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If you have read my topics you know that I have let my AH come back home. Now I am starting to regret my decision. Here is why and please tell me if I am being unreasonable or if he is reverting back to old abusive behaviors. It feels like the latter to me.
Some background, my Ah was very emotionally abusive in the past, as well as 2 incidents of physival abuse. We were seperated for 7 months while he completed alcohol treatment etc. Anyway, before this from last April and earlier one of his forms of abuse was withholding of affection, something he knows I need a lot of, just because I love him, and love hugging and kissing and just being affectionate. He withheld by refusing to kiss me, avoiding my kiss or touch except when he wanted it, or during sex. I talked to him numerous times about this, but he always had some excuse, he was worried about something or had something else he had to do . Fast forward to July. I start visiting him at Faith, and up until now or the past 2 weeks he lavished me with affection, compliments, kisses, was very amourous, loved for me to be same with him, we were very close, emotional, always touching, etc. Before I asked him to come back home we talked all the time, spent at least an hour a day together sometimes 4 or more. during the time together he was wonderful, loving, talked , listened, basically all the things he had never done before. He had stopped all abusive behaviors. He promised me that when he came home none of this would change. That he would never withhold again, never hurt me like he did again. I believed him
he has been home almost 2 weeks and I feel like it has all changed, and I told him that I did not want this to happen before he moved in, and he assured me it would not. Now so much has gone back to being the way it used to be when he was abusing me. He has stopped lavishing me with attention, does not want me to do same anymore, pushes my hands away, avoids my kiss, and is doing what I said I did not want to happen. We do not sit and talk for hours like we were before he came home.
He does not see any change. /He says that its because we now have other stuff to do too. Okay, so we did before he moved in too. nothing has changed there, life is here now just as it was then. The only difference is he is home now. Those hours we spent together loving, talking before he came home, are still there, just that he is different and we do not do those things anymore. And it has only been 2 qweeks! I know people say things change when you move in or get married, but 2 weeks after! And this is a pattern with him, in our past, I see it.
This is killing me, and I feel so hurt, so depressed, so sad and angry at him because I feel like the 4 months he wooed me was a manipulation to get me to let him come home. Because he is still the same as before I left him, but this time it hurts 50 times more. Some things he is keeping up, like his meetings and DA class, but everything else has changee.
He acts like it is just me being spoiled and needy, but how am I supposed to feel when he suddenlly stops being everything I love, and becomes this withholding, rejecting man from before?
So am I being unreasonable, or is he being abusive again? I know it hurts like heck
It doesn't sound like you're being unreasonable at all! To me, the only difference between being friends and married (or a bf/gf situation), is affection and physical intamacy.
IMHO, if one of you sees a problem with the relationship, it doesn't matter what others think... there IS a problem, because it causes conflict within the relationship.
I am probably not the best person to be giving my opinion, though... I have gone through the same sort of abuse you speak of.
CAt, this guy is NOT going to change. He is an abusive, controlling jerk. In your shoes, I would lose him for good
Remember the ol Paul Simon song?
You just slip out the back, Jack Make a new plan, Stan You don't need to be coy, Roy Just get yourself free Hop on the bus, Gus You don't need to discuss much Just drop off the key, Lee And get yourself free
Best of good wishes to you,
Diva
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I dont' know your whole story and I am in no position to tell you (or anyone for that matter) what to do. I will, however, share a little about myself.
I left my X because I felt like he was not loving or affectionate enough. I always felt lonely and rejected. I would tell him what I needed and he would try - but it wouldn't last but a couple of days. After a while I thought, if he has to TRY that hard to love me - it must be because he doesn't love me. So, after years of being in what I thought was a relatively loveless (lonely, and depressive) relationship (but in no way was he ever abusive, physically or even emotionally) I finally decided to leave him. He was a great person (he was not an alcoholic - just a workaholic), but he just couldn't give me what I needed to feel loved and be happy.
At that time, I did not have Alanon in my life. If I had, I most likely would NOT have left him because since going to alanon and working the steps I have learned that NOBODY can give me what I need to be happy - only I can do that and right now - NOT EVEN ME!
My expectations were unrealistic. It was not his job to make me feel loved and safe and secure. It was my job. That poor man jumped through hoops trying to figure out exactly what it was that I needed to be happy. He never could. THe hell that I put him through. For that I am truly sorry and I owe him an amends. Cat, our situations are probably quite different - especially since you mentioned that your guy is an alcoholic and has a hisotry of physical abuse. I am only suggesting that perhaps there is some degree of TOO HIGH AN EXPECTATION on your part.
In this program we are supposed to "look at our part" in the problem because that is the ONLY thing we have control over - it is the only thing that we can change. So, just think about your NEED - maybe just maybe you are being a little too needy - maybe you are looking to the wrong person to meet that need. Love and affection needs to come from within FIRST.
My heart goes out to you because - while I am able to think about this more clearly that before and I am aware of my own neediness... I still struggle with being clingy ~ the only difference is ~ my new husband (who has been in recovery for nearly 13 years ~ he won't "own" my issue of insecurity and will place it squarely in my lap if need be - reminding me that my happiness is ultimately MY responsibility.
It is not easy - but thank GOD I only have to deal with all of this one day at a time ~ and sometimes just one hour at a time.
Cat - take care of you - YOU deserve to be happy and it starts with you.
So AH just left to go to work. After he got home this am from his domestic abuse class, we talked about everything I wrote in the above post.
I do not know if you both have ead my other topics, but I had felt prior to his coming back home that he had made tremendous progress toward change, recognised his abusive ways, and he had actually started doing the things he had previously not done. Such as show empathy, which he is still doing, listening, which he still does when I try to talk about this stuff. I have been thinking a lot the past few days, and when we talked earlier I came to the realization that it is I that needs to let go of the past.
I believe that I am somehow going back to the past. Like flashbacks, in people with post traumatic stress disorder. Its like actually being in the past event, although it may have been months or years ago. I am also a member of a verbal abuse forum on the net, and this is very comman for abuse victims it seems, and through all my researc, I previously came to the conclusion that I am suffering from PTSD resulting from abuse. This is also very comman in abuse victims. Since the flashbacks are a symptom of PTSD it seems reasonable to me that this is what is happening. I mean AH is not being abusive like he was in the past, he is still doing all he did before, just not as much as before. I think that when he kept my hand away from him this morning he just maybe was not in the mood to be touched. He does have that right, just as we have the right not to be touched if we do not want to be. I know there will be times when he honestly does not want to be touched, not that he is withholding. I am not making excuses for him, I never have, but I do think that I have a lot of healing to do in order to not be triggered by everything.
I read a post on the abuse board by another abused woman who is living with her abuser, with the abuser actively recognizing and changing his abusive patterns. He too has stopped being abusive, some men can stop. She too said that little things trigger her and when they do she feels the hurt all aver again. He is not being abusive to her now, but sometimes she said something he does will trigger some memory of abuse in the past. she said she tries to remember that it was the past but that it was hard not to think it was happening again. I think this is what is happening with me, things are triggering me, that are not abusive, but it causes me to flashback to the time it was abusive. In order to be abusive a behavior must be repeated over time, and the things that have been triggering me have been very few. Mostly I think its all this left over stuff in my mind that is causing me so many problems, the fear he will abuse again. And in the 4 months we were apart seeing each other, he not once became abusive. In fact he was doing things he had never done, like the empathy he now has.
I am trying to look at all of this logically, and not place blame on anyone, or myself. When I think bout all this I realize that he is still the same as before he moved back home, but that it is I who is being triggered when he does not respond to every affection from me the way I think he should everytime. Then when this happens I withdraw and feel hurt, which I can see hurts him because he does not know what he has done. Like yesterday, I had all this stuff in my head and I was not affectionate toward him at all. he asked me what was bothering me, but I would not talk about it. I could see the hurt in his eyes, he was miserable, because I was miserable thinking that he was being abusive again. So its like a vicious circle it seems. He was miserable because I was being distant and withdrawn, because I had been triggered by something in the past, not the present. And the thing that this triggering is is really doing is bringing out all this fear in me that he will start withholding again. This fear is telling me he is doing it again, and its what is causing me to feel so hurt. Because my mind is doing this to me, not his behavior, my fears and my past pain are triggering me.
So how do I get over all of this and move on? Will I ever heal to the point that every little thing does not trigger all the fear and pain of the past? Will I ever be able to really enjoy my husband and our life without always being afraid?
While i agree that there ARE ppl who can be too needy, because of unresolved issues... I think that it is not an unreasonable request that a married couple be physically intimate. If a person does not show that they love you, it is only eventual (imho) that the person not being SHOWN love (or at least in a way that they understand as love) starts to FEEL unloved. I also think that discussing your language of love (which from the sounds of it, Cat's might be affection) is prudent.
One spouse could be doing things for the other (like dishes, fixing things...) or giving presents ~ thinking all the while that they are showing the other spouse that they love them... while the other spouse does not understand this as showing love and "speaks" by way of affection.
Sometimes all that is needed is to comunicate in eachother's own language.
... and sometimes they will never understand your language and you need to leave before you start believing that you are unlovable.
Dee What you said reminds me of me. I find myself being needy and clingy, I just attributed it to the past abuse, his emotional and physical withholding of affection. I was needy clingy before too, when he was actively abusive, out of need for his affection, and the feeling of rejection this caused me. And because he would throw out crumbs every now and then, in the past, and I clung to those crumbs but they only left me feeling more hurt. Its kind of like someone having a pet that they feed every now and then, maybe a few crumbs from the table, and then make them beg for more, all the while knowing how much pain they are in because of the way you are treating them. Thats how withholding feels. It makes you needy and clingy. Out of fear. Fear of complete rejection, and the crumbs are like just a taste leaving you starving for more. Its a very cruel way some abusers try to control.
now, he is not actively abusing, he has stopped it all, but my mind remembers the past abuse, fears it will return and every little thing triggers my neediness again, my fears and ,my pain.
When we talked about this before he left for work, he tried to reassure me that he would never withhold from me again. I mean withhold in the abusive way. He held me, and listened to me, something he did not do in his abusive days when I tried to talk to him. Now he sees me, and feels with me, he never did before. He gets frustrated at times because he is trying to understand but it only lasts for a moment, and he keeps it to himself, but I can see he gets frustrated because he does not want me to feel hurt. He told me the other day that he could not stand to see me hurting because he did not know what to do or say. He realizes that I have a lot of left over hurt from the abuse and he tries to be sensitive to this. He is and has tried very hard to be a better person and husband. Like your H, he is doing all he can to show mw that I can trust him again, and like your H must have felt too, he feels frustrated at times because he feels like its not working.
Anyway just wanted to say thanks for you reply, I posted again above and it relates a lot to what you wrote.
I agree with what you said too. I am a person that needs alot of affection and I like to give it in return. And he does need to understand that I need this from him in order to feel loved by him. He also said to me what you said, that fixing the car, cooking etc showed his love too, but to me its the affection that does it for me. I guess it is just that it seems to come more from ones heart, it requires personal intimacy, and intimacy both emotional and physical is what shows love to me.
Yes I have and still am in counseling. AH and I have sessions together with his AA sponser who is also a clinical counselor, also a past abuser. I also attend Ala-non regularly. Our Ts wife is in my Alanon group. She knows too what I have been through, her H and mine are a lot alike. AH has faithfully done all T has told him to do, and he is working hard on his recovery. T told me privately that AH has not, up until this last time, been really willing to work on himself. T told me that he sees in H something he did not see in him ever before. T was AHs sponser in the distant past. Also, AH has been completely honest with T about everything.
If it is for me, no, I do not have a counselor seperate from the sessions with our T, although I have spoken to T about issues without AH present, and can anytime I need to. I feel like I really need to talk to T this week about the things in my posts, so he can address them with AH alone. We have this agreement among us. That I can speak with T alone about issues that concern me, without AH being involved. T remains objective, and does not take sides. I have talked with him enough to know that he will do what needs to be done or said to AH. He is tough, and does not play. He has 17 years sober, was an abuser, and he is now a counselor who works with alcoholics and their families. So I am in good hands with T and I trust him. AH trusts him too and will do what he tells him to do.
This is my opinion, verenda, take what you would like and leave the rest.
I say get your OWN therapist that has nothing to do with your relationship counseling, AA, Al-anon, sponsorship, DV/DA, etc. This whole therapy/AA/DV/sponsor thing with all of you together sounds way too cozy (to me). How could any of you get any kind of real perspective? How can any of you even breathe?? I see red flags.
Something is not quite right with this picture, therapeutically. You going to him, telling him whatever and then him telling your AH is not really the way its supposed to go...you need someone who is going to be tough on YOU so that you can get your own head screwed on right.
The whole point of al-anon is to focus on yourself, not on him, not on your relationship, not on anything else but yourself. Getting your own therapist with your own appointments totally separate from the swirling sea you appear to be in will help you to do this and might help you to significantly get some real perspective which it seems like you need.
