as much as much as the alcoholic detachment seems to upset most alcoholics that I have talked to personally , when we no longer do for them what they should be doing for themselves they don't like it , keeping in mind that they didn't like it when we were trying to save them either , go figure . I don't understand why and alcoholic would not want an informed partner one who understands what they go thru but has enough sence to know that it is not any of our business and leave them to recover thier way while working on our own issues. this is just my opinion . Louise
my A said "Im glad you found tht site,maby you can find the answers I cant".Again trying to make me "fix" him.I think most women dont believe there are others who are going through the exact thing they are ,and they are embarrased to talk about it.Even though everyone around them already knows.I was.I thought I was the only one.Well Im not.I have found out tht his drinking is alot worse thn most A's.And tht scares me.I think what most A's are afraid of most is tht we wil come out of our shell and see the light.Its called empowerment.And they dont know how to deal with it.
My ah knows of, but says nothing about me going to meetings. However, being that he does not want to be an alcoholic or have it define him at all, I think it is hard for him to acknowledge that my attendance must mean I have been affected by an alcoholic. In our situation, he is the only one who fits the bill. Ouch.
Blessings,
Lou
-- Edited by Loupiness at 23:05, 2007-11-20
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
Actually, in our area, we beg the partners/children/family to go to the meetings. But, I'm concerned about something bigger.
Honey, I want you read my next sentence very carefully: absolutely nothing, absolutely NOTHING, you did caused 1) your mom to get completely sick and tired of your father's drinking; 2) your mom to pick up the phone and talk to al anon members; 3) for your mother to take the suggestions of the al anon members and put them into her life; 4) for your mother to make decisions about her life as it was, and what she wanted out of it; 5) for your mother to make a decision about leaving your dad.
I want you to read the next part carefully, too: NOTHING, absolutely, NOTHING your father can do 1) can change how things are now; 2) can change what your mother gave herself permission to do, which was live in a different way; 3)can dominate, manipulate, justify, argue, or con YOU into being a middle messenger, a mediator, or any other sort of individual that can be bullied to play ball in the name of your father's disease; 4) can keep you from working a program of recovery, learning about yourself, and being a better person for working the program of al anon.
Please, think hard about what I've just said. You are a brave person for coming into Al Anon. Don't let a disease of cowardace blow you down.
My A told me once that Al Anon was an A's greatest enemy.
A's don't like to go down alone,the disease wants to drag everyone around it, in with it. It knows once you find out all its secrets, it cannot manipulate you anymore. As we know, it is a very selfish disease.
As I read posts of so many years I see that one of the mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Around here AA and Alanon are very cooperative. Our biggest problem is a couple of the older AA guys calling it the ladies meeting. That bugs me personally, but whatever. I have noticed that the ones who have a problem with it are the ones who don't have a recovery program, or are still faking it. As Deb says the disease is scared of our recovery, so it lashes out at us and uses Alanon as another excuse.
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~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
When my AH sober first came to an anniversary meeting with me, he had just over a year sober, and trying to figure out what to expect, he asked me, "so are they going to be talking about 'the enemy'?"
I was shocked, and I said so. I told him I had NEVER heard alcoholics referred to in that way in any meeting I had been to.
This anniversary meeting had both an Alanon speaker and an AA speaker, and the first thing out of the AA speaker's mouth was, "you know, you guys used to be 'the enemy'".
I think "used to be" is crucial here. As others have said, an A who is not in recovery or who is still in early recovery (and keeping in mind that early recovery lasts a long time) may well feel threatened by Alanon. However, an A with a strong long term program of attending the meetings and working the steps is likely to recognize that a relationship where both parties have their own program is likelier to survive. In fact we heard a speaker this summer with over 20 years sobriety, and he said he would no longer sponsor guys unless their spouse was in Alanon. Sometimes the SPOUSES would get annoyed with this! I asked, do they come back later and say thank you? Oh yes, he said.
You didn't do anything wrong. He's been to AA - he knows where it is if he wants his life to get better.
"So my question is how does Alcoholic's Annonymous view the Al-Anon family? Do they really see it as an enemy rather than a tool to help and support their families?"
this is my opinion and thoughts about this i am an alcoholic and an addict in recovery.
every morning i read the aa forum, then i read this one.
this one actually helps me to understand what i did or could be doing to the people who love me and care for me.
i have never read or heard any alcoholic in a meeting or in any literature criticizing alanon members.
i am grateful for alanon becisue it helps to keep me sober.
I was surprised to hear from my sober AH that alot of As still think that in Al-Anon all we do is bash the A. He no longer believes that because he has seen how I work my program and the fruit of that work in my life.
That being said, my guess is that that belief stems from a number of things....
* in the A's mind, it is all about the A. So, it is logical that the A would think that all we do is talk about the A--didn't we do that for years?? didn't our lives revolve around the A?? So why wouldn't our meetings??
* when we participate in Al-Anon, we learn to take care of ourselves and to detach with love from the A. In my experience, we we detach, the A feels a loss of control and that leads to fear. When we are afraid, we tend to strike out. I think that the obvious manipulation is simply an attempt to regain whatever semblance of control that the A thinks that he/she has over us.
* when we admit that we are sick and start to work to get better, the A can no longer look to us to mirror his/her own illness. The A then has two choices (1) look in the mirror and face his/her own reality or (2) continue to live in denial in which case he/she has to either convince us to stay sick (forego Al-Anon) or find someone else to enable him/her.
The bottom line for me is that it is none of my business what my soberAH or other As think about my program. I know that if I work it, it works and that I want to be healthy. It is my hope that my A will try to get healthy too, but I am not going to spend the second 1/2 of my life staying sick just so that he has company when it suits him.
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Do not be anxious about tomorrow; tomorrow will look after itself. The Bible, from Courage to Change, p.138
Maybe my take on this is not the norm but, as a sober alcholic I have far LESS tolerance for the BS of an active alcoholic than the average Alanoner.
I was exposed to Alanon at a young age, and my dad very much treated it as "the enemy", as he did the marriage counselor both my parents went to. So I grew up with both sides in my head - some of the Alanon message, but also the alcoholic's belief that Alanon was a conspiracy to ruin his life.
As soon as I began going to AA, I encouraged my wife to go to Alanon. She did, a few times. I was not the only alcoholic in her life - she had a mother, sister, daughter, and previous ex-husband to chalk up in that column. I didn't have any fear that Alanon would cause her to dump me - especially since I was sober. She rejected the Alanon program, with logic that reminded me of my dad's last word on AA (10 days before his liver failed and he was found dead): "It's a great program for people who need it".
My wife felt she was the life-long victim of alcoholics, that it was their fault and that it wasn't her duty to work on herself. When I voluntarily added myself to that long list of alcoholics in her life, she felt betrayed by me. I now realize that she put much of her unresolved feelings toward her mother (who died when I was 6 months sober) right on me, just because I was convenient, an admitted alcoholic, and at that time, willing to put up with just about anything to keep the relationship going.
Of course it didn't work out that way. She is long gone, and still untreated although she runs the gamut of self-help and religions on a regular cycle, always attaching herself to a mentor who always ends up letting her down.
When I met my current girlfriend, I disclosed to her that I was a sober alcoholic in our first phone conversation. She has alcoholics in her extended family. I suggested Alanon almost immediately. She attended some open AA meetings with me and she wanted to come to more - I suggested Alanon and she has been going to meetings at least when there is a convenient AA + Alanon in the same place.
I am not worried that my girlfriend will hear something or discover something within the walls of Alanon that will cause her to not like me any more or want to end the relationship. I know now from being in Alanon myself, that it's not about that. What many active A's fail to comprehend is that by the time their spouse goes to Alanon, they are at the end of their rope. While it would be nice to see more people get involved in the program before their whole world is crumbling down, frequently that's what it takes. Alanon no more causes divorce than ambulances cause accidents. But to the casual observer, or just one who is unable to look at the facts, they do seem to go hand in hand.
For me, my ex had two distinct stages of feelings about Al-Anon.... When she was active, and not involved in her own recovery, she hated it, with all the usual paranoia.... I was either getting brainwashed, or using it to find other women, or (mainly) badmouthing her all the time.... She despised me for going, and told me it showed I was "weak".
Once she got sober, and truly chose recovery, however, she sees Al-Anon in a new light, and has a lot of respect for the program and it's philosophies. She hasn't made it yet, but many alcoholics (in recovery) also need Al-Anon, and it is quite a useful step for them to take...
Your Dad's behavior, in my humble opinion, is the rants of somebody who doesn't quite "get it" yet with respect to his own recovery, the role of Al-Anon, or perhaps the extent of what your Mom has endured.
Al-Anon neither encourages nor discourages people from leaving, and "sane" people in recovery typically accept and agree on this.
Take care Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
When I first started attending Al-anon meetings my AH flipped out. He was just so sure that I was going to go there and find an excuse to leave him.
Although he still throws it up in my face that I am failing at my program whenever we go through rough spots in our relationship I think he is pleased and surprised at the changes in me because of my program. I might point out though that he himself attends AA meetings very infrequently.
Although my AH is still drinking, I am doing just fine BECAUSE OF my program. I agree with the others, your Dad is behaving like a typical A who wants to keep drinking and keep on manipulating your Mom.
Take Care,
Claudia
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A person's a person no matter how small --Dr Suess
